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so it has to do with certain trends than being westernized or not.

It's that they managed to maintain their culture in a select (limited) number of areas. In all others, they were subjected to westernization and nowadays are falling prey to globalization.
 
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it consist of shahadah . also we also read several quranic sura after that . so the Shahada is technically will be spoken in the ear of newborn

so you admit they will be harassed because it take another Christin to baptize the convert.
so you once says nobody prevent them to convert , but you say no Christian allowed to convert a Muslim . can you explain how that Muslim if wants to convert can do that ? go abroad get converted there and then come back Iran ?


and your definition of gheyrat is different from mine . to me its not beating and arresting the converts . its to introduce the religion how that people see its beauty and don't want to leave it what you suggest is equal to say we have a religion that people don't want and we have to force it on them.
sorry but I'll never accept your view of our religion

Sorry who is "we" and since when was someone else reciting shahada or duah constitute as a declaration of tawheed for the other person? Show me hadeeth and verses, not what you think. Need I remind you, you're no authority on Islam and, Just like me and Indos have done, we use scripture to argue our points. So I could literally say Shahada on behalf of Donald Trump and that would mean he said the Shahada and is now a Muslim? Lol

Not only do I admit it, I say that the Muslim ruler can take even more drastic measures than merely harrasing a non-believer preaching their filth in a Muslim country. How can the authorities prove the exact time and place a person has converted to Christianity? They can't, so Iranian can go wherever they want to apostate. But what the authorities can do is find the source of the preaching and put an end to it. I said Muslim leaders cant force non-believers to become Muslims, please learn to read what others have written. By the same measure a Muslim leader can stop a non-believer preaching their filth. They are seperate issues.

No, the role of the authority is to show Islam as it is, not as what Hack Hook thinks constitues beauty. No sugarcoating in Islam. If you think it is okay for a Christian to preach Christianity in a Muslim land, then it would be hypocritical of you to deny a Muslim ruler an attempt to refute this. This is why you have no gheyra, you allow Christians to convert but disallow authorities to stop them and to attempt to convert them back. You're a hypocrite pure and simple which has been made clear in previous threads.
 
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Hadith about people and the ruler is out of context. In general of course people should obey the ruler, that is common knowledge to make the society can grow and prophet Muhammad does understand about that.

We are discussing about your ruler system whether it is based on Islam or not

Who said wearing Hijab is extreme ? You makes lies over my statement ?

The extreme one is the enforcement of hijab by the state

Go read what has been written by God here and do you weigh khameini word is higher than God word ?

View attachment 882495


Quran

(9:31) They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilah (God – Allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).”
People should cooperate with ruler that does justice and chosen by them & not all rulers deserve it ... and why obedience? it gotta be 2 way roads ....
On the other hand there is an idea that Islam has got some laws that can not be done without forming a government so telling "The extreme one is the enforcement of hijab by the state" is somehow against this idea as we know prophet of Islam (pbuh) judged many cases and enforced the verdict ...
 
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It's that they managed to maintain their culture in a select (limited) number of areas. In all others, they were subjected to westernization and nowadays are falling prey to globalization.
when you get stuck , you made such outlandish claims . you first call all Europe and America continent as western culture , later when the difference pointed to you you claim they have individual culture and all are not the same ,
you always claimed these east Asian
countries as westernized , now you claim they are westernized in all aspect but some select area.
that's enough for me those some select area are enough you can be westernized but in some select area in this discussion and it has nothing to do with western culture but more with those some select area
Sorry who is "we" and since when was someone else reciting shahada or duah constitute as a declaration of tawheed for the other person? Show me hadeeth and verses, not what you think. Need I remind you, you're no authority on Islam and, Just like me and Indos have done, we use scripture to argue our points. So I could literally say Shahada on behalf of Donald Trump and that would mean he said the Shahada and is now a Muslim? Lol

Not only do I admit it, I say that the Muslim ruler can take even more drastic measures than merely harrasing a non-believer preaching their filth in a Muslim country. How can the authorities prove the exact time and place a person has converted to Christianity? They can't, so Iranian can go wherever they want to apostate. But what the authorities can do is find the source of the preaching and put an end to it. I said Muslim leaders cant force non-believers to become Muslims, please learn to read what others have written. By the same measure a Muslim leader can stop a non-believer preaching their filth. They are seperate issues.

No, the role of the authority is to show Islam as it is, not as what Hack Hook thinks constitues beauty. No sugarcoating in Islam. If you think it is okay for a Christian to preach Christianity in a Muslim land, then it would be hypocritical of you to deny a Muslim ruler an attempt to refute this. This is why you have no gheyra, you allow Christians to convert but disallow authorities to stop them and to attempt to convert them back. You're a hypocrite pure and simple which has been made clear in previous threads.

honestly you are another level then according to you La-Ekrah'-Fi-din is not true and now you claim your understanding of religion is above Quran itself
 
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when you get stuck , you made such outlandish claims .

You've been making outlandish claims from the start, such as working on the assumption that Chile isn't a culturally western country. Between Latin American nations, it is among those with the most limited influx of non-western culture and demographics, at the opposite spectrum of say, Brazil.

Which is not too surprising either, since other than the fact that present day Chile wasn't too densely populated in pre-Columbian times, Portuguese colonialists contrary to the Spaniards and despite a similar tendency to discriminate against people of color, nonetheless encouraged "ethnic" mixing to some degree. Hence why in places such as Mozambique, Angola or Cape Verde, one will find proportionally more people of mixed African-European descent than in the typical former French, British, Belgian, German or Spanish colony of Sub-Saharan Africa.

you first call all Europe and America continent as western culture , later when the difference pointed to you you claim they have individual culture and all are not the same ,

Wordplay with no relevance to the discussion at hand. Culture can be subdivided quasi ad infinitum, there is even a local and an infra-local level of culture. But when speaking of the historic abode of western culture, western and central Europe as a whole obviously belong to that ensemble, notwithstanding national, regional and local specificity.

What you're contending now is like saying that since each region in Iran has some cultural features of its own, there is no such thing as a national Iranian culture - which of course, would be nonsensical.

Likewise, it's nonsensical to deny the existence of a western cultural domain stretching from parts of the Americas to large swaths of the European continent and including Australia and New Zealand, in spite of whatever regional and local nuances one might find within this geographical area.

It's akin to the principle of subsidiarity.

you always claimed these east Asian
countries as westernized , now you claim they are westernized in all aspect but some select area.

You started out by claiming Japan and Korea are more westernized than Chile. That's like saying they're more westernized than Spain or Italy. Which is meaningless.

This is another case of you needlessly prolonging an argument just for the sake of it, since I'm pretty sure you understand my point very well.

It's simple indeed: although quite thoroughly westernized - and globalized too, Japan and Korea maintain some token elements of indigenous culture, which suffice to differentiate them from Chile, given that the latter is actually western from the cultural viewpoint.

Chile cannot have gotten westernized because it has been culturally western from the get go. Japan and Korea on the other hand have undergone westernization because originally, they were fully alien to western culture.
 
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You started out by claiming Japan and Korea are more westernized than Chile. That's like saying they're more westernized than Spain or Italy. Which is meaningless.
ok they are easternized ,next time you called them westernized i recall you this discussion
 
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ok they are easternized ,next time you called them westernized i recall you this discussion

Chile cannot have gotten westernized because it has been culturally western from the get go. Japan and Korea on the other hand have undergone westernization because originally, they were alien to western culture.
 
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@SalarHaqq you must first decide on your definition of western culture , not all European and American have the same culture first decide what is western culture
 
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@SalarHaqq you must first decide on your definition of western culture , not all European and American have the same culture first decide what is western culture

Their common denominator. Either way, the fact remains that the assertion according to which Japan and Korea are more westernized than Chile is meaningless.
 
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Their common denominator. But no matter how one will define it, the fact remains that it doesn't make much sense to say Japan and Korea are more westernized than Chile.
so you have no definition for what western culture is , what is westernization only use the word left and right because you think it give weight to the posts you make o_O
now another question for you , what is the difference btween a western culture and eastern culture , hope at least you have a line to differentiate them
 
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so you have no definition for what western culture is , what is westernization

If you are ignorant of what the concept of culture is referring to, open an encyclopaedia. Or better yet, a social science manual.

only use the word left and right because you think it give weight to the posts you make o_O

False, you are the one who started using the term westernization here in reference to Chile, Japan and Korea. Considerin the question you're now formulating, I've to conclude you're uttering terms whose meaning you're unfamiliar with.

now another question for you , what is the difference btween a western culture and eastern culture , hope at least you have a line to differentiate them

Everything was addressed previously. In case of comprehension issues, read again.

Arguing Japan and Korea are more westernized than Chile makes no sense, as demonstrated above.
 
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If you are ignorant of what the concept of culture is referring to, open an encyclopaedia.



Answered already.

Irregardless of semantics, the fact remains that arguing Japan and Korea are more westernized than Chile makes no sense, as demonstrated above.
no answer and no definition
 
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