Iranian Air Defense Systems

[AmirPatriot]

Illumination is only possible via the X-band radar. If the X-band radar is dead, the SARH seeker can't be used anymore. You then can only use a ARH seeker SAM or... or a special kind of guidance... the 15th Khordad also has just a S-band radar without illumination capability.

So if the S-band radar cannot illuminate the target, how is the missile guided from launch until terminal (from which point the X-band radar takes over) against stealth targets? Just command guidance?

This is bearing in mind that the X-band illumination of the target won't be picked up by the missile's receiver until the terminal stage aka the last 5-10 km.

 

[PeeD]

So if the S-band radar cannot illuminate the target, how is the missile guided from launch until terminal (from which point the X-band radar takes over) against stealth targets? Just command guidance?

This is bearing in mind that the X-band illumination of the target won't be picked up by the missile's receiver until the terminal stage aka the last 5-10 km.

Yes via missile up- und hopefully also down-link to enable SAGG.
X-band illumination is only required for the very terminal phase.

As @sanel1412 said, there are often several guidance methods in this kind of modern SAM. I think its a sensitive topic and I won't speculate about it.

 

[AmirPatriot]

Yes via missile up- und hopefully also down-link to enable SAGG.
X-band illumination is only required for the very terminal phase.

Thank God... I thought that one poster had ruined everything we'd talked about.

 

[yavar]

 

[skyshadow]

Name: Bavar-373

Title: Long Range Air Defense System

Mission


Detect And Track And Engage Stealth Fighter jets And Stealth Bombers And Stealth Drones And Cruise Missiles, Anti-Radiation Missiles And Ballistic Missiles And AWACS Planes And Reconnaissance Aircraft And Jets And All Type Of Helicopters And.....

Capabilities


Minimum Detection Range: 450 KM.

tracking Range: 260 KM.

Missile Range: +200 KM.

Missile Altitude: 27-30 KM.

Detection: Up To 300 targets.

Engaging Targets With Minimum radar cross-section Of: 0.0001m2

Simultaneous Tracking: Up To 60 targets Simultaneously.

Simultaneous Engagement: Up To 6 targets Simultaneously.

Number Of Guided Missiles Simultaneously : 12 Missiles Simultaneously

Launch System: Hot Launch

 

[PeeD]

No test against Shahab-3 and in total not much new after the leaked footage two days ago.

So lets compare it to the S-400:

Pro S-400: Very large and very powerful PESA array in it's Gravestone engagement radar. Allows engagement of 12 instead of 6 simultaneous targets.
Con: Lack of waveform agility, easier to detect and locate.

Pro Bavar-373: Dual-band at battery level. Gives a benefit of ~20dB for detection and tracking of stealth targets and much more robust ECCM.
Con: None except cost, theoretically S-400 can do this too but a battalion level only (Big Bird).

Pro S-400: 380km range ARH SAM component.
Con: Easier to jam, significantly more expensive. Bavar-373 lacks such a long range component against high-value targets.

Pro Bavar-373: All off-road capability, including CP, S-400 only in special sub-variant without CP.

Con Bavar-373: Unknown how/if the X-band engagement radar achieves range and illumination performance in the class of the S-300/-400. An AESA needs to be very large or very expensive (GaN) to achieve that. It's possible that Iran has found a innovative and economical solution to this in connection with higher gain. A backfeed PESA would be still possible and much more cot effective, but powerlevels would be too low to make sense compared to the spacefeed high power S-300/-400 system.
In worst case a blind illumination by a backfeed PESA is done, with the task to just put enough RF energy on the target for the Sayyad-4 seeker to pick it up in the last seconds of the terminal phase.

Pro S-400: Small minimum range to fight against CM class targets. Thats due to the TVC system. Bavar-373 potentially lacks this as it's not designed to be spent on CM class targets.

Pro S-400: Cold launch makes sure the system can operate in forrest areas and minimized potential damage to the TEL.
Con: More expensive and not fail-proof.

Pro Bavar-373: 10x10 TEL offers growth potential for heavier/larger missiles.
Con: More expensive, larger footprint.

Pro S-400: May have the benefit of increased maneuverability if used in ABM role as TVC system might still be active in shorter range engagements. Still possible that the Sayyad-4 has TVC too.
Con: Higher cost per round, only operational in the short boost phase.

Pro S-400: SAGG guidance system for better ECCM and counter-beaming/notching capability and lower SAM cost. Bavar-373 may or may not have an equivalent.

Conclusion is: For the Bavar-373 radars to achieve similar range and illumination performance as the S-400 or even S-300, some groundbreaking innovations or high cost systems are required. A open question for now.

 

[yavar]

 

[AmirPatriot]

Conclusion is: For the Bavar-373 radars to achieve similar range and illumination performance as the S-400 or even S-300, some groundbreaking innovations or high cost systems are required. A open question for now.

The good news is that just like how the S-300 developed into S-400, our Bavar can develop and become more formidable. With the technological gains that Iran is making, it can in future improve power delivery, gain, the sophistication of the T/R modules, even the array size if need be. The possibilities with this system stretch far and wide.

 

[PeeD]

The good news is that just like how the S-300 developed into S-400, our Bavar can develop and become more formidable. With the technological gains that Iran is making, it can in future improve power delivery, gain, the sophistication of the T/R modules, even the array size if need be. The possibilities with this system stretch far and wide.

It wasn't my intention to say that the Bavar has defiantly a inferior radar component. I actually believe the X-band radar uses an unconventional method to achieve long range illumination.
Plus as a AESA design it is rather easily upscaleable if deemed necessary.
But I think it is already what it needs to be: supporting illumination beyond 250km is not even done by the S-400, from there onwards ARH seeker are used.
I hope that at highest GaA TRMs are used, relative low power ones that are cost effective.
The array is so large for a X-band AESA that several thousand elements are necessary, about 10.000.

I believe that the goal was to create a more powerful radar than the Tombstone and even Gravestone, a next generation radar system. Dual-band to counter stealth and AESA to better counter IRBMs and hypersonics.

So, power levels aside, the Bavar radars are actually more advanced than that of the S-400.
Now that high res photos of them are available, I actually firmly believe that a very unconventional method is used to improve illumination power levels.

 

[Iskander]

 

[T-72B]

Change the detection range to 320-450km

 

[Battle of Waterloo]

guys it seems like there is a misunderstanding regarding the max service ceiling, like any other system bavar's anti ballistic ceiling is different than the anti aircraft one so as the max range. the max ABM calling is 65 km and max AA is 27 km.

Shouldn't those numbers be the other way round (i.e. 65km ceiling for AA and 27km altitude ceiling for ABM)?

Also, why is the max detection range 320km when Meraj-4 was shown to have 400km+ range?

 

[PeeD]

-600km detection range of future Iranian Nebo. Battalion level.
-450km detection range of Meraj-4. Battalion level
-320km detection range of S-band acquisition radar
-260km precision track range of S-band acquisition radar or detection range of X-band engagement radar
-200km precision track and illumination range of X-band engagement radar

This would be a possible interpretation of the numbers.

 

[Iskander]

Also, why is the max detection range 320km when Meraj-4 was shown to have 400km+ range?

maybe the stated 320 km detection range is for battery level and 450 km detection range is for battallion level like PeeD stated

 

[skyshadow]

Shouldn't those numbers be the other way round (i.e. 65km ceiling for AA and 27km altitude ceiling for ABM)?

Also, why is the max detection range 320km when Meraj-4 was shown to have 400km+ range?

no aircraft can go above 30 km but BMs can so 65 KM for ABM.

yes they have Meraj-4 they showed one battery of Bavar 373, batteries dose not have Meraj-4 only a battalion of Bavar 373 has Meraj-4 radar.