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Iranian Chill Thread

It’s probably too early to tell but where would you put each respective sides goals at? Has one achieved theirs more so than the others thus far?

I feel like if Hamas did this to bring the Palestinian issue back to the forefront then they sure as hell succeed (?).

Hamas was about to lose out because Arab leaders once again turned their back on their own. They were all rushing to normalize with Israel, after which any incentive to a two state solution goes out the door for Israel. UAE sold out the Palestinians for some killswitch enabled nerfed F-35’s. Kind of sad.

This is problem with Arab people, most don’t understand. If you strip away Islam, If you strip away Shia vs Sunni, they are tribal. Even in Iraq. Saddam’s most trusted key men of power came from his tribe in Tikrit. Had nothing to do with Sunni or Shia. But tribe.

Post-Iraq This is why Solemani was so important he had relations with these various tribes going back decades to the Iraq war itself like the Badr group and Al-Sadr family. Hence even Kurdish tribes would heed his advice. They knew at the end of day the only consistent “power” who planned was Iran.

Everyone else flip flopped as time went on. Look at the Qatar embargo for instance. They don’t hesitate to punish their own. America abandons it’s “brown” Allies routinely, just look at what they allowed happen to Iraq as ISIS rolled thru. They only came in once they saw Iran was taking the lion share of the defense. Or else their plan was to allow Iraq to get so desperate and negotiate a new occupation agreeement. Iran thrawted that. Look at how they allowed the Turks to crush their ally Kurds in Syria.

Anyway You can’t make tribal people want to die for some random tribe in another “country”. This was true in 1967 and Yom Kippur war. The poor performance of Arab nations can be tied to a lack of unity and cohesion. After Arab nationalism failed (Egypt & Syria) both countries retreated back to their tribal roots or religious sects.

The last 15 years or so saw some unification of identity under “Sunni” umbrella and this was a seserpate attempt by Arab leaders who vividly knew their populations are not nationalistic so they unified them under sectarianism —the only tool in their arsenal against Iran. This was also briefly done after 1979 revolution when Iran raised the Basij and Arab Sunni leaders feared that 8M+ Shiite army would overrun the entire Middle East. Hence they backed Saddam to the tune of 30B+ dollars (in 1980 dollars btw) to keep the war going against Iran so he wouldn’t lose Karbala. The US+UK+France sold chemical precursors to fight off the Shia momentum and cause a stalement. Of course Iran made some tactical mistakes as well (human waves, using tanks as fixed artillery, etc).

to summarize: Arabs have a self identity crisis much like Africans they are tribal and lack cohesion and long term planning that Iranians, the imperialists, and Chinese specialize in for centuries . They simply don’t trust each other and don’t hesitate to back stab the other. Which makes building a coalition impossible.

Now today with this conflict, Iran got its “dream” scenario which is to rally the Arab world against Israel via the Palestinian cause. To finally look good in the eyes of Arab people who viewed them as a Shia threat more than Israel ever could be.

Except Iran just realized (or likely knew) that other than some empty words and gestures this isn’t 1967 anymore. The Arabs do not war with Israel nor do they want to help the Axis in any shape or form. They know if Iran weakens Israel then they will be next on the list. So they need a strong Israel to contain Iran. As much as they rely on USA they know that America is going to pivot to Asia for the Great Power Games of the coming decade(s) against China. America simply does not have enough military resources to contain Russia/Iran/China at the same time. It’s already spending $1T
/yr on its military. How long is that sustainable? At the current rate it could be $2T by the start of 2040 especially as it struggles to recruit younger generation population to sign up. The ones who do sign up are mostly fat or out of shape so now they are having to lower the bar of acceptance. These new soldiers are not your troops of 1980s - 2010s, they are lost misguided and emotional.

As for has either side gained what they wanted? No both sides are losing. Bibi lost his career and Israel lost its image. The ongoing civilian casualties points to the fact that Israel only knows how to fight war on one term —scorched earth policy. Everyone else fights war in 21st century while Israel is stuck in antiquity.

Hamas underestimated the war to this point wether that is from Israeli capability of dropping more bombs than US dropped in afghanistan in any given year. Or thought Arab countries would help out more. Or thought Axis would. I’m not sure.

It appears at the minimum Hamas delayed further Arab recognition of Israel. Israel will gain a new land enclave and only have to sacrifice a few thousand Jews for it. So both sides “won” in these respects.

I’m not sure where this conflict is headed at this point or what a Post Hamas led Gaza looks like to be honest. Lot of moving variables and the conflict could shift a different direction at a moments notice.
 
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Hamas was about to lose out because Arab leaders once again turned their back on their own. They were all rushing to normalize with Israel, after which any incentive to a two state solution goes out the door for Israel. UAE sold out the Palestinians for some killswitch enabled nerfed F-35’s. Kind of sad.

This is problem with Arab people, most don’t understand. If you strip away Islam, If you strip away Shia vs Sunni, they are tribal. Even in Iraq. Saddam’s most trusted key men of power came from his tribe in Tikrit. Had nothing to do with Sunni or Shia. But tribe.

Post-Iraq This is why Solemani was so important he had relations with these various tribes going back decades to the Iraq war itself like the Badr group and Al-Sadr family. Hence even Kurdish tribes would heed his advice. They knew at the end of day the only consistent “power” who planned was Iran.

Everyone else flip flopped as time went on. Look at the Qatar embargo for instance. They don’t hesitate to punish their own. America abandons it’s “brown” Allies routinely, just look at what they allowed happen to Iraq as ISIS rolled thru. They only came in once they saw Iran was taking the lion share of the defense. Or else their plan was to allow Iraq to get so desperate and negotiate a new occupation agreeement. Iran thrawted that. Look at how they allowed the Turks to crush their ally Kurds in Syria.

Anyway You can’t make tribal people want to die for some random tribe in another “country”. This was true in 1967 and Yom Kippur war. The poor performance of Arab nations can be tied to a lack of unity and cohesion. After Arab nationalism failed (Egypt & Syria) both countries retreated back to their tribal roots or religious sects.

The last 15 years or so saw some unification of identity under “Sunni” umbrella and this was a seserpate attempt by Arab leaders who vividly knew their populations are not nationalistic so they unified them under sectarianism —the only tool in their arsenal against Iran. This was also briefly done after 1979 revolution when Iran raised the Basij and Arab Sunni leaders feared that 8M+ Shiite army would overrun the entire Middle East. Hence they backed Saddam to the tune of 30B+ dollars (in 1980 dollars btw) to keep the war going against Iran so he wouldn’t lose Karbala. The US+UK+France sold chemical precursors to fight off the Shia momentum and cause a stalement. Of course Iran made some tactical mistakes as well (human waves, using tanks as fixed artillery, etc).

to summarize: Arabs have a self identity crisis much like Africans they are tribal and lack cohesion and long term planning that Iranians, the imperialists, and Chinese specialize in for centuries . They simply don’t trust each other and don’t hesitate to back stab the other. Which makes building a coalition impossible.

Now today with this conflict, Iran got its “dream” scenario which is to rally the Arab world against Israel via the Palestinian cause. To finally look good in the eyes of Arab people who viewed them as a Shia threat more than Israel ever could be.

Except Iran just realized (or likely knew) that other than some empty words and gestures this isn’t 1967 anymore. The Arabs do not war with Israel nor do they want to help the Axis in any shape or form. They know if Iran weakens Israel then they will be next on the list. So they need a strong Israel to contain Iran. As much as they rely on USA they know that America is going to pivot to Asia for the Great Power Games of the coming decade(s) against China. America simply does not have enough military resources to contain Russia/Iran/China at the same time. It’s already spending $1T
/yr on its military. How long is that sustainable? At the current rate it could be $2T by the start of 2040 especially as it struggles to recruit younger generation population to sign up. The ones who do sign up are mostly fat or out of shape so now they are having to lower the bar of acceptance. These new soldiers are not your troops of 1980s - 2010s, they are lost misguided and emotional.

As for has either side gained what they wanted? No both sides are losing. Bibi lost his career and Israel lost its image. The ongoing civilian casualties points to the fact that Israel only knows how to fight war on one term —scorched earth policy. Everyone else fights war in 21st century while Israel is stuck in antiquity.

Hamas underestimated the war to this point wether that is from Israeli capability of dropping more bombs than US dropped in afghanistan in any given year. Or thought Arab countries would help out more. Or thought Axis would. I’m not sure.

It appears at the minimum Hamas delayed further Arab recognition of Israel. Israel will gain a new land enclave and only have to sacrifice a few thousand Jews for it. So both sides “won” in these respects.

I’m not sure where this conflict is headed at this point or what a Post Hamas led Gaza looks like to be honest. Lot of moving variables and the conflict could shift a different direction at a moments notice.

Much appreciated! I agree with many of your points. Must be awfully demoralizing for Palestinians to realize that many Arab nations have essentially abandoned their cause… Iran really does emerge as a positive leader for their plight, without question.
 
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IMG_20231107_125555_950.jpg
 
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Conventional forces to overthrow Iran? No. Don’t exist in reality. Saddam couldn’t even break the Iranian border region with a 1M man army and one of the biggest military forces on earth (at the time) in 1980’s.

There is near zero chance any foreign power could successfully land invade Iran. You would need more than 1M soldiers maybe as high as 2M. Iran is a massive mountainous country with its cities located in mountain terrain and a large armed forces + militia (Basij) to back them up. This makes land invasion a political non stater for USA.

Now on the nuclear end there is a risk (for Iran). Regarding the point I made above where a global power like US also realizes the futility of land invasion option, would try to make Iran surrender using the same rationale/justification as nuclear strikes on Japan. (i.e. That the invasion of Japan would have been too costly on both sides and that nuclear strikes saved more lives and kept devastation minimized)

Now the chance that US would do pre-emptive nuclear strikes on Iranian military assets and leadership to cause unilateral surrender is very very low —as long as nuclear weapons stay in Pandora’s box and MAD doctrine is upheld by all nuclear powers. The second it is broken —every country with nukes or close to nukes will be ready to use it at a moments notice ie a Global Cold War.

So US does not have the conventional tools to change Iran in any menagonfil way. If they did, 2020 Trump and the neocons had the greenlight after Al-Assad Missile attack to conduct a “shock and awe 2.0” and yet they didn’t.
Well he said hit, he didn't say invade.

I presume he was speaking about air and naval engagements. I wouldn't say he's wrong either, Iran will take damage, we have our own guys saying that industry will be damaged back to 20-30 years, therefore not favourable to risk open conflict unless absolutely needed (in self-defence)
 
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Anyone thinking Hamas/Palestinian resistance is going to be deleted/destroyed and occupied is believing in propaganda without being conscious of it, Hamas will stay and if US decides to directly be involved with airstrikes, HZ/others will not stay idle, US is at the same level of IDF for urban warfare and they will take heavy shots and casualties and their personal fighting for the sake of Israel. For a while people were saying Iran is doing nothing, HZ is doing nothing, yet they did and managed to kill a large number of zionists, since Israel bombs civilian areas, it will be very hard to know how many Hamas soldiers died, but i doubt the crew in those machines survived

Take the place of the personel, each meter done and they risk to die instantly without knowing what happened, 0 infantry support because of the massive number of SVD/12.7 hunters, add to this the no-morale and no training of IDF for anything else than carpet bombing and you have it all
 
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Lets analyze potential US-Iran war.

What US conventional military can do to Iran?

US NAVY:

If US Navy stays in the Persian Gulf, with high probability, their ships will experience the fate of Russian cruiser Moskva. In the event of war, US Navy will have to leave the Persian Gulf and operate from the coast of Oman beyond the range of Iranian anti-ship cruise missiles, anti-ship ballistic missiles and drones. Also the Straight of Hormuz will be closed with Iranian mines, missiles and drones.

If US Navy has to operate from the coast of Oman then F-18 can’t reach Tehran. Assuming US Navy concentrates 7-8 aircraft carrier battle groups, that is equal to 700 F-18 combat aircrafts and F-18 has a combat radius of only 800kms.

F-18 will have to fly 900kms from Arabian Sea to Qatari airspace, make aerial refueling there, and then enter Iranian airspace, and with combat radius of only 800kms they can only bomb southern and central Iran. Greater Tehran region which is home to 20% of Iran’s population and 50% of Iran’s industry will be beyond the range of F-18.
1699379342058.png

While making sorties to Iran, F-18s will have to make two aerial refuelings which will put strain on aerial refueling tankers, and also huge distances will reduce the total number of sorties by each F-18.

Iran claims to have 1500km range anti-ship ballistic missile. It is possible that Russian and Chinese satellites and Iranian patrol drones will try to locate US Navy in the Arabian Sea and if US vessels are located, they can be targeted by Iranian 1500km range anti-ship ballistic missiles.

US AIR FORCE:

It will take couple of weeks for US Air Force to deploy to airfields of Saudi Arabia, which has 25-30 airbases and civilian airports. However most of their airfields are located only 300km away from Iran, Iraq, Yemen and are vulnerable to strikes by cheap kamikaze drones and short-range ballistic missiles. These bases must be evacuated and combat aircrafts must be deployed to far away located bases beyond the range of Iran’s large arsenal of short-range ballistic missiles and drones.
1699379401695.png

There are roughly 13-15 airbases and airports in central and western Saudi Arabia which are located 700km-1200km away from Iran and its clients. These airfields will have to house roughly 1500 combat aircrafts, which means 100 combat aircrafts per base.

There are no hardened shelters in Saudi airbases and US aircrafts will be parked like this:
1699379439156.png

These aircrafts will be vulnerable to strikes by ballistic missiles with cluster warheads, cheap kamikaze drones and cruise missiles.

Against 1500 combat aircrafts, Iran can use 1500 medium and long range ballistic missiles, 600-800 cruise missiles and thousands of Shahed-136/Arash-2 kamikaze drones. Even if Iranian strikes will be 30% effective, US will lose hundreds of aircrafts and will not be able to conduct effective air campaign.

Russia and China will provide real-time targeting data to Iran from their satellites.

Most of aircrafts of US Air Force are F-16s that have a combat radius of only 540km. F-16s will have to make multiple aerial refuelings for reaching Western and Southern Iran, while Greater Tehran region and Mashhad will be beyond the range of F-16s.

Iran can use its kamikaze drones/cruise missiles/ballistic missiles to target fuel depots, aerial refueling tankers, transport aircrafts, ammunition storage facilities and runways for the purpose of paralyzing US Air Force (with Russia and China providing precise targeting data from their satellites).

Also both US Navy and US Air Force have to establish air superiority by suppressing Iranian air defense systems. 3rd Khordad is 15 years, 15th Khordad is 10 years and Bavar 373 is 8 years in mass production, so there might be multilayered air defense network in Iran.

US GROUND FORCE AND MARINE CORP:

It can take 3 weeks for Iran to concentrate 200.000 troops and 1500 tanks in Khuzestan province and attack 1-2 armored brigades US has in Kuwait. Iran can invade Kuwait and create threat to Saudi oil fields, while Shias in Bahrain and Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia will rebel against local governments.

In the previous Gulf Wars it took 6 month for US ground force to arrive to the region. However, this time Iran will close the Straight of Hormuz, while Houthis will close the Bab-el-Mandeb Straight with drones, cruise and ballistic missiles.

Since Straight of Hormuz will be closed, while passing through the Straight of Bab-el Mandeb will be dangerous, US will have to deploy its ground force in Western Saudi Arabia via the Red Sea ports and move from there towards Eastern part of the Arabian Peninsula for the purpose of protecting Saudi oil fields.

There are several ports in the Red Sea and Israel that can be used for deployment of US ground force: Port of Eilat in Israel, Port of Yanbu and port of Jeddah in Saudi Arabia.
1699379470187.png

However, Port of Jeddah is only 60km away from Mecca, while Port of Yanbu is 140km away from Medina. Mass deployment of infidel forces who fight on the side of Jews against 5 Muslim states (Lebabon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Iran) near Masjid Al Haram and Masjid an-Nabawi will cause upheaval throughout the Islamic world and completely discredit the Saudi royal family. And it is not clear whether Port of Eilat alone has a capacity to handle mass deployment of US ground force.

But even if they deploy in Western part of the Arabian Peninsula, distance to Ghawar oil field is 1200km and supplying hundreds of thousands of US soldiers at that distances will be a huge logistical challenge even for US.

US Marine Corp can arrive faster than US Ground Force, but they have light equipment.

And then US has 5000 Tomohawk cruise missiles. But most of these missiles are old and unreliable as 2017 Shayrat airbase strike showed. During that strike on Syrian airbase most Tomohawk missiles failed to hit their targets. Assuming US Tomohawk strikes will be 30% effective, US can hit 800 targets in Iran with 1600 Tomohawks (2 Tomohawk missiles are usually launched per each target).

Finally, we have to answer the question - what are the goals of US war with Iran? There can be 2 goals:

1) Fight Iran for the purpose of helping Israel in its war against the Axis of Resistance

2) Punish Iran by weakening it with massive bombing campaign.

But 1) helping Israel by sacrificing Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and entire Persian Gulf oil infrastructure is not a good idea and 2) punishing Iran by bombing campaign is not a good idea either, because Iran’s response in the Straight of Hormuz and against oil infrastructure of the region will devastate global economy in general and US economy in particular.

Conclusion is that US has no good options for fighting Iran and its Axis of Resistance.

1) US Ground Force can arrive only after 7-9 months and they can’t enter the Persian Gulf and if they operate from the ports of the Red Sea, their overland supply line will be 1200km long.

2) US Navy will have to operate from the Arabian Sea and this will reduce F-18 sortie rates, while putting strain on aerial refueling tankers.

3) US Air Force will have limited number of airfields for mass deployment and those airfields will be under massive ballistic missile/cruise missile/drone strikes of Iran with Russia and China using their satellites to provide precise targeting data to Iran.

4) There is multilayered air defense network in Iran with multiple indigenous air defense systems and most US combat aircrafts don't have the range to reach more developed regions of Iran like Greater Tehran region (20% of the population and 50% of Iran’s industry), Tabriz or Mashhad.

5) There are no clear goals of this war, while Iran’s response in the Straight of Hormuz and Bab-el-Mandeb will devastate global economy.
 
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Lets analyze potential US-Iran war.

What US conventional military can do to Iran?

US NAVY:

If US Navy stays in the Persian Gulf, with high probability, their ships will experience the fate of Russian cruiser Moskva. In the event of war, US Navy will have to leave the Persian Gulf and operate from the coast of Oman beyond the range of Iranian anti-ship cruise missiles, anti-ship ballistic missiles and drones. Also the Straight of Hormuz will be closed with Iranian mines, missiles and drones.

If US Navy has to operate from the coast of Oman then F-18 can’t reach Tehran. Assuming US Navy concentrates 7-8 aircraft carrier battle groups, that is equal to 700 F-18 combat aircrafts and F-18 has a combat radius of only 800kms.

F-18 will have to fly 900kms from Arabian Sea to Qatari airspace, make aerial refueling there, and then enter Iranian airspace, and with combat radius of only 800kms they can only bomb southern and central Iran. Greater Tehran region which is home to 20% of Iran’s population and 50% of Iran’s industry will be beyond the range of F-18.
View attachment 970254
While making sorties to Iran, F-18s will have to make two aerial refuelings which will put strain on aerial refueling tankers, and also huge distances will reduce the total number of sorties by each F-18.

Iran claims to have 1500km range anti-ship ballistic missile. It is possible that Russian and Chinese satellites and Iranian patrol drones will try to locate US Navy in the Arabian Sea and if US vessels are located, they can be targeted by Iranian 1500km range anti-ship ballistic missiles.

US AIR FORCE:

It will take couple of weeks for US Air Force to deploy to airfields of Saudi Arabia, which has 25-30 airbases and civilian airports. However most of their airfields are located only 300km away from Iran, Iraq, Yemen and are vulnerable to strikes by cheap kamikaze drones and short-range ballistic missiles. These bases must be evacuated and combat aircrafts must be deployed to far away located bases beyond the range of Iran’s large arsenal of short-range ballistic missiles and drones.
View attachment 970262
There are roughly 13-15 airbases and airports in central and western Saudi Arabia which are located 700km-1200km away from Iran and its clients. These airfields will have to house roughly 1500 combat aircrafts, which means 100 combat aircrafts per base.

There are no hardened shelters in Saudi airbases and US aircrafts will be parked like this:
View attachment 970264
These aircrafts will be vulnerable to strikes by ballistic missiles with cluster warheads, cheap kamikaze drones and cruise missiles.

Against 1500 combat aircrafts, Iran can use 1500 medium and long range ballistic missiles, 600-800 cruise missiles and thousands of Shahed-136/Arash-2 kamikaze drones. Even if Iranian strikes will be 30% effective, US will lose hundreds of aircrafts and will not be able to conduct effective air campaign.

Russia and China will provide real-time targeting data to Iran from their satellites.

Most of aircrafts of US Air Force are F-16s that have a combat radius of only 540km. F-16s will have to make multiple aerial refuelings for reaching Western and Southern Iran, while Greater Tehran region and Mashhad will be beyond the range of F-16s.

Iran can use its kamikaze drones/cruise missiles/ballistic missiles to target fuel depots, aerial refueling tankers, transport aircrafts, weapon storage facilities and runways for the purpose of paralyzing US Air Force (with Russia and China providing precise targeting data from their satellites).

Also both US Navy and US Air Force have to establish air superiority by suppressing Iranian air defense systems. 3rd Khordad is 15 years, 15th Khordad is 10 years and Bavar 373 is 8 years in mass production, so there might be multilayered air defense network in Iran.

US GROUND FORCE AND MARINE CORP:

It can take 3 weeks for Iran to concentrate 200.000 troops and 1500 tanks in Khuzestan province and attack 1-2 armored brigades US has in Kuwait. Iran can invade Kuwait and create threat to Saudi oil fields, while Shias in Bahrain and Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia will rebel against local governments.

In the previous Gulf Wars it took 6 month for US ground force to arrive to the region. However, this time Iran will close the Straight of Hormuz, while Houthis will close the Bab-el-Mandeb Straight with drones, cruise and ballistic missiles.

Since Straight of Hormuz will be closed, while passing through the Straight of Bab-el Mandeb will be dangerous, US will have to deploy its ground force in Western Saudi Arabia via the Red Sea ports and move from there towards Eastern part of the Arabian Peninsula for the purpose of protecting Saudi oil fields.

There are several ports in the Red Sea and Israel that can be used for deployment of US ground force: Port of Eilat in Israel, Port of Yanbu and port of Jeddah in Saudi Arabia.
View attachment 970265
However, Port of Jeddah is only 60km away from Mecca, while Port of Yanbu is 140km away from Medina. Mass deployment of infidel forces who fight on the side of Jews against 5 Muslim states (Lebabon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Iran) near Masjid Al Haram and Masjid an-Nabawi will cause upheaval throughout the Islamic world and completely discredit the Saudi royal family. And it is not clear whether Port of Eilat alone has a capacity to handle mass deployment of US ground force.

But even if they deploy in Western part of the Arabian Peninsula, distance to Ghawar oil field is 1200km and supplying hundreds of thousands of US soldiers at that distances will be a huge logistical challenge even for US.

US Marine Corp can arrive faster than US Ground Force, but they have light equipment.

And then US has 5000 Tomohawk cruise missiles. But most of these missiles are old and unreliable as 2017 Shayrat airbase strike showed. During that strike on Syrian airbase most Tomohawk missiles failed to hit their targets. Assuming US Tomohawk strikes will be 30% effective, US can hit 800 targets in Iran with 1600 Tomohawks (2 Tomohawk missiles are usually launched per each target).

Finally, we have to answer the question - what are the goals of US war with Iran? There can be 2 goals:

1) Fight Iran for the purpose of helping Israel in its war against the Axis of Resistance

2) Punish Iran by weakening it with massive bombing campaign.

But 1) helping Israel by sacrificing Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and entire Persian Gulf oil infrastructure is not a good idea and 2) punishing Iran by bombing campaign is not a good idea either, because Iran’s response in the Straight of Hormuz and against oil infrastructure of the region will devastate global economy in general and US economy in particular.

Conclusion is that US has no good options for fighting Iran and its Axis of Resistance.

1) US Ground Force can arrive only after 7-9 months and they can’t enter the Persian Gulf and if they operate from the ports of the Red Sea, their overland supply line will be 1200km long.

2) US Navy will have to operate from the Arabian Sea and this will reduce F-18 sortie rates, while putting strain on aerial refueling tankers.

3) US Air Force will have limited number of airfields for mass deployment and they will be under massive ballistic missile/cruise missile/drone strikes of Iran with Russia and China using their satellites to provide precise targeting data to Iran.

4) There is multilayered air defense network in Iran with multiple indigenous air defense systems and most US combat aircrafts will not be able to reach more developed regions of Iran like Greater Tehran region (50% of Iran’s industry), Tabriz or Mashhad.

5) There are no clear goals of this war, while Iran’s response in the Straight of Hormuz and Bab-el-Mandeb will devastate global economy.
Listen, in France we pay 2euros for a liter of gasoline, people rioted and protested against that, they were forced to reduce the price by having even more debt towards Total Energies.

This is the same case as most people here who lives in Europe.

So if the straight of Hormuz is closed, the price of a liter of gasoline could go very high (i don't know what would be the effects), but if the price goes above something like 5 euros for a liter of gasoline in a country where most people earn 1500-2500 of salary, people will not stay idle and refuel their car for 450 euros to go to work, i will be the first to protest against it.
 
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