Iran warns India over Pakistan gas pipeline deal

[Neo]

Iran warns India over Pakistan gas pipeline deal ​

Thu Sep 27, 2007

TEHRAN (AFP) - Iran warned India that it would sign a multi-billion dollar gas pipeline deal with Pakistan alone if New Dehli did not swiftly agree terms on transit pricing with Islamabad.

Iranian and Pakistani officials are holding a new round of talks this week over finalising the long-delayed pipeline, which would see Iranian gas sent to Pakistan and to India via Pakistan.

But Indian officials have been absent from the talks over the so-called "peace pipeline" as New Delhi and Islamabad have yet to agree over the payment of transit fees by India to Pakistan.

"We prefer it to be a tripartite deal, but if it does not happen we will sign it with the Pakistanis," caretaker Oil Minister Gholam Hossein Nozari told reporters.

But he repeated that the door is not totally closed for the Indian side.

"We are still emphasising that we want it to be tripartite deal. The door is still open for the Indians," he added.

India said Tuesday it remained committed to the deal despite its not attending the new round of talks in Tehran.

Discussions on the 7.4-billion-dollar project started in 1994, but have been held up by technical and commercial issues.

There have also been strong objections to the pipeline from the United States -- a key friend of Pakistan and an ever closer ally of India -- which is at loggerheads with Iran over its contested nuclear programme.

The 2,600-kilometre (1,600-mile) pipeline from Iran's giant South Pars gas field would initially carry around 60 million standard cubic metres (2.2 billion cubic feet) of gas per day.

Iran has the world's second largest gas reserves after Russia but until now has remained a relatively minor player in the global export market.

Iran warns India over Pakistan gas pipeline deal - Yahoo! News

 

[Neo]

Iran says ready to conclude gas agreement with Pakistan ​

27/ 09/ 2007

TEHRAN, September 27 (RIA Novosti) - Iran is ready to sign a bilateral agreement with Pakistan to build a gas pipeline, despite one of the project partners' absence, acting Iranian Petroleum Minister Gholamhossein Nozari said Thursday.

In July, Iran, Pakistan and India agreed a price for the natural gas to be pumped along the 2,300 km Iran-Pakistan-India (IPI) pipeline, which is estimated to cost $7.5 billion, the first deliveries are expected in 2011 with Pakistan and India sharing the gas equally. The annual throughput capacity is estimated at 21.1 billion cu m.

"Talks with Pakistan on the gas pipeline started two days ago, and as the Indian side has not resolved its difficulties yet, we will sign this agreement with Pakistan," Nozari told journalists. "We are moving forward in our agreements with Pakistan, and if India joins this project we will sign a trilateral agreement."

The second round of Iranian-Pakistani talks at the expert level started in Tehran Monday.

The talks focused on discussing exports of Iranian gas to Pakistan and India, but the absence of Indian experts put the likelihood of reaching a three-party agreement in question. In August India's Ambassador to Russia, Kanwal Sibal said that India and Pakistan were still in dispute over pricing and transit duties.

The first round of talks took place in Pakistan August 30, without India's participation either. Then India explained its absence by being unready for consultations.

India and Pakistan are under pressure from the U.S. not to do business with Iran in the energy sector. But the parties to the project have repeatedly stated their resolve to move forward with the key project, regardless of Washington's opposition.

RIA Novosti - Business - Iran says ready to conclude gas agreement with Pakistan

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I might have to eat crow - but the realization of this pipeline, especially if India declines participation (either during the initial phase or the entire project), will really show us who is or isn't dancing to the American fiddle.

 

[blitz]

I have a question. Why is that Pakistan is so eager to include India in the deal ? Why don't they just go alone with Iran already ? Is it because Pakistan intends on using the pipeline to blackmail India in the future ? Or is it the lure of free transit fee ? Or is it both ? My guess is that its both. Brotherly and righteous feelings are defenitely not the cause.

Anyways, i was never in favor of the IPI. Better for India to lay an undersea pipeline, though hugely expensive, but still better than handing its jugular to Pakistan. Other options is to keep using tankers as it is today.

 

[Shivakumar]

I have a question. Why is that Pakistan is so eager to include India in the deal ? Why don't they just go alone with Iran already ? Is it because Pakistan intends on using the pipeline to blackmail India in the future ? Or is it the lure of free transit fee ? Or is it both ? My guess is that its both. Brotherly and righteous feelings are defenitely not the cause.

Anyways, i was never in favor of the IPI. Better for India to lay an undersea pipeline, though hugely expensive, but still better than handing its jugular to Pakistan. Other options is to keep using tankers as it is today.

One more reason is to use as an excuse when US puts pressure in future.

I think the GOI is not interested in this deal due to the price and Pakistan can block it anytime. Also, I believe GOI is promoting bio-fuel as an alternative. Now the government is encouraging farming sugarcanes in our area. Also, there is an idea to produce gas from human waste (we have just did it in Afghan). I think it is a better idea to use human waste to produce gas and using them as fertilizers after processing (no chemical farming).

We have used gas produced from cow waste for our entire cooking needs in the past (then we had around 10 cows) and it was free. Now we have to pay more than 700 Rs. for gas.

 

[IceCold]

Whether India gets in the deal or not pakistan should carry it on and blitz if you read the article clearly it says iran is pushing for india to join in not pakistan. Pakistan has repeatedly stated that it will go on with the project with or without India. We'll just have to wait i guess till the elections and after that i think musharraf government if elected hopefully they do get elected will go on with the project.
One question i would wana ask indians here is that on one hand india does not want to carry on this type of joint projects with pakistan because it fears that pakistan can use it to blackmail and for india's point of view i may add that they are right to feel it this way since the two countries are not so friendly towards each other while on the other hand its india that shouts that pakistan still hasnt called india the favourite country for trade whereas india has already done it. My question is whats the point if we cannot trust eachother on issues like these, i believe there is no point of giving this status or rather steps taken for confidence building measures, there isnt any confidence at all.

 

[Bull]

To hell with Iran. Well they couldnt honour the deal on gas price which they signed, and now they are lecturing us. What does India lose if they supply it to Pakistan?

 

[Mustapha]

Why would India need to Supply Gas to Pakistan...
When their need is greater than Pakistan's!

Secondly its Iran who wants India to participate... Pakistan remains pretty much neutral...

If India is included, ok Pakistan also gets money for basically tranporting/selling the gas to India...

If not, Pakistan would really not care... Since we are the main buyers anyways...

About the Blackmailing --->thats quite understandable... to a certain extent yes, but just like IceCold, said if there is no confidence, obviously trying to build up that confidence was a waste of time. In my opinion after reviewing this article... it was...

 

[Spring Onion]

I have a question. Why is that Pakistan is so eager to include India in the deal ? Why don't they just go alone with Iran already ? Is it because Pakistan intends on using the pipeline to blackmail India in the future ? Or is it the lure of free transit fee ? Or is it both ? My guess is that its both. Brotherly and righteous feelings are defenitely not the cause.

Anyways, i was never in favor of the IPI. Better for India to lay an undersea pipeline, though hugely expensive, but still better than handing its jugular to Pakistan. Other options is to keep using tankers as it is today.

blitz i think you are not reading news regularly, PAKISTAN had already said time and again to go alone with the project if India dosnt want to carry on with the same.
So we are not that much eager to include india in the project rather India herself needs energy and she has to get it one way or the other way.
Even there is plan to TAP pipeline to India and it also has to pass through Pakistan so what will you say then ?

On other hand laying undersea pipline is not underconsideration by the other party so India can not go with it.

The most important thing is Indian leadership is so confused and undecided that we daily see different statments by them in this regard.
Indeed the US pressure is the huge. But lets see what happens i guess India would get into it keeping her energy needs.

 

[Marathaman]

The last thing we need to do to our energy needs is make them dependent on Pakistan. This is why the Indian leadership is not sure. We can't trust Pakistan at all, given its record of untrustworthy activities.
Besides, if we get the nuclear deal through, India can actually produce nuclear power on a large scale, which will again reduce the need for the pipeline.

 

[blain2]

The last thing we need to do to our energy needs is make them dependent on Pakistan. This is why the Indian leadership is not sure. We can't trust Pakistan at all, given its record of untrustworthy activities.
Besides, if we get the nuclear deal through, India can actually produce nuclear power on a large scale, which will again reduce the need for the pipeline.

And I am sure India is the fountain from which trustworthiness flows ....either way you look at it, Pakistan will go ahead with Iran. Its too good of a deal for Pakistan to not go along with....and contrary to what you say, the problem is not dependence on Pakistan, its the pressure from our (and now your) uncle.

 

[Marathaman]

And I am sure India is the fountain from which trustworthiness flows ....either way you look at it, Pakistan will go ahead with Iran. Its too good of a deal for Pakistan to not go along with....and contrary to what you say, the problem is not dependence on Pakistan, its the pressure from our (and now your) uncle.

Well...Ind-Pak trust bank is bankrupt without a doubt.

Hence, India cannot be dependent on Pakistan for its energy needs. Simple isn't it. The pipeline will just give Pakistan a blackmailing tool and give India a reason not to behave aggressively towards Pakistan , if the need arises.

 

[blain2]

Well...Ind-Pak trust bank is bankrupt without a doubt.

Hence, India cannot be dependent on Pakistan for its energy needs. Simple isn't it. The pipeline will just give Pakistan a blackmailing tool and give India a reason not to behave aggressively towards Pakistan , if the need arises.

Lets not kid ourselves here...if the two countries can share water which is even more of a lifeline than gas, then not sure where you are going with this? Lets call a spade a spade...the problem is not India's dependence on Pakistan (we get to make a billion dollars a year just on transit fees and this amount is to go up in the future), rather its the US pressure on India. The day the Iranians see a change in leadership, you would see Indians extending the deal to themselves.

Also contrary to your points, ventures of this sort are very effective CBMs and actually pile up the collective cost of going to war. These are the kind of things that you need to see happen more if there is to be lasting peace. The usual hawks will cry about this threat or that threat, but in the end, this is the most dependable, affordable supply of gas for India and has a huge benefit for Pakistan. Also India has other (although less optimal) options in case of some cutoff. So to assume that this is India's only energy lifeline would be another mistake.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well...Ind-Pak trust bank is bankrupt without a doubt.

Hence, India cannot be dependent on Pakistan for its energy needs. Simple isn't it. The pipeline will just give Pakistan a blackmailing tool and give India a reason not to behave aggressively towards Pakistan , if the need arises.

Perhaps, but then it could also be argued that with the 123 agreement, the reliance on the pipeline, if it was constructed, would be minimized and possibly substituted with nuclear energy if the need arose - so it should be a win win deal - unless of course someone is making India say "Uncle"!

The argument of "deficit of trust" is a ridiculous excuse. If trust was the issue, then India should never have joined discussions in the first place. The relationship between the two countries is arguably better currently than it has ever been in the past - so that excuse may have worked back then when the proposal was first floated. Why lead Iran along when you have no intention of ever joining the pipeline? Why damage your relationship with them? Refusing to join now will have only one star spangled reason behind it.

 

[Spring Onion]

Well...Ind-Pak trust bank is bankrupt without a doubt.

Hence, India cannot be dependent on Pakistan for its energy needs. Simple isn't it. The pipeline will just give Pakistan a blackmailing tool and give India a reason not to behave aggressively towards Pakistan , if the need arises.

now after blitz you raised the question of blackmaling. so let us study it from another angle.


1.The pipleline is going to pass through Pakistani Province BALOCHISTAN right ?
in that case the only risk to the pipline is miscreants at work in Balochistan and who are these ?
The BLA backed, armed and sponsored by INDIA.
So in that case India would have no other option but to halt activities of BLA atleast in this regard like attack on the gaslines, resultantly gradual end to activities of BLA which indeed India dosnt want.

2. As blain said INDIA Is under immense pressur from US regarding the pipline and saying that it is not important for India would be mistake as pointed out by blain.

3. It is not some love story where two parties go ahead without terms and conditions indeed there are some terms and conditions bounding Pakistan to make sure saftey of the gasline so its realy childish to say that we will blackmail.
4.India is not in a position to to halt such projects merely on perception of being blackmailed as i said before even if she wants enegry from Central Asian Republics it would be through Pakistan.
5. Even India cant not reach CARs without Pakistan and even Can not trade with Afghanistan without Pakistan.

So it would be more wise to node for it.
Its another matter saving INDO-US nuke deal is more important and for that India can sacrifice the gasline