Iranians vs Arabs - The Dilemma for the Muslim World

[U-571]

I think there needs to be a new word for Secularism in Pakistan because apparently the word has been completely hijacked. 90% of the people who oppose secularism don't even know what exactly the word means and some how associate it with Atheism. Even on these boards there are many people who are like.. 'Secularism no way we don't want Atheism'

you mean all the pakistanis who oppose the secular are uneducated abt it and you the only one are the only knowledegable one??? pakistanis dont consider secularism as aitheism, but for pakistan religion islam is a complete code of life, making religion separate from the affairs of an islamic state is like saying that human being doesnt require heart to live..

and i know you as a strict ardent western follower, so we dont want you to lecture us pakistanis about what is rigt and whats wrong, happy living in the west mind your own business you are canadian and not pakistani!!

 

[muse]

The only place for Pakistan and in fact most of the world is to get the heck out of the tent if they do start fighting. Lets face it no matter which side you pick to support they will not remember long any assistance but the other side would forever brand you as apostate for an attack on the Ummah.

New Zealand is far, far away and the past is not the future -- Pakistan is connected to both Iran and Arabia, and while the Wahabi are no representative of the Sunni, except by virtue of the $$ they bring, Pakistan, with all it's warts, faults and everything else need not take sides, it must however voice it's concern loudly and it must say that it is motivated not by any side except that of conscience.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

assalam alaikum
i dont know if this thread is talking about arabs or just saudies. saudi populations is around 20 million. Saudia is not the biggest arabic country in population and nor it presenst the arab nationality.
This is the 1st time i know that shia in kuwait r in majority also in qatar.
In iraq if we combine the sunni arabs and kurds ( more then 90 % of kurds r sunnies) they will come up more then the shia population of iraq.

TARIQ

 

[Pasban]

assalam alaikum
In iraq if we combine the sunni arabs and kurds ( more then 90 % of kurds r sunnies) they will come up more then the shia population of iraq.

TARIQ

That isn't true and it reflects your lack of knowledge of the demographics of the state. The Kurds do not account for a major segment of the total population of Iraq. The bulk of the Iraqi population on the other hand is also situated in the south. Most independent sources inclusive of errors estimate 35-40% of population is of the Sunn'ite school, inclusive of the Kurds, with the remainder following the Shi'a.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

assalam alaikum,
still 40% minority is big number eventhough according to the ppl i know sunnier r in majority (which i trust more then the number given by others ) but kuwait and qatar r shia majority countries.

TARIQ

 

[muse]

Bahrain is also a Shi'ah majority nation -- and if the variety of Shi'ah in Pakistan are all lumped together than suggestions of a Sunni majority would be difficult to make with confidence.

 

[Cyrus the Great]

i think as much as pakistani's and bharati's bark at each other iranians and arabs can match us, if not surpass us.

the arabs looks like they are more likely to mobilise for a fight against the iranians than they are the israeli's - go figure?


but my question is why should pakistani's tolerate it - both countries claim to be islamic, in fact hyper islamic - yet how is it that islam is forgotten and historical grudges based on race become the issue - in that sense this hyper islam is nothing more than a front, a pseudo islam.

my contention is that a unified islam world will bring greater prosperity for the islamic world (and pakistan)- an islamic world that is being pulled apart by its two poles is causing great damage to the region - and pakistan is slap bang in the middle

why do a lot of arabs and iranians pretend that they care about islamic unity when they can barely get on with one another?

This is not the matter of Iran and Arabs but it is matter of Arab and Ajam, as long as Arabs consider non Arabs as second hand muslim, problem is on the ground

 

[Cyrus the Great]

Yes I also agree that it would benefit all Muslims if all Muslims got along with each other, but the enemies of Muslims will never allow it to happen. They will always find a way to drive a wedge between Muslims.

I'm all for Muslim unity.

I guess maybe both sides have some mistakes, but i think Iran does tactical mistake and Saudi strategic, as long as Saudi is Puppet of Muslim's big enemy Iran and Saudi can not have stable and long term strategic relation, while i do believe cooperation between two countries is very beneficial and necessary for muslim world.

 

[Cyrus the Great]

Persians,Turks and Arabs were rivals before any of them became muslim...and they still are rivals.

before Islam not Arab civilization exist, only arab clan , and turky was part of Persian civilization. issues occurred when arabs invated Iran and behaved them like slaves, and tried to impose arab culture in the name of islamic culture.

 

[Cyrus the Great]

The US supports Arabs overtly and Iran covertly, what the US has done in Iraq and Afghanistan has indirectly strengthened the Iranian position.
The Iranians maintain there links secretly with Israel and US specifically and perhaps solely on the basis of there different Religious values from those of Arabs. And there are significant amount of people in US who view the corrupt and Power Hungry Shia Clergy in Iran as a strategic asset...!!!!

this is not the matter of Mazhab i guess, as fact Iran support Palestine with no single Shia there, it is historical and political issue here.
one example arabs paid $98b to Iraq against Iran in imposed war and help Saddam kill Iranian solders and civilian.I think any nation can forgive such help to their enemy. can you?

 

[Cyrus the Great]

Here is a link to back that up in case someone doesn't believe you

Israeli support for Iran during the Iran?Iraq war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

as I know US made this scenario for refueling the airplane to help recognition of Israel by Iran but did not succeed

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Bahrain is also a Shi'ah majority nation -- and if the variety of Shi'ah in Pakistan are all lumped together than suggestions of a Sunni majority would be difficult to make with confidence.

Sunnis are a majority obviously... Indonesia is mostly sunni... So is African Muslim land as well...

 

[Jigs]

before Islam not Arab civilization exist, only arab clan , and turky was part of Persian civilization. issues occurred when arabs invated Iran and behaved them like slaves, and tried to impose arab culture in the name of islamic culture.

Negative on the turkey was part of Persian civilization part we came out of Mongolia as Khazars and Seljuks tribes. Turks and Mongols both originated from Mongolia in the 6th century.

 

[lonelyone]

Thought I am a "Sunni", I admire Iran far, far more than the Arabs. Iran has the best universities in the Islamic world today, it makes its own fighter jets(without help from China), and has sent satellites to space.

This "Shia-Sunni" thing is a non-issue. Shias and Sunnis are absolutely the same, just except for their view of history.

Let us sum up the achievements of both sides:

1. Iran:
-Survived the Iraqi invasion, with all the wealth of the Arabs, and the USA firmly behind Iraq.
-Successfully recovered economically from the war.
-Successfully tackled human development challenges. Reduced birth rates, ensured education for all, ensured industrialisation, ensured a good economy.
- Largest car producer in the Middle East, large steel producer, etc.
-Defies world sanctions, develops its own ships, aircraft, etc.
- Best universities in the Muslim world, currently, they win many international competitions.
- Sends satellites to space, being the world's 7th country to do so.
- Very good healthcare, with all citizens covered.
- Ideologically independent.

Now let us compare Saudi Arabia:
1. Funding madrassas, where students are taught that magnets point towards Mecca, not the North
3. No industry
4. No good Universities
5. Lazy people
6. Corruption
7. Exports Terrorism around the world
8. Treats non-Arabs as slaves(even Muslim Pakistanis or Bangladeshis)
9. Depends on the West for everything
10. Fought against the Ottoman Caliphate, on the side of the British
11. Supported Saddam against Iran, in a pointless war, which caused thousands of deaths and suffering for Iran.
12. Lapdog of the West, totally dependent on them for everything
13. Kings oppress their people, go on luxurious trips to Europe, drinking and whoring away their time.
etc, etc, etc.

So, despite being a "Sunni", I firmly support Iran, and wish them all the success.

 

[lonelyone]

All the problems of the Muslim world can be traced to Saudi Arabia and the Wahhabis. I'll be glad to see the day the KSA and all the Arab countries become Republics.