Thank you for the laugh
Iranian Chill Thread
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Timeline of Iranian history according to regime change people:
-Cyrus wrote the UN human rights charter and freed the Jews (which means Iran is an historical friend of Israel and must support Israel)
-Sassanids killed some Muslim Arabs
-Fast forward 1500 years (Nothing to see here)
-Reza Pahlavi claims the throne and copy pastes Europe onto Iran.
-His tolerant son continues his fathers work of bringing prosperity and liberty to Iran.
-Foreign Islamists take control and institute islamic law, which was completely alien to Iranian society prior to 1979.
-The Islamists randomly choose to fight the Americans and benevolent Israelis without any reason
-Cyrus wrote the UN human rights charter and freed the Jews (which means Iran is an historical friend of Israel and must support Israel)
-Sassanids killed some Muslim Arabs
-Fast forward 1500 years (Nothing to see here)
-Reza Pahlavi claims the throne and copy pastes Europe onto Iran.
-His tolerant son continues his fathers work of bringing prosperity and liberty to Iran.
-Foreign Islamists take control and institute islamic law, which was completely alien to Iranian society prior to 1979.
-The Islamists randomly choose to fight the Americans and benevolent Israelis without any reason
TheImmortal
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lydian fall
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Ignore them
jauk
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As I mentioned before..these two "I love Iran so much I want it to be bombed" individual accounts have been activated again..one is in Canada and the other one is in Albania..put them together they read (Dariush shah!!!!)..lol
I find their efforts quite enjoyable. Traitors and Iran haters are a great bunch!
You ooze the liquid smell of burnt buttocks. One can’t help but wonder to what extent the wedgie is the IRI has given you .It’s hilarious! Carry on. PLEASE!
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SalarHaqq
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Not really. To us Iranians and West Asians, WW2 is not the alpha and omega of human history nor the near exclusive state-sanctioned source of ethics, against which every current event must be measured as is the case in the west. In that sense, there's no problem for government-run news websites in Iran to publish images like these, which like you said have nothing to do with the NS-salute anyway. We don't want the west and the zionists to impose their political culture and its norms onto us, do we. Imperialism begins right here, in the realm of collective representations and references. We won't allow such a thing.
The martyrdom of Seyyed al-Shohada (a.s.) is the universal cornerstone of discrimination between good and evil in politics. And the genocide of Iranians at the hands of the British empire during WW1 the recent historic example most relevant to us of a higher level crime.
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SalarHaqq
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GDP growth is not necessarily the exclusive be all and end all for guaranteeing acceptable living standards. Also trading with every country openly is not a sine qua non pre-condition for prosperity.
Who told you we have no objections against current economic policies? Personally, I shared several videos from Jedaal for instance, where economic policy is discussed and criticized, and constructive proposals for betterment made. "Regime change" definitely doesn't fall under this category - it's a recipe for permanent pauperization of the Iranian people, in addition to tons of additional horrendous calamities it would bring upon them.
Incomes were raised as well.
Source?
The latest data from authoritative institutions puts the poverty rate at 30,5%, this is therefore the figure to go by. A legacy of the western-appeasing Rohani administration. So much for the supposed "benefits" of giving up a principled policy of Resistance in vain hopes of sanctions relief. Gaddafi and Libya being another case in point.
Have you researched what's actually going on on the economic front in Iran? The different points of view on how to solve the issue of inflation, who advocates what type of response and why, where the government stands on the question?
Because one thing's for sure, of the cursory and deeply flawed, slogan-like pseudo-analyses spewed by foreign mainstream media and by the exiled opposition, none will provide any useful insight into the topic.
Want to learn a thing or two about the stakes and the technicalities to form a properly informed opinion, focus on local Iranian media, including dissident voices which do not adhere to the dominant monetarist theory. If that's not accessible enough, watch Jedaal's presentations where economists from Iran are invited as guest speakers.
The Palestinians tried that already with the Oslo Accords. Tel Aviv however showed its lack of interest in a just and viable peace process.
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Cancerous Tumor
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از یک طرف دعوت به نقد و انتقاد کردن و جالبه که این دعوت با استناد به رفتار آقای خامنهای داره توجیه میشه اونم از طریق وب سایت خبری قوه قضاییه
www.mizanonline.ir
از طرف دیگه فضا رو فشرده نشون دادن با دادگاهی کردن روزنامه و روزنامه نگار ( جائی که باید تیزترین و برندهترین قلم ها اونجا باشه )
www.khabaronline.ir
دو گانگیهای این شکلی توجیه ناپذیر هستند
فیلم یکی از دیدارهای خصوصی مرحوم صابری با آیتالله خامنهای
پایگاه اطلاع رسانی اخبار رهبر انقلاب در سالگرد درگذشت مرحوم کیومرث صابری، فیلم یکی از دیدارهای خصوصی مرحوم صابری با آیتالله خامنهای را منتشر کرد.
از طرف دیگه فضا رو فشرده نشون دادن با دادگاهی کردن روزنامه و روزنامه نگار ( جائی که باید تیزترین و برندهترین قلم ها اونجا باشه )
ÙØ§Ø¬Ø±Ø§Û Ø§Ø¯Ø§ÙÙâدار کارÛکاتÙر سردار رادا٠در رÙزÙاÙÙ ÙÙØ´ÙرÛØ Ù¾ÙÛس Ùجدد اطÙاعÛ٠داد
تسÙÛÙ ÙÙشت: Ùرکز اطÙاع رساÙÛ Ù Ø§Ø±ØªØ¨Ø§Ø·Ø§Øª ÙعاÙÙت ÙرÙÙÚ¯Û Ù Ø§Ø¬ØªÙØ§Ø¹Û Ùراجا اعÙا٠کرد: ب٠دÙبا٠اذعا٠رÙزÙاÙÙ ÙÙØ´ÙØ±Û ÙبÙÛ Ø¨Ø± ارتکاب Ø®Ø·Ø§Û ØºÛرعÙد در استÙاد٠ÙاÙÙاسب از تصÙÛر سردار راداÙØ Ù¾ÙÛس از شکاÛت...
دو گانگیهای این شکلی توجیه ناپذیر هستند
GDP growth is not necessarily the exclusive be all and end all for guaranteeing acceptable living standards. Also trading with every country openly is not a sine qua non pre-condition for prosperity.
I didn't say that GDP growth is necessarily the exclusive be all and end all for guaranteeing acceptable living standards. I said that I want Iran to be in the top ten in terms of GDPs. All the countries in the top 10 have acceptable living standards and all of them openly trade with the rest of the world.
Again if Iran cannot trade with the USA which has the largest economy in the world & the EU which has the 2nd largest economy in the world, it cannot compete with countries like Saudi Arabia or Turkey or others on a level playing field. Under the current policies Iran cannot live up to its full economic potential. It's literally impossible. The SWIFT sanctions won't even allow Iran to reach its full economic potential with India / China.
Incomes were raised as well.
Incomes might have risen (nominally) but if you consider inflation then no. In 1975 the GDP per capita was $1600. In 2023 terms, considering inflation that's $9000. By the way, that valuation is based on North American inflation rates over the years. If you consider Iranian inflation rates, it's much higher than $9000. As for now, 2021 GDP per capita was approx $4000. Now with the recent devaluation of Iran's currency, it's significantly lower than that.
From that I've read one third of the population is living in extreme poverty. The number living below the poverty line, especially with the recent devaluation of the currency is higher than that. But alright let's assume that you're right and that the previous statements by government officials were completely wrong. Let's assume that it's around 30%, even though the economic situation continues to worsen. That means that 1 in 3 Iranians is living below the poverty line. That's atrocious and unacceptable for a country as resource rich as Iran.
Have you researched what's actually going on on the economic front in Iran? The different points of view on how to solve the issue of inflation, who advocates what type of response and why, where the government stands on the question?
The government is not willing to even consider changing any of their core policies which are directly responsible for Iran's current economic woes. They also seem to be unwilling or incapable of implementing any measures that can stabilize the economy, like the Russians successfully did.
The question is, is the trade off worth it ? Are the sanctions, the price being paid by average Iranians, worth the reward ? Right now 2% of Iran's energy grid is powered by nuclear energy & Iran does not have nuclear weapons. Even if Iran acquired nuclear weapons, it might lead to military retaliation & even if Israel/US are bluffing, it would lead to all the regional powers in the middle east acquiring nuclear arms, so would Iran really be safer ? Honestly if 20-30% of Iran's energy grid was being powered by nuclear energy the government might be able to justify it, but not with a minuscule 2%.
At the same time, the whole fixation with liberating Palestine is completely irrational. Iran does not not share borders with Israel. Israel bombs Iranian proxies in Syria, their positions & weapons shipments at will without having to worry about any retaliation. What is the end goal ? Is Iran going to liberate Palestine ? No that's honestly laughable. Is Hezbollah going to do it ? Well the economic situation in Lebanon is worse than even Iran's so no.
Defending territory is one thing but going on the offensive is another matter completely. The Israelis have a formidable air force, potent air defenses, the best intelligence & an all around formidable military and they're backed by the US & NATO, which field the most powerful military on the planet. As for Syria, well Assad can't even dispose of Al Nusra in the north & he doesn't even have the balls to retaliate against the Israelis or Americans occupying 1/3rd of his country.
Again was is the average Iranian getting in exchange for this policy ? The chances of liberating Palestine are... well let's say just that a snowball has a better chance of surviving in hell than Iran has of liberating Palestine. But even if it did happen, what would Iranians tangibly gain from it ? During the Iran-Iraq war the Palestinians sided with Saddam & we all know that if the tables were turned that the Palestinians wouldn't give Iranians 1 penny. The entire policy is pointless & ruinous for Iran.
It's honestly not that complicated. The current economic policies implemented by the powers that be have failed and it's plain for everyone to see. All the nonsense rhetoric won't change the facts, the economy continues to deteriorate & peoples living standards continue to worsen.
I didn't say that GDP growth is necessarily the exclusive be all and end all for guaranteeing acceptable living standards. I said that I want Iran to be in the top ten in terms of GDPs. All the countries in the top 10 have acceptable living standards and all of them openly trade with the rest of the world.
Again if Iran cannot trade with the USA which has the largest economy in the world & the EU which has the 2nd largest economy in the world, it cannot compete with countries like Saudi Arabia or Turkey or others on a level playing field. Under the current policies Iran cannot live up to its full economic potential. It's literally impossible. The SWIFT sanctions won't even allow Iran to reach its full economic potential with India / China.
Incomes were raised as well.
Incomes might have risen (nominally) but if you consider inflation then no. In 1975 the GDP per capita was $1600. In 2023 terms, considering inflation that's $9000. By the way, that valuation is based on North American inflation rates over the years. If you consider Iranian inflation rates, it's much higher than $9000. As for now, 2021 GDP per capita was approx $4000. Now with the recent devaluation of Iran's currency, it's significantly lower than that.
From that I've read one third of the population is living in extreme poverty. The number living below the poverty line, especially with the recent devaluation of the currency is higher than that. But alright let's assume that you're right and that the previous statements by government officials were completely wrong. Let's assume that it's around 30%, even though the economic situation continues to worsen. That means that 1 in 3 Iranians is living below the poverty line. That's atrocious and unacceptable for a country as resource rich as Iran.
Have you researched what's actually going on on the economic front in Iran? The different points of view on how to solve the issue of inflation, who advocates what type of response and why, where the government stands on the question?
The government is not willing to even consider changing any of their core policies which are directly responsible for Iran's current economic woes. They also seem to be unwilling or incapable of implementing any measures that can stabilize the economy, like the Russians successfully did.
The question is, is the trade off worth it ? Are the sanctions, the price being paid by average Iranians, worth the reward ? Right now 2% of Iran's energy grid is powered by nuclear energy & Iran does not have nuclear weapons. Even if Iran acquired nuclear weapons, it might lead to military retaliation & even if Israel/US are bluffing, it would lead to all the regional powers in the middle east acquiring nuclear arms, so would Iran really be safer ? Honestly if 20-30% of Iran's energy grid was being powered by nuclear energy the government might be able to justify it, but not with a minuscule 2%.
At the same time, the whole fixation with liberating Palestine is completely irrational. Iran does not not share borders with Israel. Israel bombs Iranian proxies in Syria, their positions & weapons shipments at will without having to worry about any retaliation. What is the end goal ? Is Iran going to liberate Palestine ? No that's honestly laughable. Is Hezbollah going to do it ? Well the economic situation in Lebanon is worse than even Iran's so no.
Defending territory is one thing but going on the offensive is another matter completely. The Israelis have a formidable air force, potent air defenses, the best intelligence & an all around formidable military and they're backed by the US & NATO, which field the most powerful military on the planet. As for Syria, well Assad can't even dispose of Al Nusra in the north & he doesn't even have the balls to retaliate against the Israelis or Americans occupying 1/3rd of his country.
Again was is the average Iranian getting in exchange for this policy ? The chances of liberating Palestine are... well let's say just that a snowball has a better chance of surviving in hell than Iran has of liberating Palestine. But even if it did happen, what would Iranians tangibly gain from it ? During the Iran-Iraq war the Palestinians sided with Saddam & we all know that if the tables were turned that the Palestinians wouldn't give Iranians 1 penny. The entire policy is pointless & ruinous for Iran.
It's honestly not that complicated. The current economic policies implemented by the powers that be have failed and it's plain for everyone to see. All the nonsense rhetoric won't change the facts, the economy continues to deteriorate & peoples living standards continue to worsen.
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Again you seem to be allergic to the truth. Every time Palestinians target Israel, the Israelis strike back ten times harder with precision. The Palestinian casualty rates are literally 10x higher than Israelis. I'm just being realistic and stating facts, The "struggle" vs Israel is futile and ineffective. Both sides would be better off brokering a peace agreement. Saying that doesn't make me anti Iranian. Palestinians are not even Iranian & they don't care very much about Iranians. Backing the Palestinian cause is one of the reasons why tens of millions of Iranians are impoverished. But that doesn't seem to bother you very much. Your motto is "don't ask questions, don't think"
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SalarHaqq
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Then I'd advise correcting priorities.
Iran is comfortably competing with the latter already.
Speculative assertion.
Income rose over the past months, therefore your previous suggestion that poverty must have skyrocketed from 30% to over 50% during this period cannot be the case.
Living standards and purchasing power in Iran improved significantly after the victory of the 1979 Islamic Revolution.
See:
https://djavadsalehi.com/2018/03/21...ard-of-iranians-higher-before-the-revolution/
https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/44...in-Iran-60-percent-higher-than-pre-Revolution
Again it's not "me" saying that, but the relevant statistical office. Which happens to be equipped the technical means of conducting nationwide empirical studies, and unlike random politicians doesn't have reelection nor other items of political expediency in mind.
You on the other hand have kept repeating a claim without producing any credible source to substantiate it. What you 'heard' is really of no consequence: you need valid evidence to support it, otherwise it has no place in a serious discussion.
Concerning recent currency devaluations, I already responded by reminding that salaries were raised as well. So compared to last year, the inflation-induced added strain on living standards is not exactly as significant as you seem to believe.
You realize this is a legacy of the previous administration's blatant failures, and very far from representing a constant after the Islamic Revolution, right?
Incidentally, the administration in question was led by the a camp which happens to be under the chronic delusion that making concessions to the west will yield sanctions relief and economic prosperity. Something you go on advocating in spite of the historic experience alluded to, which clearly demonstrates how Iranian concessions were not followed by any meaningful easing of sanctions.
In 2013 for instance, Iran's poverty rate stood at 18,8%. In 2019 it surpassed 25% due to the Rohani administration's policies.
Under the ouster Pahlavi monarchy, poverty was widespread including after the 1973 oil boom. In 1977, 46% of Iranians were living under the poverty line according to the World Bank. This is while in the early 2000's the Islamic Republic had managed to halve that figure.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IRN/iran/poverty-rate
This all suggests the issue can and will probably be fixed once again. It's a matter of time, unless western-appeasing liberals manage to obstruct ore sabotage adequate solutions.
Inflation is practically Iran's sole problematic macroeconomic indicator by the way. Unemployment for instance is not too high, the balance of payments and balance of trade are favorable, public debt levels are extremely low and so on. Moreover Iran is not experiencing stagflation, since GDP growth is positive.
So your cursory catastrophist statements about the Iranian economy do not properly reflect actual ground reality, nor do they document the factors at play.
At this point it's safe to conclude your information on the economic debate in Iran tends to be rather limited. Which you can't be faulted for per se. However, you also appear to be short on motivation when it comes to acquiring the knowledge necessary to discuss the subject. I shared some sources useful to this purpose, but it would seem as if you choose to ignore them. Preferring instead to rely on hearsay as well as slogan-like, superficial talking points reminiscent of mainstream media and oppositionist discourse, which is misleading by essence.
I will have to repeat, Iran under the foregoing liberal administration attempted to reach an agreement with western powers in good faith, and said powers never fulfilled their commitments, trampling the deal under everyone's eyes from day one.
They unmistakably demonstrated their complete lack of interest for anything short of unconditional capitulation on Iran's part.
Thus, even if Iran were to forego nuclear energy altogether, Washington and Brussels egged on by Tel Aviv would come up with some other pretext to sanction Iran. This would go on until Iran accepts to give up her main assets of deterrence, namely her ballistic missile and drone power as well as her regional system of alliances. Which would invite military aggression or other decisive forms of destabilization by the enemy, as Libya experienced first hand.
Secondly, Iran's peaceful nuclear energy program is a long term investment par excellence. The share of nuclear power in Iran's overall energy production can and will be raised progressively. At the very least, new power plants will complement the existing one to maintain a constant share as total output goes up. Iran's not in a hurry in this regard.
Thirdly, nuclear science has numerous benefits and ramifications well beyond the production of energy. These are of both civilian (scientific progress, agricultural uses, medical applications, etc) and military nature - by the latter I'm referring to the potential break-out capability it endows Iran with, which has been acting as a major element of deterrence against any potential aggressors. Potential aggressors of which there is and will be no shortage in a region like West Asia and for a country such as Iran. History should be a guide here.
Last but not least, sanctions are not the main obstacle to economic progress. Iran can overcome the bulk of economic challenges she's facing through appropriate and adapted government policies.
A rash view of things, which is missing the central stakes at hand.
The zionist regime has no tolerance for powerful integrated nation-states in its vicinity, and that includes countries beyond Occupied Palestine's immediate neighbors. Was Iraq sharing any borders with the zionist regime for the Isra"el" lobby in Washington to push for invading that country in 2003?
As for those who think Tel Aviv will take aim at antagonistic governments only, they ought to familiarize themselves with the Bernard Lewis doctrine publicly expressed at the Moshe Dayan center in the 1970's. Or with the Oded Yinon plan, published in the early 1980's. Both of which are calling for the dismantling of regional nation-states into sub-national entities along "ethno"-linguistic or confessional lines.
Likewise, people should explain what kind of a regime will have its minister speak next to maps incorporating a neighbors with which they actually struck a peace deal?
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-eas...ister-over-use-of-greater-israel-map/2851154#
Now let's take a look back at the former regime in Iran. According to oppositionists and to critics of the Islamic Republic's support for the Palestinian cause, the shah's cooperation with the zionists was beneficial for Iran and her people. That is a flawed supposition though. In reality, not only did Isra"el" see in Iran a milking cow, as illustrated by the rip off that was Project Flower...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Flower
...but much more importantly, the zionist regime was not content with Iran's refusal to extend support to the Palestinians. What they did, was to encroach upon and infiltrate Iranian institutions at strategic levels. Zionist networks including high placed local oligarchs of Jewish and Haifan Baha'i obedience were working to influence Iranian policy-making in Tel Aviv's favor. The country's paramount security agency SAVAK was literally set up not just by the CIA and MI6 but also by Mossad, which retained loyal men at key positions within the organization.
The zionist regime is a security threat for Iran no matter how one will look at it.
As for the odds of the Resistance coming out victorious, as long as there are people who actively reject the zionist neo-colonial yoke, the regime will be at risk of collapse in the same way as apartheid South Africa. The latter wasn't brought down by military conquest either. Nonetheless the resistance movement led by the ANC proved instrumental in the process.
The smart way for Syria to confront the zionist regime is through asymmetrical means. Which Syria has resumed, as witnessed with the recent Palestinian rocket fire from Syrian soil following the raid on Al-Aqsa Mosque.
In view of Syria's situation after years of devastating war, expecting Damascus to go all in however would be absurd.
Again their independence, their national self-determination, their sovereignty.
Addressed above.
1) Specific Palestinian organizations. Not Palestinians per se nor all Palestinians groups.
2) This is not a reason to turn passive towards a major threat to Iran's security, stemming from an expansionist and domineering colonialist entity.
Speculation coupled with ad populum.
The policy ranks among elementary geostrategic imperatives for Iran and it has successfully held at bay a dangerous regime out to subdue Iran and threaten her territorial integrity.
The only baseless rhetoric I see consists of a series of sweeping simplifications about the Iranian economy post-Revolution, combined with advocacy of something that was actually tried but failed blatantly i.e. some acceptable resolution of the standoff with western imperialist powers.
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SalarHaqq
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Casualty rates do not determine the outcome of conflicts. By that logic the Soviet Union would have been defeated by Germany about four to five times over during WW2.
Ironically, among the first people to take issue with this kind of a reasoning one would surely find many Jews. If there's something people would gain paying attention to when studying Jewish history, it's how never giving up and always keeping faith in one's struggle can pay off, no matter how dire the outlook.
Also South Africans resisting apartheid could have thought of plenty of reasons for yielding to defeatism. Yet they stood their ground. They were rewarded with liberation.
For this to take shape the zionist leadership would have to be genuinely interested in a viable peace accord. It isn't.
Not nearly as much as your monotonous insistence would have us believe.
Besides, independence and self-determination as well as deterrence of existential foes for a country like Iran will not be entirely free of charge. Reaped benefits however are literally priceless.
Like someone cares of an umpteenth biased pro-NATO "Expert military" twitter account claims and percentages took from nowhere
They already did it in recent times, and even took claim for what happened in Ispahan
Messerschmitt
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Hmm
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