Iranian Chill Thread

[Sineva]

Regarding Venezuela:

Imagine you have sanctioned a country to the maximum and they can’t even drive their cars due to lack of gas. Their refineries lack technology and material.

Now imagine you are a news reporter in Reuter and you are paid money to make sure Venezuelans don’t want the only option of refining technology, instruments and quick gasoline that is available.

It would be a very awkward piece of news. What can you say? Their petroleum standard is low? They have Corona virus? Here you go.
From Reuter:

“We are very concerned for the safety of Venezuelans, and of Latin America as well, due to this attempted Iranian presence on Venezuelan soil," said Guaido, who leads the opposition-held National Assembly and is recognized as the rightful president by dozens of countries, including the United States.

Guaido said his team believed Venezuelan officials were paying Iran for the shipment with gold from informal mines in the country's southern jungles, which have been criticized by environmental activists and rights groups for contaminating watersheds and fueling massacres as gangs battle for territory.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...nt-ought-to-alarm-latin-america-idUSKBN22W2H1

So now theres such a thing as "blood gold",man talk about grasping at straws...
Previously they`d tried to claim that venezuela was somehow "raiding" its OWN gold reserves to pay for irans help

 

[sha ah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1263155777663008769

The 5 Iranian tankers are in the Atlantic. The first, FORTUNE, is 5 days from José, Anzoátegui State. Arrival is expected on Monday, May 25. And the last one, FAXON, would arrive on June 1st. With a demand of 80 thousand barrels per day

 

[sha ah]

Things are heating up in Libya

Turkey claims to have destroyed 15 Pantsirs
According to https://www.lostarmour.info/libya/
Turkey has lost 15 drones in Libya, with 8 Pantsirs being destroyed up till now. The real numbers are probably much higher

So now theres such a thing as "blood gold",man talk about grasping at straws...
Previously they`d tried to claim that venezuela was somehow "raiding" its OWN gold reserves to pay for irans help

 

[Shawnee]

Things are heating up in Libya

Turkey claims to have destroyed 15 Pantsirs
According to https://www.lostarmour.info/libya/
Turkey has lost 15 drones in Libya, with 8 Pantsirs being destroyed up till now. The real numbers are probably much higher

If you watch all the videos, some of them do not prove that a pantsir was hit.
I do not deny the possibility though.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Things are heating up in Libya

Turkey claims to have destroyed 15 Pantsirs
According to https://www.lostarmour.info/libya/
Turkey has lost 15 drones in Libya, with 8 Pantsirs being destroyed up till now. The real numbers are probably much higher

Have nothing to do with us , its all between Turkey , PGCC and Russia
and Syria showed us Pantsir is nothing but shit . thanks God we opted for and our next air-defense is based on something that is at least effective

 

[raptor22]

Have nothing to do with us , its all between Turkey , PGCC and Russia
and Syria showed us Pantsir is nothing but shit . thanks God we opted for and our next air-defense is based on something that is at least effective

But I heard Oghab was inspired by Pantsir ... I hope just in concept not performance ..

 

[Mithridates]

but seriously how Turkish drones are able to hit an air defence that suppose to hold this kind of attacks?? LOL
some one mentioned that they use an unarmed drone to search area for targets and Mark them for another drone which is armed and like this they can hit pantsir.
but Turkish drones use freefall munitions with 8 km range which is not enough for this job. the above mentioned scenario can be true if the drones carry rocket assisted bombs/missiles.

 

[Saddam Hussein]

Have nothing to do with us , its all between Turkey , PGCC and Russia
and Syria showed us Pantsir is nothing but shit . thanks God we opted for and our next air-defense is based on something that is at least effective

We bought Pantsir, we expect our fellow Majoos to supply us 3rd Khordad

 

[Mithridates]

We bought Pantsir, we expect our fellow Majoos to supply us 3rd Khordad

wait until October so our arm transfer restrictions expire. until then do not fight with turkey

 

[Philosopher]

but seriously how Turkish drones are able to hit an air defence that suppose to hold this kind of attacks?? LOL
some one mentioned that they use an unarmed drone to search area for targets and Mark them for another drone which is armed and like this they can hit pantsir.
but Turkish drones use freefall munitions with 8 km range which is not enough for this job. the above mentioned scenario can be true if the drones carry rocket assisted bombs/missiles.

Giving a sword to a plebeian will not make them a swordsman. You have to keep in mind the quality of the people using these systems. Clearly there is a level of incompetency in using these high end air defence systems. You see the same situation in Syria. Looking at the situation in Libya, even by the conservative estimates, the Turkish backed groups have lost quite a few UAVs already. Obviously they will not be posting videos of those and instead showing videos of what they have destroyed. This is how propaganda works.

If you want to see truly impressive use of UAVs, you just need to look at this:

 

[Mithridates]

Giving a sword to a plebeian will not make them a swordsman. You have to keep in mind the quality of the people using these systems. Clearly there is a level of incompetency in using these high end air defence systems. You see the same situation in Syria. Looking at the situation in Libya, even by the conservative estimates, the Turkish backed groups have lost quite a few UAVs already. Obviously they will not be posting videos of those and instead showing videos of what they have destroyed. This is how propaganda works.

If you want to see truly impressive use of UAVs, you just need to look at this:

to be honest even one pantsir lost against drones is a concerning issue. pantsir is suppose to defend long range ADs against cruise missiles...
also there was in news that Russians blamed the Syrians for their incomptency but they themselves couldn't track a target with it when Syrian mil 17 helicopter turned on it's jamming pod.
I guess they designed pantsir with this fact in mind that it will only target cruise missiles no EW no drone... it's kinda like mig-29 issue, it was supposed to be hell of a fighter jet but yet it was unsuccessful when you look at it's record. while in reality it's good but it requires some specific condition to project it's superiority over enemy.

 

[Philosopher]

to be honest even one pantsir lost against drones is a concerning issue. pantsir is suppose to defend long range ADs against cruise missiles...
also there was in news that Russians blamed the Syrians for their incomptency but they themselves couldn't track a target with it when Syrian mil 17 helicopter turned on it's jamming pod.
I guess they designed pantsir with this fact in mind that it will only target cruise missiles no EW no drone... it's kinda like mig-29 issue, it was supposed to be hell of a fighter jet but yet it was unsuccessful when you look at it's record. while in reality it's good but it requires some specific condition to project it's superiority over enemy.

There is no system that is perfect, or anywhere close to it (even on paper). There certainly does not exist a system that will work wonders despite the incompetency of its users. Furthermore, any system not part of a proper IAD network will be much more vulnerable. Now, whether Pantsir has some inherent issues is not something we will be privy to. There was some rumours initially regarding the detection capability of the Pantsir:

“In Syria, it turned out that the Pantsir was practically incapable of detecting low-speed and small-sized targets, which include military UAVs. At the same time, the complex regularly recorded false targets—large birds flying around the base—rather confusing the operators.”

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/does-russias-anti-drone-pantsir-s1-system-even-work-91251

Cruise missiles behave differently to these loitering slow moving UAVs, so I will not compare them. What is obvious is that the TOR-M2 seems to be considerably more effective. To what extend the capabilities of the systems are to blame vs the capability of the operators is something I cannot analyse fully due to the limited OSINT around this matter.

 

[Hack-Hook]

But I heard Oghab was inspired by Pantsir ... I hope just in concept not performance ..

it is based on Tor , they later want to add a cannon to it.

 

[Hack-Hook]

We bought Pantsir, we expect our fellow Majoos to supply us 3rd Khordad

well , we will provide Buk-M2 .
let be honest 3rd of Khordad is only one layer of defense it need to be protected by systems like Oghab , Tor , Iron Dome, .....
Sorry but Pantsir don't cut it. so until you show you can protect 3rd of Khordad the best we can offer is Mersad.
It come with Shahin & Shalamcheh missile and is resistance to electronically warfare and have 4 different type of radars (Kavosh 150km of range, Jouiya for low altitude target, Hadi and another HPIR radar that supplement Hadi also Hadi radar come with an additional E/O system to detect Stealth target and make it jamming resistant), and can be networked. and has a range of more than 80km .
it can detect target with RCS of less than 0.5Sqm at the range of 110km and can engage two target simultaneously
by the way it has an option of a 3d phased array radar called Hafez with the range of 250km and ability to track 100 target simultaneously if the buyer is interested. and guess what that radar also can be networked . and all the systems are mobiles

There is no system that is perfect, or anywhere close to it (even on paper). There certainly does not exist a system that will work wonders despite the incompetency of its users. Furthermore, any system not part of a proper IAD network will be much more vulnerable. Now, whether Pantsir has some inherent issues is not something we will be privy to. There was some rumours initially regarding the detection capability of the Pantsir:

“In Syria, it turned out that the Pantsir was practically incapable of detecting low-speed and small-sized targets, which include military UAVs. At the same time, the complex regularly recorded false targets—large birds flying around the base—rather confusing the operators.”

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/does-russias-anti-drone-pantsir-s1-system-even-work-91251

Cruise missiles behave differently to these loitering slow moving UAVs, so I will not compare them. What is obvious is that the TOR-M2 seems to be considerably more effective. To what extend the capabilities of the systems are to blame vs the capability of the operators is something I cannot analyse fully due to the limited OSINT around this matter.

well when a system like Tor have 80% efficiency and Pantsir only 19% efficiency in destroying same type of targets then you must admit there is something wrong here.
https://warisboring.com/can-russias-pantsir-air-defense-system-handle-drone-swarms/

also don't forget Tor is an Armored truck but pantsir is not . tor was designed to be used in heat of battle so it actually detect and track targets while moving but pantsir cant do that and can't be used to defend forward positions.

 

[Philosopher]

well when a system like Tor have 80% efficiency and Pantsir only 19% efficiency in destroying same type of targets then you must admit there is something wrong here.
https://warisboring.com/can-russias-pantsir-air-defense-system-handle-drone-swarms/

also don't forget Tor is an Armored truck but pantsir is not . tor was designed to be used in heat of battle so it actually detect and track targets while moving but pantsir cant do that and can't be used to defend forward positions.

Numbers can be very misleading unless you have more in depth information. I did not want to come to a full conclusion. But I am leaning towards the Pantsir not being up to the job as far as UAVs are concerned. I am happy that the Iranian Oghab is related more to the Tor system. It just goes to show you how much different a system can on be on paper as compared to in real life battles. That is why it is essential we test as much as these systems as possible in places like Syria.