Fawadqasim1
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Absolutely sir iran sans mullahs was and will be a great country.
Iranian CPEC?
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Max
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No, but there was thread few days ago in which Chinese members claimed its fake news and statement was in Chinese .. anyways its too good to be real. China will wait to deal with sane Govt in Iran.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iran...-280bn-investment-from-beijing-report.634867/
Indus Pakistan
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I don't place much store on this story either. Let's not get stuck with the specfics like dollars expected to be invested or number of or no number of soldiers to be sent to Iran. The bigger picture is China and Iran will inch together. As it is now we know for sure that although they have reduced imports but China is still buying Iranian oil.
Look at the bigger picture.
Max
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I am all for it as it will benefit Pakistan as well, but its too good to be true
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war&peace
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That news of 280 billion and 5000 Chinese soldiers guarding the investment comes from a channel that has pretty low credibility as both the Chinese and the Irani members claimed it to be fake because China has not only reduced oil imports from Iran but also has not finished a 1.4 bln pipeline. So, I would trust the news if it comes from a Chinese news channel in English because if a Pakistani newspaper got hold of it then a Chinese news sources should not be deprived by the Chinese govt.
Indus Pakistan
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It is too good to be true if you expect PLAN warships disembarking Chinese soldiers and China investing $250 billion next year. But if you look at the bigger picture. A slowly evolving order where more pressure US applies on Iran it has only one option. To inch toward China. For the latter Iran offers oil supplies beyond control of Washington. don't forget Saudia and UAE are under US dictat. Also gas can be supplies through Central Asia to China.
You seem to be missing the forest for the trees.
China in hedging its bets on Iran as Pakistan has started moving closer to the US since IK took power in Pakistan.
Indus Pakistan
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Shared vision binds Iran-China relations
By Mohammad Javad Zarif Source:Global Times Published: 2019/8/26 15:07:23
Mohammad Javad Zarif Photo: AFP
As foreign minister of the Islamic Republic of Iran, I have had the honor of both travelling to China and hosting my Chinese counterparts in Tehran on several occasions. On such occasions, it has never been lost on me that I am participating in a millennia's old ritual between two great civilizations. The relationship between Iran and China stretches back 2,000 years when explorers and merchants made contact along the Silk Road. There, the people of our two countries first learned to appreciate the greatness of each other's civilizations. These early contacts set the stage for thousands of years of a special connection between two of the greatest, most advanced and most enduring civilizations in the world.
Today, China has become an indispensable economic partner of Iran and the two countries are strategic partners on many fronts. But in order to overcome the emerging challenges which have impeded the ability of many nations to achieve sustainable development, it is imperative for both China and Iran to strengthen their ties more than the past. China and Iran face challenges and strive to achieve goals in terms of sustainable development, the protection of the environment, the eradication of poverty and suppression of extremism and terrorism that threaten the world every day. We believe that common problems need common solutions thus requiring greater cooperation, coordination and close communication.
I would posit here that while our glorious past inspires us to look to one another and our present relationship sets the framework for our cooperation, it is indeed our futures that bind us. China and Iran share a vision of sovereign states with independent foreign policies across the Asian continent being connected, prospering together and realizing their potential and their true places in the world.
We both favor multilateralism in global affairs but that has come under attack now more than ever. History is littered with exploitative powers but China has sought connection to countries around the world with a focus on mutual respect, dignity and joint interests. China and Iran support fair and balanced commercial ties around the world and we both face overseas hostility by populist unilateralist bigotry.
Iran showed constructive flexibility to reach a compromise with world powers in a nuclear deal that became recognized as a historic diplomatic achievement and an important pillar of a global arms control regime. China was a part of those negotiations and has shown fidelity to its commitments, but certain participants have not. How we respond to this maximalism and this blatant violation of international commitments and law may have a defining impact on our ability to reach for that shared vision of our continent's future.
It is here that the special role of regionally and internationally influential countries in the world - like China and Iran - is critical to save international peace and security for all. The most important and effective response is for us to support one another's sovereignty and expand our economic cooperation. As our forefathers did in ancient times, we must follow the Silk Road to an inclusive cultural and economic enrichment. Iran has already begun its efforts to implement this idea.
Inspired by the Belt and Road Initiative, and to build strategic mutual trust, the Islamic Republic of Iran and the People's Republic of China have jointly worked on a guideline for future cooperation, which is a manifestation of the fact that the two countries' cooperation is now entering a new phase.
Any successful strategic partnership demands a strong foundation of economic relations that benefits both parties. As we move forward, it is essential to look toward future trends. The economy of the future will be based on knowledge, technology and innovation. In order to position our economies and commercial ties to benefit from the current outlook, we express our determination to engage and contribute effectively to China's plan to build a world-leading base for science, technology and innovation.
Regarding current developments, Iran strongly supports China's position on the so-called "trade war" and regards the protectionist approach of the US and its abandonment of rules-based trade concepts as being counterproductive, unreasonable and destructive. Moreover, Iran has always strongly supported the "One China Policy", praised the achievements of "one country, two systems" and rejected any interference in the internal affairs of China.
Iran commends China's continued support for Iran's peaceful nuclear program and effective actions in order to overcome illegal and unilateral sanctions that have hindered Iran from realizing the economic benefits promised in the deal.
There is a strong consensus among international relations scholars that the twenty-first century will be an Asian century. As much of the challenges faced by Iran and China, certain quarters of the West have shown, not every actor in the international community is ready to embrace that future. In these circumstances, the steadfast cooperation between China and Iran, as two countries with a deep commitment to a connected and prosperous Asia, is essential and indispensable.
The author is foreign minister of Islamic Republic of Iran. opinion@globaltimes.com.cn
@Max
@Max @Mangus Ortus Novem @Irfan Baloch read this guys.
Opinion
This Isn’t About Iran. It’s About China.
In a world of global financial markets, 5G networks and cyberwar, geography still rules. The two shipping lanes in the Strait of Hormuz, each two miles wide, hold the key to the Persian Gulf and roughly half of the world’s proven oil reserves and production capacity. That is why the recent attacks, widely assumed to have been ordered by Iran, on tankers in the Gulf of Oman, a strategic waterway just outside the Strait, have frayed geopolitical nerves the world over.
The Iranians understand that because geography is so precious in the Gulf region, small actions have magnified effects. Likewise, the Americans know that in the constricted waters of the Gulf, their large warships are prone to attacks by Iranian swarm boats, even as Iran’s proximity to Saudi Arabia threatens that fragile kingdom and American ally. Truly, the Middle East faces a crisis of room.
Yet geography tells a more important story in the Gulf region: The current tensions are less about Iran and the Persian Gulf than about China and the Indian Ocean. Whether the Trump administration realizes it or not, what is occurring in the American-Iranian standoff is about something much vaster.
The Gulf of Oman separates not only Oman and Iran, but also Oman and Pakistan. In the southwestern corner of Pakistan, close to the Iranian border, China has completed a state-of-the-art container port at Gwadar, which Beijing hopes will eventually link up with roads, railways and pipelines to western China. And from Gwadar, the Chinese can monitor shipping traffic through the Strait of Hormuz.
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contemplating the construction of a naval base nearby, adjacent to the Iranian border. More crucially, the Gulf of Oman has become more than just a waterway for oil that America, with its shale gas revolution, requires less and less of. It is a hinge uniting the Middle East, the Indian subcontinent and East Asia in China’s Belt and Road Initiative.
While the United States contemplates a war with Iran, the Chinese are engaged in trade and infrastructure building there. Gwadar is central to the maritime aspect of the Belt and Road Initiative, but China’s interest in Iran is about both land and sea. The routes that China has already built across Central Asia link China with Iran — an unbeatable combination in Eurasia, where Iran is a demographic and geographic organizing point.
An American war with Iran will drive the country even further into the hands of China, which already accounts for almost a third of all Iran’s energy trade. While China’s energy ties with Iran may be curtailed as a result of the Trump administration’s sanctions, as well as by the complexities of the Beijing-Washington trade talks, China and Iran will eventually find a way to cooperate and thwart the United States.
The Gulf of Oman remains a focus of the Belt and Road Initiative, as do, to a lesser extent, other energy-rich points along the Indian Ocean. The aim is to get oil and gas transported directly by pipeline north into China, since the Strait of Malacca, which runs between Malaysia and Indonesia and upon which China currently depends for much of its imported oil, is, like the Strait of Hormuz, too narrow for comfort. Again, it is all about geography.
It isn’t only China that is central to the Persian Gulf region. The Indians and Iranians are competing with China and Pakistan to unite the Gulf of Oman with the Eurasian interior, in the hope of linking southeastern Iran with energy-rich Central Asia. It is unclear which effort will succeed — the Chinese-Pakistani one, the Indian-Iranian one, or both. In any case, the United States is simply not in this game.
Iran is at the very center of 21st-century geopolitics. It dominates Central Asian trade routes and sits at the hydrocarbon nexus of the Indian Ocean, with a coastline of over 1,500 miles stretching from Iraq to Pakistan. Iran is the key to China’s plans, just as China’s plans are key to Eurasia’s destiny.
Indeed, China has a grand strategy that understands all this geography and culture. The United States, by contrast, is pursuing a myopic, war-by-choice strategy with Iran. Its withdrawal from the free-trading alliance in maritime Eurasia, known as the Trans-Pacific Partnership, shows that Washington has no plan to compete with the Belt and Road Initiative. The Americans are obsessed with the Persian Gulf as a small, distinct region; the Chinese see the larger, more fluid geographical picture.
Of course, Iran does present a challenge to peace in the Middle East and to America’s allies in particular. But Iran’s clerical regime has too many power centers and is too deeply institutionalized to be toppled by impulsive military action. Indeed, regime change in Iran could lead to a worse state of affairs, with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corp in direct control, rather than in indirect control as now.
The Chinese vision for Iran to be a hub for its Belt and Road Initiative is something the United States is simply not going to change. A better approach is a suite of economic pressures, targeted cyber attacks and resumed negotiations — combined with loud, persistent calls for increased freedoms in Iran and the other participants in the initiative, as a way to undermine China’s position.
Washington is half a world away from Eurasia. Without a big idea, the United States will be unable to compete with China. As for Iran, because of the blunt fact of geography it will be key to 21st-century Eurasia, something which argues for a long-term, sustainable strategy.
Robert D. Kaplan is a managing director for global Macro at Eurasia Group and the author, most recently, of “The Return of Marco Polo’s World: War, Strategy and American Interests in the Twenty-First Century.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/26/opinion/trump-iran-china.html
By Mohammad Javad Zarif Source:Global Times Published: 2019/8/26 15:07:23
Mohammad Javad Zarif Photo: AFP
As foreign minister of the Islamic Republic of Iran, I have had the honor of both travelling to China and hosting my Chinese counterparts in Tehran on several occasions. On such occasions, it has never been lost on me that I am participating in a millennia's old ritual between two great civilizations. The relationship between Iran and China stretches back 2,000 years when explorers and merchants made contact along the Silk Road. There, the people of our two countries first learned to appreciate the greatness of each other's civilizations. These early contacts set the stage for thousands of years of a special connection between two of the greatest, most advanced and most enduring civilizations in the world.
Today, China has become an indispensable economic partner of Iran and the two countries are strategic partners on many fronts. But in order to overcome the emerging challenges which have impeded the ability of many nations to achieve sustainable development, it is imperative for both China and Iran to strengthen their ties more than the past. China and Iran face challenges and strive to achieve goals in terms of sustainable development, the protection of the environment, the eradication of poverty and suppression of extremism and terrorism that threaten the world every day. We believe that common problems need common solutions thus requiring greater cooperation, coordination and close communication.
I would posit here that while our glorious past inspires us to look to one another and our present relationship sets the framework for our cooperation, it is indeed our futures that bind us. China and Iran share a vision of sovereign states with independent foreign policies across the Asian continent being connected, prospering together and realizing their potential and their true places in the world.
We both favor multilateralism in global affairs but that has come under attack now more than ever. History is littered with exploitative powers but China has sought connection to countries around the world with a focus on mutual respect, dignity and joint interests. China and Iran support fair and balanced commercial ties around the world and we both face overseas hostility by populist unilateralist bigotry.
Iran showed constructive flexibility to reach a compromise with world powers in a nuclear deal that became recognized as a historic diplomatic achievement and an important pillar of a global arms control regime. China was a part of those negotiations and has shown fidelity to its commitments, but certain participants have not. How we respond to this maximalism and this blatant violation of international commitments and law may have a defining impact on our ability to reach for that shared vision of our continent's future.
It is here that the special role of regionally and internationally influential countries in the world - like China and Iran - is critical to save international peace and security for all. The most important and effective response is for us to support one another's sovereignty and expand our economic cooperation. As our forefathers did in ancient times, we must follow the Silk Road to an inclusive cultural and economic enrichment. Iran has already begun its efforts to implement this idea.
Inspired by the Belt and Road Initiative, and to build strategic mutual trust, the Islamic Republic of Iran and the People's Republic of China have jointly worked on a guideline for future cooperation, which is a manifestation of the fact that the two countries' cooperation is now entering a new phase.
Any successful strategic partnership demands a strong foundation of economic relations that benefits both parties. As we move forward, it is essential to look toward future trends. The economy of the future will be based on knowledge, technology and innovation. In order to position our economies and commercial ties to benefit from the current outlook, we express our determination to engage and contribute effectively to China's plan to build a world-leading base for science, technology and innovation.
Regarding current developments, Iran strongly supports China's position on the so-called "trade war" and regards the protectionist approach of the US and its abandonment of rules-based trade concepts as being counterproductive, unreasonable and destructive. Moreover, Iran has always strongly supported the "One China Policy", praised the achievements of "one country, two systems" and rejected any interference in the internal affairs of China.
Iran commends China's continued support for Iran's peaceful nuclear program and effective actions in order to overcome illegal and unilateral sanctions that have hindered Iran from realizing the economic benefits promised in the deal.
There is a strong consensus among international relations scholars that the twenty-first century will be an Asian century. As much of the challenges faced by Iran and China, certain quarters of the West have shown, not every actor in the international community is ready to embrace that future. In these circumstances, the steadfast cooperation between China and Iran, as two countries with a deep commitment to a connected and prosperous Asia, is essential and indispensable.
The author is foreign minister of Islamic Republic of Iran. opinion@globaltimes.com.cn
@Max
For the last few years Indian members would say same thing when I said India would dump Iran when USA shouted out loud enough. And look what happened. Hero to Zero.
Pakistan has not moved closer. Relationship with USA remains transactional. China remains the fulcrum of Pakistan's foreign policy. Ditto for China. But bagging Iran would add meat to a united Western Asia.
@Max @Mangus Ortus Novem @Irfan Baloch read this guys.
Opinion
This Isn’t About Iran. It’s About China.
In a world of global financial markets, 5G networks and cyberwar, geography still rules. The two shipping lanes in the Strait of Hormuz, each two miles wide, hold the key to the Persian Gulf and roughly half of the world’s proven oil reserves and production capacity. That is why the recent attacks, widely assumed to have been ordered by Iran, on tankers in the Gulf of Oman, a strategic waterway just outside the Strait, have frayed geopolitical nerves the world over.
The Iranians understand that because geography is so precious in the Gulf region, small actions have magnified effects. Likewise, the Americans know that in the constricted waters of the Gulf, their large warships are prone to attacks by Iranian swarm boats, even as Iran’s proximity to Saudi Arabia threatens that fragile kingdom and American ally. Truly, the Middle East faces a crisis of room.
Yet geography tells a more important story in the Gulf region: The current tensions are less about Iran and the Persian Gulf than about China and the Indian Ocean. Whether the Trump administration realizes it or not, what is occurring in the American-Iranian standoff is about something much vaster.
The Gulf of Oman separates not only Oman and Iran, but also Oman and Pakistan. In the southwestern corner of Pakistan, close to the Iranian border, China has completed a state-of-the-art container port at Gwadar, which Beijing hopes will eventually link up with roads, railways and pipelines to western China. And from Gwadar, the Chinese can monitor shipping traffic through the Strait of Hormuz.
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Agree to disagree, or disagree better? We'll help you understand the sharpest arguments on the most pressing issues of the week, from new and familiar voices.
contemplating the construction of a naval base nearby, adjacent to the Iranian border. More crucially, the Gulf of Oman has become more than just a waterway for oil that America, with its shale gas revolution, requires less and less of. It is a hinge uniting the Middle East, the Indian subcontinent and East Asia in China’s Belt and Road Initiative.
While the United States contemplates a war with Iran, the Chinese are engaged in trade and infrastructure building there. Gwadar is central to the maritime aspect of the Belt and Road Initiative, but China’s interest in Iran is about both land and sea. The routes that China has already built across Central Asia link China with Iran — an unbeatable combination in Eurasia, where Iran is a demographic and geographic organizing point.
An American war with Iran will drive the country even further into the hands of China, which already accounts for almost a third of all Iran’s energy trade. While China’s energy ties with Iran may be curtailed as a result of the Trump administration’s sanctions, as well as by the complexities of the Beijing-Washington trade talks, China and Iran will eventually find a way to cooperate and thwart the United States.
The Gulf of Oman remains a focus of the Belt and Road Initiative, as do, to a lesser extent, other energy-rich points along the Indian Ocean. The aim is to get oil and gas transported directly by pipeline north into China, since the Strait of Malacca, which runs between Malaysia and Indonesia and upon which China currently depends for much of its imported oil, is, like the Strait of Hormuz, too narrow for comfort. Again, it is all about geography.
It isn’t only China that is central to the Persian Gulf region. The Indians and Iranians are competing with China and Pakistan to unite the Gulf of Oman with the Eurasian interior, in the hope of linking southeastern Iran with energy-rich Central Asia. It is unclear which effort will succeed — the Chinese-Pakistani one, the Indian-Iranian one, or both. In any case, the United States is simply not in this game.
Iran is at the very center of 21st-century geopolitics. It dominates Central Asian trade routes and sits at the hydrocarbon nexus of the Indian Ocean, with a coastline of over 1,500 miles stretching from Iraq to Pakistan. Iran is the key to China’s plans, just as China’s plans are key to Eurasia’s destiny.
Indeed, China has a grand strategy that understands all this geography and culture. The United States, by contrast, is pursuing a myopic, war-by-choice strategy with Iran. Its withdrawal from the free-trading alliance in maritime Eurasia, known as the Trans-Pacific Partnership, shows that Washington has no plan to compete with the Belt and Road Initiative. The Americans are obsessed with the Persian Gulf as a small, distinct region; the Chinese see the larger, more fluid geographical picture.
Of course, Iran does present a challenge to peace in the Middle East and to America’s allies in particular. But Iran’s clerical regime has too many power centers and is too deeply institutionalized to be toppled by impulsive military action. Indeed, regime change in Iran could lead to a worse state of affairs, with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corp in direct control, rather than in indirect control as now.
The Chinese vision for Iran to be a hub for its Belt and Road Initiative is something the United States is simply not going to change. A better approach is a suite of economic pressures, targeted cyber attacks and resumed negotiations — combined with loud, persistent calls for increased freedoms in Iran and the other participants in the initiative, as a way to undermine China’s position.
Washington is half a world away from Eurasia. Without a big idea, the United States will be unable to compete with China. As for Iran, because of the blunt fact of geography it will be key to 21st-century Eurasia, something which argues for a long-term, sustainable strategy.
Robert D. Kaplan is a managing director for global Macro at Eurasia Group and the author, most recently, of “The Return of Marco Polo’s World: War, Strategy and American Interests in the Twenty-First Century.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/26/opinion/trump-iran-china.html
war&peace
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Then they will be left with nationalistic ego & arrogance.
Fawadqasim1
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Sir nationalism is always better than theocracy
Indus Pakistan
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Which is essential quality in any great nation. Just look at Turkish nationalism and ego.
war&peace
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