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Iranian Vessels Harass U.S. Destroyer, Forces It To Change Course

bg2599_map1600px.ashx

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...-of-Hormuz-IRAN-OMAN-and-the-right-to-transit
http://www.heritage.org/research/re...ary-to-secure-us-navigational-rights-freedoms

For those expounding the Iran doesn't recognize UNCLOS, please take not that the 12nmi territorial zone is the result of UNCLOS. So either Iran does (or does not) recognize UNCLOS and can (or can not) claim no a 12nmi territorial zone.

Legitimate naval action in peacetime is limited to protection of territorial waters i.e. to prevent hostile incursions.


You don't seem to realize that all this IS about legalisms. See what diplomatic exchanges consist of.

Close Hormuz, of interferie with commercial shipping (which harrassing US ships will ultimately do) and not just US but EU, China and many many others will come down on Iran. Keep up the threat, and eventually an alternative to the current situation will be found, whether in alternative routing, buiding a canal, or pipelines.

How silly of me to not know about national interest. I must be silly or thick or both.

You have a great day now.
Really?,and just what will they do pray tell?,a toothless resolution?,perhaps sanctions?,been there done that with the nuclear issue and despite un security council demands for iran to stop enriching and dismantle its nuclear program iran ignored them,oh and in order to actually get sanctions going the security council would have to agree unanimously,good luck with that anytime soon.Now as for the straits of hormuz you really should look at those maps you seem so fond of posting,for a start there are only a couple of deep water channels for the tankers and these are not only easily mined but are also within range of irans antiship weapons/ fire control now you could try re routing but the geography of the straits allows iran to mine them and to target any of these potential alternate routes with antiship weapons from three different directions at once,now as for building a canal,which personally I think is just a bad saudi joke it still faces the same problem and that is the reach of irans antiship weapons not to mention that a canal would be even more vulnerable than a deep water channel imagine if a tanker was mined or sunk during transit good luck clearing that blockage,lastly pipelines,the saudis and uae have built pipelines to try and get around hormuz but these are expensive,have limited capacity and would be even more vulnerable than canals and shipping channels in the event of conflict.So really for the foreseeable future there is no alternative to the straits or to irans very real capability to dominate/close them if it wishes,the smart thing is not to give iran a reason to do that,pretty simple really.
"How silly of me to not know about national interest. I must be silly or thick or both."
Well since you did seem to be ignoring it in favor of repeating tired old legalisms I did begin to wonder,soo..
 
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Oh, I see, you're of the might makes right variety. Thanks for your generous contribution. If you have any objections to my post, feel free to use the report button or to add me to your ignore list.

You have a nice day now.:wave:


If you want the rules of war to apply, you have to declare such. If you don't then peacetime rules apply.
Well the key point is, Innocent passage. in straight of hormoz every ship had to pass through Iran and omman territorial water,so they better introduce themselves and intention to this two country authorities when they enter their territorial waters to prove their passage is peaceful and for example they are not spying .

By the way I guess in wartime there be no passage at all.
 
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I should stop this alledged "non-sense"? :crazy:

Source https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewD...g_no=XXI-6&chapter=21&Temp=mtdsg3&clang=_en#1

LAW OF THE SEA
United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, Montego Bay, 10 December 1982

Entry into force: 16 November 1994, in accordance with article 308(1).

Registration :16 November 1994, No. 31363

Status: Signatories : 157. Parties : 168.1
Endnote 1 In accordance with Article 4 of the Agreement relating to the implementation of Part XI of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea of 10 December 1982 which reads as follows: "After the adoption of this Agreement, any instrument of ratification or formal confirmation of or accession to the Convention shall also represent consent to be bound by this Agreement."

[Hence more parties than signatories. The implication is that UNCLOS does not apply only to states signatories but to both states signatories and states parties. States do not have to be a signatory to be a party. See e.g. the entry for 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ' below, or for Germany in the webpage text]

Note: The Convention was adopted by the Third United Nations Conference on the Law of the Sea and opened for signature, together with the Final Act of the Conference, at Montego Bay, Jamaica, on 10 December 1982. The Conference was convened pursuant to resolution 3067 (XXVIII)2 adopted by the General Assembly on 16 November 1973. The Conference held eleven sessions, from 1973 to 1982, as follows:
- First session: United Nations Headquarters, New York, 3 to 15 December 1973;
- Second session: Parque Central, Caracas, 20 June to 29 August 1974;
- Third session: United Nations Office at Geneva, 17 March to 9 May 1975;
- Fourth session: United Nations Headquarters, New York, 15 March to 7 May 1976;
- Fifth session: United Nations Headquarters, New York, 2 August to 17 September 1976;
- Sixth session: United Nations Headquarters, New York, 23 May to 15 July 1977;
- Seventh session: United Nations Office at Geneva, 28 March to 19 May 1978;
- Resumed seventh session: United Nations Headquarters, New York, 21 August to 15 September 1978;
- Eighth session: United Nations Office at Geneva, 19 March to 27 April 1979;
- Resumed eighth session: United Nations Headquarters, New York, 19 July to 24 August 1979;
- Ninth session: United Nations Headquarters, New York, 3 March to 4 April 1980;
- Resumed ninth session: United Nations Office at Geneva, 28 July to 29 August 1980;
- Tenth session: United Nations Headquarters, New York, 9 March to 24 April 1981;
- Resumed tenth session: United Nations Office at Geneva, 3 to 28 August 1981;
- Eleventh session: United Nations Headquarters, New York, 8 March to 30 April 1982;
- Resumed eleventh session: United Nations Headquarters, New York, 22 to 24 September 1982;
- Final Part of the eleventh session: Montego Bay, Jamaica, 6 to 10 December 1982.
The Conference also adopted a Final Act3 with, annexed thereto, nine resolutions and a statement of understanding. The text of the Final Act has been reproduced as document A/CONF.62/121 and Corr. 1 to 8.

Endnote 3: The Final Act was signed, in each instance, on 10 December 1982:
"In the name of the following States:
Algeria, Angola, Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bhutan, Botswana, Brazil, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic, Cameroon, Canada, Cape Verde, Chad, Chile, China, Colombia, Congo, Costa Rica, Cuba, Cyprus, Czechoslovakia, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Democratic Yemen, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Fiji, Finland, France, Gabon, Gambia, German Democratic Republic, Germany (Federal Republic of), Ghana, Greece, Grenada, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Holy See, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran (Islamic Republic of), Iraq, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Ivory Coast, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kenya, Kuwait, Lao People's Democratic Republic, Lesotho, Liberia, Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Monaco, Mongolia, Morocco, Mozambique, Nauru, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Papua, New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Korea, Romania, Rwanda, Saint-Lucia, Saint-Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, Senegal, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somalia, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Tuvalu, Uganda, Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United Republic of Tanzania, United States of America, Uruguay, Vanuatu, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Yugoslavia, Zaire, Zambia, Zimbabwe; ...
[Remarkable! United States does appear in Final Act (even if it didn't sign)]

Participant / Signature / Succession to signature(d) Formal confirmation(c), Accession(a), Succession(d), Ratification

Coastal states in the Persian Gulf and/or along the Strait of Hormuz

Bahrain /10 Dec 1982 /30 May 1985
Iran (Islamic Republic of) / 10 Dec 1982 / -
Iraq /10 Dec 1982 /30 Jul 1985
Kuwait /10 Dec 1982 / 2 May 1986
Oman 1 Jul 1983 / 17 Aug 1989
Qatar / 27 Nov 1984 / 9 Dec 2002
Saudi Arabia / 7 Dec 1984 / 24 Apr 1996
United Arab Emirates / 10 Dec 1982 / -
Yemen / 10 Dec 1982 /21 Jul 1987

Countries with SSN/SSBN and/or CV(N)
China /10 Dec 1982 / 7 Jun 1996
European Union / 7 Dec 1984 / 1 Apr 1998 c < in addition to / over and above individual EU memberstates
France* /10 Dec 1982 /11 Apr 1996

India / 10 Dec 1982 / 29 Jun 1995
Russian Federation / 10 Dec 1982 / 12 Mar 1997
United Kingdom of Great Britain* and Northern Ireland / - / 25 Jul 1997 a

*As a Member of the European Community, states have transferred competence to the Community in respect of certain matters governed by the Convention. A detailed declaration on the nature and extent of the competence to the European Community will be made in due course in accordance with the provisions of Annex IX of the Convention.


I'll come back to that shortly.


You said NUCLEAR vessels. Look it up your original post (as I did).


So, essentially you can't counter than besides the one instance you found and the one instance I gratiously added (both in the period 2000-2015 in one of the worlds busiest and narrowest straits) there were no collisions between a nuclear vessel and another vessel. I added that one instance after having searched broadly on any collisions involving USN ships in general, and CVN and SS(B)N in particular, and found this to be the only 2 cases in the past 15 years in the Strait of Hormuz, the area we were discussing. Those instances were US SSN versus a US LPD and versus a Japanse merchant respectively. No nuclear spillage or other dangers related to nuclear propulsion happened. Certainly no CVNs involved in these collisions (or any others in this area). DUring the same period, there were 2 more incidents involving US SSN in the Persian Gulf in the same period. In all, that puts your MANY CASES of NUCLEAR VESSELS claim in the proper perspective.

STATEMENTS AND DECLARATIONS
Source: https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewD...g_no=XXI-6&chapter=21&Temp=mtdsg3&clang=_en#2

United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea Montego Bay, 10 December 1982
Declarations and Reservations

(Unless otherwise indicated, the declarations and reservations were made upon ratification, formal confirmation, accession or succession.)

Iran (Islamic Republic of)

Upon signature (10 December 1982):
Interpretative declaration on the subject of straits

"In accordance with article 310 of the Convention on the Law of the Sea, the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran seizes the opportunity at this solemn moment of signing the Convention, to place on the records its "understanding" in relation to certain provisions of the Convention. The main objective for submitting these declarations is the avoidance of eventual future interpretation of the following articles in a manner incompatible with the original intention and previous positions or in disharmony with national laws and regulations of the Islamic Republic of Iran. It is, . . . , the understanding of the Islamic Republic of Iran that:

1) Notwithstanding the intended character of the Convention being one of general application and of law making nature, certain of its provisions are merely product of quid pro quo which do not necessarily purport to codify the existing customs or established usage (practice) regarded as having an obligatory character. Therefore, it seems natural and in harmony with article 34 of the 1969 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, that only states parties to the Law of the Sea Convention shall be entitled to benefit from the contractual rights created therein.
[that would include e.g. United Kingdom]

The above considerations pertain specifically (but not exclusively) to the following:

-- The right of Transit passage through straits used for international navigation (Part III, Section 2, article 38).

-- The notion of "Exclusive Economic Zone" (Part V). - All matters regarding the International Seabed Area and the Concept of "Common Heritage of mankind" (Part XI).

2) In the light of customary international law, the provisions of article 21, read in association with article 19 (on the Meaning of Innocent Passage) and article 25 (on the Rights of Protection of the Coastal States), recognize (though implicitly) the rights of the Coastal States to take measures to safeguard their security interests including the adoption of laws and regulations regarding, inter alia , the requirements of prior authorization for warships willing to exercise the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea.

3) The right referred to in article 125 regarding access to and from the sea and freedom of transit of Land-locked States is one which is derived from mutual agreement of States concerned based on the principle of reciprocity.

4) The provisions of article 70, regarding "Right of States with Special Geographical Characteristics" are without prejudice to the exclusive right of the Coastal States of enclosed and semi-enclosed maritime regions (such as the Persian Gulf and the Sea of Oman) with large population predominantly dependent upon relatively poor stocks of living resources of the same regions.

5) Islets situated in enclosed and semi-enclosed seas which potentially can sustain human habitation or economic life of their own, but due to climatic conditions, resource restriction or other limitations, have not yet been put to development, fall within the provisions of paragraph 2 of article 121 concerning "Regime of Islands", and have, therefore, full effect in boundary delimitation of various maritime zones of the interested Coastal States.

Furthermore, with regard to "Compulsory Procedures Entailing Binding Decisions" the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, while fully endorsing the Concept of settlement of all international disputes by peaceful means, and recognizing the necessity and desirability of settling, in an atmosphere of mutual understanding and cooperation, issues relating to the interpretation and application of the Convention on the Law of the Sea, at this time will not pronounce on the choice of procedures pursuant to articles 287 and 298 and reserves its positions to be declared in due time."


United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Upon accession (25 July 1997):


(a) General

The United Kingdom cannot accept any declaration or statement made or to be made in the future which is not in conformity with articles 309 and 310 of the Convention. Article 309 of the Convention prohibits reservations and exceptions (except those expressly permitted by other articles of the Convention). Under article 310 declarations and statements made by a State cannot exclude or modify the legal effect of the provisions of the Convention in their application to the State concerned.


The United Kingdom considers that declarations and statements not in conformity with articles 309 and 310 include, inter alia, the following:


  • - those which relate to baselines not drawn in conformity with the Convention;

    - those which purport to require any form of notification or permission before warships or other ships exercise the right of innocent passage or freedom of navigation or which otherwise purport to limit navigational rights in ways not permitted by the Convention;

    - those which are incompatible with the provisions of the Convention relating to straits used for international navigation, including the right of transit passage;


    - those which are incompatible with the provisions of the Convention relating to archipelagic states or waters, including archipelagic baselines and archipelagic sea lanes passage;


    - those which are not in conformity with the provisions of the Convention relating to the exclusive economic zone or the continental shelf, including those which claim coastal state jurisdiction over all installations and structures in the exclusive economic zone or on the continental shelf, and those which purport to require consent for exercises or manoeuvres (including weapons exercises) in those areas;
    - those which purport to subordinate the interpretation or application of the Convention to national laws and regulations, including constitutional provisions.
(b) European Community
The United Kingdom recalls that, as a Member of the European Community, it has transferred competence to the Community in respect of certain matters governed by the Convention. A detailed declaration on the nature and extent of the competence to the European Community will be made in due course in accordance with the provisions of Annex IX of the Convention.


(c) The Falkland Islands

With regard to paragraph (d) of the Declaration made upon ratification of the Convention by the Government of the Argentine Republic, the Government of the United Kingdom has no doubt about the sovereignty of the United Kingdom over the Falkland Islands and over South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands. The Government of the United Kingdom, as the administering authority of both Territories, has extended the United Kingdom's accession to the Convention and ratification of the Agreement to the Falkland Islands and to South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands. The Government of the United Kingdom, therefore, rejects as unfounded paragraph (d) of the Argentine declaration.

(d) Gibraltar
With regard to point 2 of the declaration made upon ratification of the Convention by the Government of Spain, the Government of the United Kingdom has no doubt about the sovereignty of the United Kingdom over Gibraltar, including its territorial waters. The Government of the United Kingdom, as the administering authority of Gibraltar, has extended the United Kingdom's accession to the Convention and ratification of the Agreement to Gibraltar. The Government of the United Kingdom, therefore, rejects as unfounded point 2 of the Spanish declaration.

(e) Extent
These instruments of accession and of ratification extend to:
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
The Bailiwick of Jersey
The Bailiwick of Guernsey
The Isle of Man
Anguilla
Bermuda
British Antarctic Territory
British Indian Ocean Territory
British Virgin Islands
Cayman Islands
Falkland Islands
Gibraltar
Montserrat
Pitcairn, Henderson, Ducie and Oeno Islands
St. Helena and Dependencies
South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands
Turks and Caicos Islands
Declaration made after accession

12 January 1998

Declaration on the choice of procedure under article 287

In accordance with Article 287, paragraph 1, of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland chooses the International Court of Justice for the settlement of disputes concerning the interpretation or application of the Convention.

The International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea is a new institution, which the United Kingdom hopes will make an important contribution to the peaceful settlement of disputes concerning the law of the sea. In addition to those cases where the Convention itself provides for the compulsory jurisdiction of the Tribunal, the United Kingdom remains ready to consider the submission of disputes to the Tribunal as may be agreed on a case-by-case basis.

7 April 2003
Declaration pursuant to article 298, paragraph 1 of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea:


".....the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland does not accept any of the procedures provided for in section 2 of Part XV of the Convention with respect to the categories of disputes referred to in paragraph 1(b) and (c) of article 298."

BOTH THESE STATES PARTIES ADDED A STATEMENT UPON SIGNING
NEITHER FILED OBJECTIONS.

See: Objections (Unless otherwise indicated, the objections were received upon ratification, formal confirmation, accession or succession.)

So, what would be the legal position of Iran and UK be if a UK SSN or its new QE aircraft carrier passed through the Strait of Hormuz?

ABOUT THE LEGAL STATUS OF DECLARATIONS AND STATEMENTS
SOURCE: http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/convention_declarations.htm


Introduction:


Article 310 of the Convention allows States and entities to make declarations or statements regarding its application at the time of signing, ratifying or acceding to the Convention, which do not purport to exclude or modify the legal effect of the provisions of the Convention.

Article 310 reads:

  • "Article 310. Declarations and statements "Article 309 does not preclude a State, when signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention, from making declarations or statements, however phrased or named, with a view, inter alia, to the harmonization of its laws and regulations with the provisions of this Convention, provided that such declarations or statements do not purport to exclude or to modify the legal effect of the provisions of this Convention in their application to that State."
Article 287, paragraph 1, provides that States and entities, when signing, ratifying or acceding to the Convention, or at any time thereafter, may make declarations specifying the forums for the settlement of disputes which they accept.

Article 287, paragraph 1, reads:

  • "Article 287. Choice of procedure "When signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention or at any time thereafter, a State shall be free to choose, by means of a written declaration, one or more of the following means for the settlement of disputes concerning the interpretation or application of this Convention:

    • (a) the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea established in accordance with Annex VI;
      (b) the International Court of Justice;
      (c) an arbitral tribunal constituted in accordance with Annex VII;
      (d) a special arbitral tribunal constituted in accordance with Annex VIII for one or more of the categories of disputes specified therein."
In addition, article 298, paragraph 1, allows States and entities to declare that they exclude the application of the compulsory binding procedures for the settlement of disputes under the Convention in respect of certain specified categories kinds of disputes. Article 298, paragraph 1, reads:


  • "Article 298. Optional exceptions to applicability of section 2


    • "1. When signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention or at any time thereafter, a State may, without prejudice to the obligations arising under section 1, declare in writing that it does not accept any one or more of the procedures provided for in section 2 with respect to one or more of the following categories of disputes:


      • (a)


        • (i) disputes concerning the interpretation or application of articles 15, 74 and 83 relating to sea boundary delimitations, or those involving historic bays or titles, provided that a State having made such a declaration shall, when such a dispute arises subsequent to the entry into force of this Convention and where no agreement within a reasonable period of time is reached in negotiations between the parties, at the request of any party to the dispute, accept submission of the matter to conciliation under Annex V, section 2; and provided further that any dispute that necessarily involves the concurrent consideration of any unsettled dispute concerning sovereignty or other rights over continental or insular land territory shall be excluded form such submission;
          (ii) after the conciliation commission has presented its report, which shall state the reasons on which it is based, the parties shall negotiate an agreement on the basis of that report; if these negotiations do not result in an agreement, the parties shall, by mutual consent, submit the question to one of the procedures provided for in section 2, unless the parties otherwise agree;
          (iii) this subparagraph does not apply to any sea boundary dispute finally settled by an arrangement between the parties, or to any such dispute which is to be settled in accordance with a bilateral or multilateral agreement binding upon those parties;
        (b) disputes concerning military activities, including military activities by government vessels and aircraft engaged in non-commercial service, and disputes concerning law enforcement activities in regard to the exercise of sovereign rights or jurisdiction excluded from the jurisdiction of a court or tribunal under article 297, paragraph 2 or 3;
        (c) disputes in respect of which the Security Council of the United Nations is exercising the functions assigned to it by the Charter of the United Nations, unless the Security Council decides to remove the matter from its agenda or calls upon the parties to settle it by the means provided for in this
        Convention."
PLEASE NOTE: Declarations and statements with respect to the Convention and to the Agreement on Part XI made before 31 December 1996 - upon signature, ratification or accession - have been analyzed and published in "The Law of the Sea: Declarations and statements with respect to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and to the Agreement relating to the Implementation of Part XI of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea", (United Nations publication, Sales No. E.97.V.3).

I think that pretty much puts the legal status of Iran's statement vis a vis that of the UK in proper perspective.

Why you copy paste stuff that has no stance here? Per your own posted rules:

"Innocent passage" is defined by the convention as passing through waters in an expeditious and continuous manner, which is not "prejudicial to the peace, good order or the security" of the coastal state. Fishing, polluting, weapons practice, and spying are not "innocent", and submarines and other underwater vehicles are required to navigate on the surface and to show their flag. Nations can also temporarily suspend innocent passage in specific areas of their territorial seas, if doing so is essential for the protection of its security.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/iranian-...-to-change-course.445932/page-3#ixzz4J3FaKIgq

It is like you have a rule book consisted of 100 rules that says violation of one of these rules will result in the agreement automatically lose its complete validation...

US armed navy ships are prejudicial to the peace, good order or the security" of the coastal state. polluting, weapons practice, and spying

It is simple... does not need all this heavy copy paste operations so you could justify your false arguments...

It is an Iranian strait and Iran decides if a flag carrier is a threat or not... It is a right that Iran exercises and gives no damn about what them or their puppets think... This is no different from three incidents where Iran arrested English and American troopers... Iran has a right and opposite to those cowards practices her rights...

Discussion is over...


 
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Why you copy paste stuff that has no stance here? Per your own posted rules:

"Innocent passage" is defined by the convention as passing through waters in an expeditious and continuous manner, which is not "prejudicial to the peace, good order or the security" of the coastal state. Fishing, polluting, weapons practice, and spying are not "innocent", and submarines and other underwater vehicles are required to navigate on the surface and to show their flag. Nations can also temporarily suspend innocent passage in specific areas of their territorial seas, if doing so is essential for the protection of its security.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/iranian-...-to-change-course.445932/page-3#ixzz4J3FaKIgq

It is like you have a rule book consisted of 100 rules that says violation of one of these rules will result in the agreement automatically lose its complete validation...

US armed navy ships are prejudicial to the peace, good order or the security" of the coastal state. polluting, weapons practice, and spying

It is simple... does not need all this heavy copy paste operations so you could justify your false arguments...

It is an Iranian strait and Iran decides if a flag carrier is a threat or not... It is a right that Iran exercises and gives no damn about what them or their puppets think... This is no different from three incidents where Iran arrested English and American troopers... Iran has a right and opposite to those cowards practices her rights...

Discussion is over...
Sure, if you mean having a radar or esm 'on' is spying. Why not that same fuzz over the French Charles the Gaulle?
Transit passage is different from Innocent passage.

Sure, all of the Strait of Hormuz is Iranian, since it has no neigbours (UAE, Oman e.g.) which are also coastal states on the same strait. If you claim a right, you need to show the basis for that right. Thus far, the only right you refer to is might (which is, in effect, in the case of Iran, more limited than you may want to believe)

You are in no position to tell me or any poster how and what to post or whether discusion is over. You are a visitor here. Behave like one.
 
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'If It’s an Invasion, We Confront': Iran Intercepts US Ships in Persian Gulf

111001-N-VN693-288.jpg


According to US Defense Department officials, the USS Firebolt was forced to change course by Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps in the Persian Gulf. The Navy’s coastal patrol ship was operating in the Gulf on Sunday when it was allegedly approached by an Iranian attack craft that came within 100 yard of the US vessels. The Iranian craft sailed in front of the Firebolt, forcing the ship to divert its course.

One Pentagon official, speaking on condition of anonymity, described the move as "unsafe and unprofessional due to lack of communications and the close-range harassing maneuvering."

Six other Iranian ships “harassed” the Firebolt before it was forced to change course. While crew members reportedly attempted to make radio contact three times, they received no response.

"We don’t see this type of unsafe and unprofessional activity from any other nation," the US official said. This is at least the fifth reported incident of its kind in less than a month. The USS Nitze was intercepted by four Iranian vessels while sailing through the Strait of Hormuz last month. Following this encounter, similar incidents occurred with the USS Squall, USS Stout, and USS Tempest.

The Pentagon described each encounter as "unsafe."

One US official claimed that since January, there have been 31 such encounters between US and Iranian ships.

"These are incidents that carry a risk of escalation and we don’t desire any kind of escalation," Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook told reporters last month. "Our ships have been operating in that part of the world for years."

Earlier this year, two US Navy patrol vessels drifted into Iranian waters in the Persian Gulf. Crewmembers were apprehended by the Revolutionary Guard and nearly sparked an international crisis in the midst of the Iran nuclear negotiations.

Iranian defense minister Gen. Hosein Dehghan has defended Tehran’s actions, maintaining that it would perform similar intercepts as often as necessary. "If any foreign vessel enters our waters, we warn them," he told Tasnim news agency last month, "and if it’s an invasion, we confront."

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160906/1045031601/iran-uss-firebolt.html

--------a good answer among the rt comments:
its the only way to keep the us military from loosing its way like last time. Embarrassing for everyone.
 
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'If It’s an Invasion, We Confront': Iran Intercepts US Ships in Persian Gulf

111001-N-VN693-288.jpg




"We don’t see this type of unsafe and unprofessional activity from any other nation," the US official said. This is at least the fifth reported incident of its kind in less than a month. The USS Nitze was intercepted by four Iranian vessels while sailing through the Strait of Hormuz last month. Following this encounter, similar incidents occurred with the USS Squall, USS Stout, and USS Tempest.

The Pentagon described each encounter as "unsafe."
.

Ahh,this makes me laugh,nothing like good old western hypocrisy and double standards
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...mes-dangerously-close-russian-patrol-boat-med
 
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Sure, if you mean having a radar or esm 'on' is spying. Why not that same fuzz over the French Charles the Gaulle?
Transit passage is different from Innocent passage.

Sure, all of the Strait of Hormuz is Iranian, since it has no neigbours (UAE, Oman e.g.) which are also coastal states on the same strait. If you claim a right, you need to show the basis for that right. Thus far, the only right you refer to is might (which is, in effect, in the case of Iran, more limited than you may want to believe)

You are in no position to tell me or any poster how and what to post or whether discusion is over. You are a visitor here. Behave like one.
Actually we don't consider American passages through straight of Hormuz or Persian gulf as an innocent one in fact we take all of them as direct threat ... there is no innocent things regarding American presence in Persian gulf or in entire region ....the fact is American should always realize that we watch them carefully ....
I can clearly remember how American went banana when Iran navy commander announced future plans of his force which in Iran navy would expand its mission areas from the Indian ocean to Atlantic oceans back in 2013-14 ...and we have not sent our fleet yet and they made stories about how Iranian were going to nuke them via warships armed with ballistic missiles ...
 
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Ahh,this makes me laugh,nothing like good old western hypocrisy and double standards
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...mes-dangerously-close-russian-patrol-boat-med

OH, you again? Nice that you limit yourself to the 'out of context' clip selected by Russian propagandists....

A US defense official said there was more to the Gravely incident than just what was seen in the video on YouTube. The entire encounter, the official said, lasted more than an hour and took place entirely in international waters.

According to the official, the Gravely was escorting the Truman while the Russian frigate was observing operations and maneuvering too close for comfort to the carrier, restricting the flattop’s freedom of maneuver.

“Gravely was operating astern of Harry S. Truman, and assessed that 777 was intentionally trying to interfere with Harry S. Truman operations,” the official said, referring to the Russian frigate’s side number.


The destroyer maneuvered to place herself between the Yaroslav Mudry and the Truman, but the Russian closed to within 315 yards, the official said.

At that distance, “the interaction was assessed as unsafe,” the official said.

“The interaction was assessed as unprofessional because 777 displayed an international signal for being restricted in her ability maneuver, but then freely maneuvered in both course and speed as Gravely changed course and speed,” the US defense official said. “This demonstrates that 777 was not restricted in their ability to maneuver.


The official provided a detailed description of the incident:

“777 had raised day shapes “ball-diamond-ball,” which is the international signal a ship displays when restricted in her ability to maneuver, when she took position two nautical miles off Gravely’s starboard quarter. Then, 777 repeatedly asked Gravely over VHF radio to maintain a safe distance, while 777 continued to maneuver to get closer to Gravely.

“As Gravely changed course and speed, 777 also changed course and speed. The maneuvering demonstrates that 777 was not in fact restricted in her ability to maneuver, and was thus intentionally displaying a false international signal.

“Gravely assessed that 777 was intentionally trying to interfere with Harry S. Truman operations.

“777’s closest point of approach (CPA) was approximately 315 yards to USS Gravely and five nautical miles to USS Harry S. Truman. The CPAs were closer than previous Russian Federation Navy interactions in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea recently.”

That a maneuvering incident could grow into something more serious remains a danger, the official added.

“We have deep concerns about the unsafe and unprofessional Russian ship maneuvers,” said the US defense official. “These actions have the potential to unnecessarily escalate tensions between countries, and could result in a miscalculation or accident which results in serious injury or death.”


https://www.navytimes.com/story/mil...oyer-got-too-close-its-ships-europe/86468512/

Do inform yourself .

Actually we don't consider American passages through straight of Hormuz or Persian gulf as an innocent one in fact we take all of them as direct threat ... there is no innocent things regarding American presence in Persian gulf or in entire region ....the fact is American should always realize that we watch them carefully ....
I can clearly remember how American went banana when Iran navy commander announced future plans of his force which in Iran navy would expand its mission areas from the Indian ocean to Atlantic oceans back in 2013-14 ...and we have not sent our fleet yet and they made stories about how Iranian were going to nuke them via warships armed with ballistic missiles ...
It took you all of five days to come up with that and attempt to restart a dead discussion?

According to a recent Iranian estimate, 80% of Iran's own foreign trade passes through the Strait of Hormuz. See 'The geo-politicsof the Strait of Hormuzand the Iran-Oman relations' by Ashgar Jafari-Valdani in Iranian Review of Foreign Affairs, 4.2 (2012), pp. 7-40 (13)

So, with that in mind, best of luck closing it down.
 
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OH, you again? Nice that you limit yourself to the 'out of context' clip selected by Russian propagandists....

A US defense official said there was more to the Gravely incident than just what was seen in the video on YouTube. The entire encounter, the official said, lasted more than an hour and took place entirely in international waters.

According to the official, the Gravely was escorting the Truman while the Russian frigate was observing operations and maneuvering too close for comfort to the carrier, restricting the flattop’s freedom of maneuver.

“Gravely was operating astern of Harry S. Truman, and assessed that 777 was intentionally trying to interfere with Harry S. Truman operations,” the official said, referring to the Russian frigate’s side number.


The destroyer maneuvered to place herself between the Yaroslav Mudry and the Truman, but the Russian closed to within 315 yards, the official said.

At that distance, “the interaction was assessed as unsafe,” the official said.

“The interaction was assessed as unprofessional because 777 displayed an international signal for being restricted in her ability maneuver, but then freely maneuvered in both course and speed as Gravely changed course and speed,” the US defense official said. “This demonstrates that 777 was not restricted in their ability to maneuver.


The official provided a detailed description of the incident:

“777 had raised day shapes “ball-diamond-ball,” which is the international signal a ship displays when restricted in her ability to maneuver, when she took position two nautical miles off Gravely’s starboard quarter. Then, 777 repeatedly asked Gravely over VHF radio to maintain a safe distance, while 777 continued to maneuver to get closer to Gravely.

“As Gravely changed course and speed, 777 also changed course and speed. The maneuvering demonstrates that 777 was not in fact restricted in her ability to maneuver, and was thus intentionally displaying a false international signal.

“Gravely assessed that 777 was intentionally trying to interfere with Harry S. Truman operations.

“777’s closest point of approach (CPA) was approximately 315 yards to USS Gravely and five nautical miles to USS Harry S. Truman. The CPAs were closer than previous Russian Federation Navy interactions in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea recently.”

That a maneuvering incident could grow into something more serious remains a danger, the official added.

“We have deep concerns about the unsafe and unprofessional Russian ship maneuvers,” said the US defense official. “These actions have the potential to unnecessarily escalate tensions between countries, and could result in a miscalculation or accident which results in serious injury or death.”


https://www.navytimes.com/story/mil...oyer-got-too-close-its-ships-europe/86468512/

Do inform yourself .


It took you all of five days to come up with that and attempt to restart a dead discussion?

According to a recent Iranian estimate, 80% of Iran's own foreign trade passes through the Strait of Hormuz. See 'The geo-politicsof the Strait of Hormuzand the Iran-Oman relations' by Ashgar Jafari-Valdani in Iranian Review of Foreign Affairs, 4.2 (2012), pp. 7-40 (13)

So, with that in mind, best of luck closing it down.

I didn't read previous posts and I didn't mean that Iran should close the straight down .... I just said we do consider American passages not an innocent one which is base on the history of the US in Persian gulf , violations of our territorial borders and airspace via their warships, boats and drones or what they did back in 80s by targeting Iran's oil platforms in Persian gulf are blatant examples of it .... actually it's not about engaging in a real war with them I assure you that Iranians are smart enough to not start a war , a long-lasting peace is what we seek and these things have been done in order to prevent such a probable war, in a nutshell the main problem that poses a threat for Iran ain't their warships or military might but American hallucination about Iran acceptance of their hegemony in the region esp after nuclear deal which should be corrected , there is a bigger picture over here which straight of Hormuz is just a tiny part of it ...
 
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I didn't read previous posts
Had you read the previous posts you would have known there is a difference in international law between innocent passage through territorial waters (which is what Iran is referring to) and transit passage through a strait that is an international waterway (which is what the US is referring to).

Unfortunately, legalisms aside, USA never signed UNCLOS (but generally abides by it) and Iran signed but did not ratify UNCLOS. So, there are some that claim Iran is not bound by UNCLOS. But if that is so, then neither is US. And so the whole issue of passage, whether 'innocent' or 'transit' as defined by UNCLOS is MOOT. The whole thing then comes down to military might: are Iran's armed forces capable of effectively blocking US ships from passing Hormuz, and are US armed forces capable of effectively pushing through. Now, I'm not a betting man, but I do understand someting about odds. And I'll leave it at that.

It is rather presumptious for (certain) Iranians (here) to claim the Hormuz strait is 'theirs', given that there are other states in the area e.g. Oman, UAE, which has coastlines on the strait (no to mention countries around the Persian Gulf that depend on passage through Hormuz for sea acces to the rest of the world). That's like France claiming the entire English Channel. Or Denmark claiming the Kattegatt over Sweden and the Skagerrak over Norway. Or Spain claiming the Strait of Gibraltar over Morocco. Or Indonesia claiming the Malacca Strait over Malaysia. Ad nauseum.

Incidentally, the whole idea of 12nmi territorial waters, another 12 nmi contiguous zone and beyond that EEZ is from UNCLOS. Those who dismiss UNCLOS also dismiss that. I note Iran has signed UN instruments regarding implementation of management of sea resources (re. part XI of Unclos), and has thereby bound itself to ('implicitly ratified') at least that portion of UNCLOS. Prior to UNCLOS the situation in Hormuz strait was 3 nmi territorial waters on either side and international waters in between. People should remember that when they say Iran is not bound by UNCLOS and therefore doesn't have to let e.g. US naval forces pass undisturbed.

One can't have it both ways ;-)
 
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Had you read the previous posts you would have known there is a difference in international law between innocent passage through territorial waters (which is what Iran is referring to) and transit passage through a strait that is an international waterway (which is what the US is referring to).

Unfortunately, legalisms aside, USA never signed UNCLOS (but generally abides by it) and Iran signed but did not ratify UNCLOS. So, there are some that claim Iran is not bound by UNCLOS. But if that is so, then neither is US. And so the whole issue of passage, whether 'innocent' or 'transit' as defined by UNCLOS is MOOT. The whole thing then comes down to military might: are Iran's armed forces capable of effectively blocking US ships from passing Hormuz, and are US armed forces capable of effectively pushing through. Now, I'm not a betting man, but I do understand someting about odds. And I'll leave it at that.

It is rather presumptious for (certain) Iranians (here) to claim the Hormuz strait is 'theirs', given that there are other states in the area e.g. Oman, UAE, which has coastlines on the strait (no to mention countries around the Persian Gulf that depend on passage through Hormuz for sea acces to the rest of the world). That's like France claiming the entire English Channel. Or Denmark claiming the Kattegatt over Sweden and the Skagerrak over Norway. Or Spain claiming the Strait of Gibraltar over Morocco. Or Indonesia claiming the Malacca Strait over Malaysia. Ad nauseum.

Incidentally, the whole idea of 12nmi territorial waters, another 12 nmi contiguous zone and beyond that EEZ is from UNCLOS. Those who dismiss UNCLOS also dismiss that. I note Iran has signed UN instruments regarding implementation of management of sea resources (re. part XI of Unclos), and has thereby bound itself to ('implicitly ratified') at least that portion of UNCLOS. Prior to UNCLOS the situation in Hormuz strait was 3 nmi territorial waters on either side and international waters in between. People should remember that when they say Iran is not bound by UNCLOS and therefore doesn't have to let e.g. US naval forces pass undisturbed.

One can't have it both ways ;-)
The issue is very simple... you are trying to make it complicated so you can convince yourself you were right...
It is so simple...
It is a strait..
There are three passages in it
1- is Iranian 2- Omanis 3- International...
The rule is very simple...
If a nation on the strait feels passages are not innocent to their national interests and security.... Iran has the right to stop and question or even detain non-innocent passages... As long as US ships are using omani or int waters it is their choice... but when closing Iranian waters they had to comply with Iranian orders... This is the rule

Now, come again waste everybody's time explaining US espionage activities on Iran using their ships and attachments is innocent... or closing our borders is also innocent... A nation that is in a war-like status with Iran...

This is typical US hypocrite system... I,m sure that when daily incidents between American coast guard and Iranian warships cruising close to American waters (still in international waters though!) happen someday...You would start to convince yourself that US coastal guard are the ones who has RIGHT in all the incidents happening there... Then we will come explaining to you that all the espionage and powerful radars targeted America and their fleet is just an innocent passage... Then if one of your ships comes close to us,, we will certainly fire warning shots too!!
 
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The issue is very simple... you are trying to make it complicated so you can convince yourself you were right...
Right. And you are a lawyer by any change? Of a government specialist in international treaties?

It is so simple...
It is a strait..
There are three passages in it
1- is Iranian 2- Omanis 3- International...
The rule is very simple...
If a nation on the strait feels passages are not innocent to their national interests and security.... Iran has the right to stop and question or even detain non-innocent passages... As long as US ships are using omani or int waters it is their choice... but when closing Iranian waters they had to comply with Iranian orders... This is the rule
Rules such as those in treaties are never simple. Pretending them to be just reveals lack of knowledge/understanding.

Red part: ah, so now finaly someone admits there are Omani and international waters, that don't belong to Iran.
Blue part: that is actually legally contested (hence the issue of transit passage v innocent passage). The question there is 'which rule'? Assuming UNCLOS forms a legal basis.

However,, don't folks here declare that Iran isn't hampered by UNCLOS because it didn't ratify it? Consequence of that is that you can't claim those rules. Pre-Unclos situation Iran is 3 nmi territorial waters, not 12. On either side of the strait. Which basically puts the ships in international waters. Unless you claim 12nmi, but this implies de facto submission to UNCLOS rules.

Now, come again waste everybody's time explaining US espionage activities on Iran using their ships and attachments is innocent... or closing our borders is also innocent... A nation that is in a war-like status with Iran...
Errr, I dare you to quote the post where I've discussed US 'espionage activities on Iran'.

Following the Iranian Revolution of 1979, the United States imposed economic sanctions against Iran and expanded them in 1995 to include firms dealing with the Iranian government.
In 2006, the UN Security Council passed Resolution 1696 and imposed sanctions after Iran refused to suspend its uranium enrichment program. UN sanctions were lifted on 16 January 2016.
The European Union has imposed restrictions on cooperation with Iran in foreign trade, financial services, energy sectors and technologies, and banned the provision of insurance and reinsurance by insurers in member states to Iran and Iranian-owned companies. On 23 January 2012, the EU agreed to an oil embargo on Iran, effective from July, and to freeze the assets of Iran's central bank.

So, besides US, shouldn't Iran be harassing ships of the nations that where in the UN Security Council in 2006? Or ships of EU members, notably the French navy's nuclear carrier and submarines? Or do you doubt that France's does anything less than USN when it passes the Hormuz strait?

This is typical US hypocrite system... I,m sure that when daily incidents between American coast guard and Iranian warships cruising close to American waters (still in international waters though!) happen someday...You would start to convince yourself that US coastal guard are the ones who has RIGHT in all the incidents happening there... Then we will come explaining to you that all the espionage and powerful radars targeted America and their fleet is just an innocent passage... Then if one of your ships comes close to us,, we will certainly fire warning shots too!!
This is typical looser wining.
 
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OH, you again? Nice that you limit yourself to the 'out of context' clip selected by Russian propagandists....

A US defense official said there was more to the Gravely incident than just what was seen in the video on YouTube. The entire encounter, the official said, lasted more than an hour and took place entirely in international waters.

According to the official, the Gravely was escorting the Truman while the Russian frigate was observing operations and maneuvering too close for comfort to the carrier, restricting the flattop’s freedom of maneuver.

“Gravely was operating astern of Harry S. Truman, and assessed that 777 was intentionally trying to interfere with Harry S. Truman operations,” the official said, referring to the Russian frigate’s side number.


The destroyer maneuvered to place herself between the Yaroslav Mudry and the Truman, but the Russian closed to within 315 yards, the official said.

At that distance, “the interaction was assessed as unsafe,” the official said.

“The interaction was assessed as unprofessional because 777 displayed an international signal for being restricted in her ability maneuver, but then freely maneuvered in both course and speed as Gravely changed course and speed,” the US defense official said. “This demonstrates that 777 was not restricted in their ability to maneuver.


The official provided a detailed description of the incident:

“777 had raised day shapes “ball-diamond-ball,” which is the international signal a ship displays when restricted in her ability to maneuver, when she took position two nautical miles off Gravely’s starboard quarter. Then, 777 repeatedly asked Gravely over VHF radio to maintain a safe distance, while 777 continued to maneuver to get closer to Gravely.

“As Gravely changed course and speed, 777 also changed course and speed. The maneuvering demonstrates that 777 was not in fact restricted in her ability to maneuver, and was thus intentionally displaying a false international signal.

“Gravely assessed that 777 was intentionally trying to interfere with Harry S. Truman operations.

“777’s closest point of approach (CPA) was approximately 315 yards to USS Gravely and five nautical miles to USS Harry S. Truman. The CPAs were closer than previous Russian Federation Navy interactions in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea recently.”

That a maneuvering incident could grow into something more serious remains a danger, the official added.

“We have deep concerns about the unsafe and unprofessional Russian ship maneuvers,” said the US defense official. “These actions have the potential to unnecessarily escalate tensions between countries, and could result in a miscalculation or accident which results in serious injury or death.”


https://www.navytimes.com/story/mil...oyer-got-too-close-its-ships-europe/86468512/

Do inform yourself .


It took you all of five days to come up with that and attempt to restart a dead discussion?

According to a recent Iranian estimate, 80% of Iran's own foreign trade passes through the Strait of Hormuz. See 'The geo-politicsof the Strait of Hormuzand the Iran-Oman relations' by Ashgar Jafari-Valdani in Iranian Review of Foreign Affairs, 4.2 (2012), pp. 7-40 (13)

So, with that in mind, best of luck closing it down.
Right of course when I give an example of the us engaging in the same sort of behavior they accuse iran of its "out of context" or when russia complains its just "propaganda",which is even funnier as your source is the navytimes hardly an impartial or unbiased source dont you think?. I can see you`re obviously a very big fan of the good old western adage "when we in the west do its ok" hypocrisy much?
As for closing down the straits iran probably has the most potent area/sea denial capability in the region with an estimated 5000 naval mines alone ranging from old bottom moored ww1 types right up to the latest chinese rocket powered types and then theres irans stocks of antiship cruise and ballistic antiship missiles with ranges up to 300kms which basically means iran can target vessels in any part of the gulf not to mention that the geography of the straits means that anyone attempting an opposed passage would be taking fire from three directions at once,throw in the latest sam systems like the s300pmu2 and bavar 373 to create an air exclusion zone over the straits and you can see that any opposed crossing of the straits is likely to get very,very messy for the naval force involved.Perhaps you should do a little more research on irans weapons and capabilities before you post in future
 
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Right of course when I give an example of the us engaging in the same sort of behaviour they accuse iran of its "out of context" or when russia complains its just "propaganda".
No, that's not what I pointed out to you. The video gives just a very small segment with 2 ships. The whole incident lasted an hour and involved a carrier group with a nuclear powered ship at the centre. There was clearly a lot more going on than USS Gravely cutting in front of Yaruslav Mudry. Or do you deny that?

I can see you`re obviously a very big fan of "when we in the west do its ok" hypocrisy much?
No, clearly not. And stating such a thing in no way disqualifies or invalidates points I made.

The point here is that the Russian ship hoisted a international signal indicating it couldn't manouvre properly but then proceeded to display full manouvrability and attempted to close in on the carrier. The destroyer shielded the carrier (as it is supposed to do).

In discussing incidents with e.g. Russian jets buzzing US ships in international waters, I've on more than a few occasions clearly states on this forum that there is not a problem with sending aircraft to visually inspect ships. The question there is why it is necessary to make 30 or so passes, while flying so low that the aircraft is below bridge level and coming within 30m of the ship in question. That simply is dangerous and provocative behavior..


As for closing down the straits iran probably has the most potent area/sea denial capability in the region with an estimated 5000 naval mines alone ranging from old bottom moored ww1 types right up to the latest chinese rocket powered types and then theres irans stocks of antiship cruise and ballistic antiship missiles with ranges up to 300kms which basically means ran can target vessels in any part of the gulf not to mention that the geography of the straits means that anyone attempting an opposed passage would be taking fire from three directions at once.
I say, go ahead. Close it. Use lots of mines. By Iranian estimates 80% of its own foreign trade uses the strait. I'm sure Iranian sailors wouldn't mind a few mines. And, given that 35% of all seaborn traded oil - 20% of the oil traded worldwide couldn't go through the strait then and 85% of these crude oil exports go to Asian markets, with Japan, India, South Korea, and China representing the largest destinations (all of which have pretty good and substantial navy's), it would not make Iran a lot of new friends (while not hitting the US or EU very hard. You go figure who would be hit hardest, ultimately.

Keep in mind, for example, that approximately 80% of China's total imports from Iran are oil and the rest is mineral and chemical products. China helped Iran militarily in the following areas: conduct training of high-level officials on advanced systems, provide technical support, supply specialty steel for missile construction, provide control technology for missile development, build a missile factory and test range. China is responsible for aiding in the development of advanced conventional weapons including surface-to-air missiles, combat aircraft, radar systems, and fast-attack missile vessels. Do you think China would remain Iran's friend if Iran mined the Strait and cut off 40% of China's oil imports? Or even would allow such action

china-sources-of-oil.jpg


Perhaps you should do a little more research on irans weapons and capabilities before you post in future

ROFL.

I'm sure my lack of knowledge was the reason why I was called in by Soheil to aid in the Iranian section the other day, to help research Iranian jet engine development.

But I'll be nice and take you attempt to emulate my post - however poorly executed - as a compliment

ff0ff49fda7e95a2619ae9cb4828ead1.jpg
 
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