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1) and 2) are the same point but worded differently. This population decline is forecasted in the west as well, with the coming death of the baby boomers.

West has immigration from rest of the world. What does China have?

3) there is no evidence of what India has to offer to this Quad other than to show disdain for Chinese hegemony. The Quad will be mostly an Anglophinic driven force, without which they can't stand up to China. With or without India both the Quad and SCO can function just fine.

Irrelevant. India and China are geopolitical rivals. The only reason Pakistan receives so much military aid is because it represents a bulwark against India aggression. Not even Iran was offered was offered J-10C that Pakistan got.

So since we have established BOTH China and US have threats to their demographics, the time is also running out for US to act before there is no chance for them to win against China. I will not accept that the pressure is only on China.

US has immigration to blunt its demographics to an extent. Look at immigration rates annually for US vs China. That’s with US severely restricting immigration from Middle Eastern countries. If tomorrow US decided to open floodgates many would apply for immigration status.

China is moving forward with AI to try to stem the coming demographics crisis. It cannot rely on immigration like the US can.


The CTSO and SCO are different organisations and as far as I see Azerbaijan have halted their aggression into Armenia, the second Armenia called for Russian help. Im sure Russia had to remind the Turks about what the CTSO is all about if Azerbaijan were to threaten the Armenian state beyond Nagorno-Qarabaq.

Azeribajian had zero support on world stage. Was condemned by even western powers. Nancy Pelosi arrived in Armenia.

Not because they are scared of Russia that is trapped in Ukraine quagmire.

When did I say China will go to war for the "eye ray nians"?! A bit odd that a so called Iranian would mock the name of Iran so freely. Also a bit odd how you dont understand a word of Farsi and cant write a single Persian word to save you life.

Negaran nabash jasoos nistam

I have used that example many times before to illustrate Western dismissive viewpoints on Iran.

You said it’s a security organization and I repeated if the two powerful members will not defend the articles then it’s worthless. Then you say when did I say China will go to war for Iran. That’s my point. NATO will defend its articles we all know this, but if Russia will be wishy washy and China will be wishy washy then it’s not really a security organization that can be relied on.

China hasn’t done anything vis a vi Taiwan. Taiwan continues to get armed with US weapons. Nancy Pelosi visited and China didn’t do anything besides some kicking and screaming.

If anyone is sharpening their knife it’s the US as more and more Western companies are being forced to move their operations from mainland China to Vietnam and other countries in preparation for the Great Power Game (if it even happens).

Chinese growth has slowed to 3%…the lowest in decades. This isn’t as lopsided a fight you think it is.

Also Iran managing to reverse engineer AL-31 would be huge feat. Even Peed thought that would be very optimistic and settled for RD-33z Saying Iran can reverse AL-41 is unrealistic.
 
Thank you! 4th gen fighters are outdated
The majority of the world's air forces (including naval squadrons) are composed of 4th generation fighters, so I would say that their obsolescence isn't around the corner until most of the world's air forces are 5th gen.
 
The majority of the world's air forces (including naval squadrons) are composed of 4th generation fighters, so I would say that their obsolescence isn't around the corner until most of the world's air forces are 5th gen.
They are obsolete for Iran's needs. "Israel" has F-35 and the UAE will soon get it, Saudis will probably get some 5th gen fighter down the line as well.
 
West has immigration from rest of the world. What does China have?



Irrelevant. India and China are geopolitical rivals. The only reason Pakistan receives so much military aid is because it represents a bulwark against India aggression. Not even Iran was offered was offered J-10C that Pakistan got.



US has immigration to blunt its demographics to an extent. Look at immigration rates annually for US vs China. That’s with US severely restricting immigration from Middle Eastern countries. If tomorrow US decided to open floodgates many would apply for immigration status.

China is moving forward with AI to try to stem the coming demographics crisis. It cannot rely on immigration like the US can.




Azeribajian had zero support on world stage. Was condemned by even western powers. Nancy Pelosi arrived in Armenia.

Not because they are scared of Russia that is trapped in Ukraine quagmire.



Negaran nabash jasoos nistam

I have used that example many times before to illustrate Western dismissive viewpoints on Iran.

You said it’s a security organization and I repeated if the two powerful members will not defend the articles then it’s worthless. Then you say when did I say China will go to war for Iran. That’s my point. NATO will defend its articles we all know this, but if Russia will be wishy washy and China will be wishy washy then it’s not really a security organization that can be relied on.

China hasn’t done anything vis a vi Taiwan. Taiwan continues to get armed with US weapons. Nancy Pelosi visited and China didn’t do anything besides some kicking and screaming.

If anyone is sharpening their knife it’s the US as more and more Western companies are being forced to move their operations from mainland China to Vietnam and other countries in preparation for the Great Power Game (if it even happens).

Chinese growth has slowed to 3%…the lowest in decades. This isn’t as lopsided a fight you think it is.

Also Iran managing to reverse engineer AL-31 would be huge feat. Even Peed thought that would be very optimistic and settled for RD-33z Saying Iran can reverse AL-41 is unrealistic.

What part of the "whole world is going through the same demographical threats as China" dont you understand?! Apart from the relatively larger population China has over US, those immigrants are also going through the same demographical problems, so this idea of an eternal and abundant stream immigrants to the US is a myth. Plus from what we see these immigrants are usually low skilled workers that add very little value, compared to Chinese workers. Also dont discount Chinese exploits in Africa.

Rivals or not, my point still stands that India is not deciding factor in either Quad or SCO. The fact that Pakistan can keep them in check and India is so readily willing to cede land to China speaks volumes:


Youre repeating this debunked claim that human capital is the future. I agree that AI is the future which China is rivaling US in, and Chinas significant larger population and tradition family-orientated culture is a better catalyst for increasing population. The west is a breeding ground for LGBTQ, anti-population growth liberals, abortion, and incels which is also a massive threat to their population prospects.

Massive contradiction there, one minute you say Armenia has no support on the world stage and then you bring up Pelosi?! Did she go there to vent anger at Armenia? Also we were talking about CTSO efficacy in the recent conflict, not world support, so I'd appreciate you stop changing the goal posts every time I refute you. The fact is Russia, the enforcer of CTSO, stepped in yet again and stopped the war in a peaceful manner which is commendable...if Russia's words didnt carry weight behind them then the hostilies would carry on by the pan-Turks!

So why do you think Azerbaijan stopped and where is your evidence? Surely they would have carried on fighting if Russia was a paper tiger.

Man oono misbaram be khoda va ta bishtar ba shoma ertebat nakardam bishtar az oon had ghezavat nemikonam!

What is odd, however, you mocked the name of Iran in light of China, not the west. Like I said, I'll leave this one to Allah!

Regardless, is NATO directly attacking China and Russia, of vice versa? No! Is NATO directly attacking any member of SCO? Nope! Therefore it is premature to say that Russia and China wont defend the member of SCO. You may say "well, why arent Russia and China doing anything about the Kyrgyz-Tajik war hapoening right now?". Looking at it comparatively with NATO, US or any other member state didnt go near the Turkish Cypriot war either, was a war between two member states, instead leaving it UN peace keepers. Fat lot of help that was!

Im 100% sure if any nation hostile to SCO were to attack Iran unprovoked, then they will help Iran in ways that will make the war unwinnable. And that in itself is both a detterant and tantamount to direct support. Of course, SCO being in its infancy and having a slight balanced approach than NATO, there is definite more room for a more decisive united stance in the face of outside aggresion against a member state.

I have to agree that China should have done more when Pelosi arrived! Though I could say why didnt US do more to stop shipments of oil and other things to Venezuela? Its not that easy to just shoot down a plane of an official. But the fact that its ships are surrounding Taiwan and their planes enter the airspace without opposition, China is becoming more hostile to Taiwan and getting more used to the idea of a possible invasion. It takes time to get that knife sharp enough and the appetite of the public ready for such endeavor. Make no mistake, China has the firepower to destroy Taiwan, no matter what US sells them. In fact, these Asians are more cut throat in war than the ethical orthodox christians of Russia, who are being too curteous and kind to the Ukrainians for my liking.

Lots of economies are struggling, not just China. Dont forget there is an economic war that is happening which will explain this. But it is not some great discovery by you when you highlight that the west is sharpening its knife. The west was always the aggressor and born from fighting. The point is China is also sharpening its knife which it hadnt done in the past. Better late than never, I say.

Sorry but who the hell is "Peed"?! Like honestly who the hell told him that that was a good idea for a username?! He could have gone for sharted, shat or farted and it still wouldn't have been more odd than Peed! Regardless, nobody is saying Iran can reverse engineer an AL-41 easily or overnight. However the knowledge Iran can get even from CKD kits and taking apart an AL-41 is immeasurable and can help Iran get ideas for domestic engines. I have faith in our men and women to do such tasks and will only skill them more at reverse engineering. Are we really gonna stick with F-4 engines forever or shall we progress?

They are obsolete for Iran's needs. "Israel" has F-35 and the UAE will soon get it, Saudis will probably get some 5th gen fighter down the line as well.

So what you're saying is having F-4s and modded F-5s is better than having brand new Su-35 in combatting these threats?
 
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So what you're saying is having F-4s and modded F-5s is better than having brand new Su-35 in combatting these threats?
No it's not better, but having 24 Su-35 is not a very good option against the hundreds of gen 4 and 5 fighters of our regional enemies. If you want access to the engine then buy 3 or 4 and pick them apart, I could support that move but either buy enough where they'll make a difference or don't waste the budget. 24 is still a $1 billion+ purchase that does not significantly change IRIAF capabilities relative to our potential enemies.
 
Man, these guys are really far behind lol..

What was that IRGC 6 canister launcher truck that we saw a few years ago? Were those Fath tac missiles?

I believe so. But with Iranian arms appearing in Ukraine now these “journalists” are looking at other arms that could make its way there.
 
No it's not better, but having 24 Su-35 is not a very good option against the hundreds of gen 4 and 5 fighters of our regional enemies. If you want access to the engine then buy 3 or 4 and pick them apart, I could support that move but either buy enough where they'll make a difference or don't waste the budget. 24 is still a $1 billion+ purchase that does not significantly change IRIAF capabilities relative to our potential enemies.

So just sticking to a bunch of modded F5s and F4s will improve our chances? Lol

Assuming Iran does have the finance, which neither of us truly know, from that 24 we can pick some apart, and add the remaining as a new squadron to at least train our fighters in using real 4th Gen aircraft when we adapt our indegenous designs. The Kowsar is target practice against 5th Gen so dont try to pretend everything is rosy just by sitting on our hands! Of course they will improve Iran's capabilities, in more ways than one.
 
Iran Bavar is expensive to build and expensive to operate with its radars on.

Last time we saw Bavar it had changed designed to a S-350V like mast in the TEL that they tried to hide.

There is at least two versions of Bavar (maybe 3) the one we saw officially revealed with the more expensive layout and the cheaper Bavar-350V with the radar mast in its TEL.

Still don’t know production rate of Bavar.

We have seen mass production line of 3rd Khordad with 5+ Tels being built (wether real rate production or photo op for psych ops who knows). For Bavar, we know little to nothing.

When Rahbar goes to Mashhad we see S-300 units travel with him, not Bavar which is very telling.

Haven’t seen a deployed Bavar unit via geo sat yet either.
What lmao we've seen a lot more 3rd Khordads they're literally the entire backbone of the IRGC's air defense lmao. Also, it's a TELAR not a TEL. If you're referring to Khordad-15, then there's a lot more than 5 TELs. 5 batteries (if not more) is more likely

I did no such no thing.

A handful of Su-35S will not instill fear in our adversaries when our neighbors have 200+ F-15s, 200+ F-16s, Eurofighters, F-35s, etc. That's not even including the US or it's other european vassal states. Even Iraq is going to buy Rafales which dominated the Su-35 in trials. Are you implying we should buy Su-35 to bomb BLA?

Again, use for what? They would serve no purpose.

Buying Su-35s so you can go on PDF and brag about how modern the IRIAF is pointless when in reality they make no practical difference to their capabilities. Yes the Su-35 is more advanced than the F-5 but still obsolete compared to F-35, F-22, and new generation european fighters.
SU-35 is not obsolete compared to other 4.5 & 4th gen aircraft (including European ones) that Iran's adversaries use

Man, these guys are really far behind lol..

What was that IRGC 6 canister launcher truck that we saw a few years ago? Were those Fath tac missiles?
That was export version of Fath
 
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What lmao we've seen a lot more 3rd Khordads they're literally the entire backbone of the IRGC's air defense lmao. Also, it's a TELAR not a TEL. If you're referring to Khordad-15, then there's a lot more than 5 TELs. 5 batteries (if not more) is more likely

You need to learn to read better. I didn’t say only five 3rd Khordad telar exist. I said we have seen footage of an assembly plant where 5+ were being made at a time pointing to mass production capability.
 
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