Iran to Purchase Sukhoi-30 Fighter Jets From Russia

[Daneshmand]

How about co-owning the Indian production line at Nashik?

India is going to procure 40 more Su-30, thus almost 90 more Su-30 to be produced. Current rate is 10-12 fighter per year, with Iran getting involved, we can churn out 20-25 a year easily.

Only in-house production for Iran makes sense. When sanctions return, Nashik will never be seen by Iranians again. Did you know that Iran also "co-owned" a uranium enrichment plant with France in France? Iran never saw even a gram of enriched uranium from that plant.

This is the lesson, Iranians learned under sanctions: Anything outside your country does not really belong to you.

Be it spare parts for planes or a factory building planes.

Is this deal affected by western embargo on weapon sales to Iran?
I recall that nuclear deal has some grace period of few years before weapons can be sold but not sure if it is binding from UN or only west

Yes, these are just deals right now. Not delivery. Just preparing the ground for the day, military sanctions for offensive weapons come off. That is why my argument to use this time to set up production line and acquire ToT so the day the sanctions come off, the first plane also rolls off the Iranian production.

Otherwise Iran will have to wait for 8 years to get a plane. Which makes the idea of any purchase a moot one since who knows what is going to happen by that time. Starting to erect a factory on the other hand makes sense, since such a project takes time and this sanction time can be utilized properly this way.

 

[PoKeMon]

Only in-house production for Iran makes sense. When sanctions return, Nashik will never be seen by Iranians again. Did you know that Iran also "co-owned" a uranium enrichment plant with France in France? Iran never saw even a gram of enriched uranium from that plant.

This is the lesson, Iranians learned under sanctions: Anything outside your country does not really belong to you.

Be it spare parts for planes or a factory building planes.

Can understand your doubts and yes I can't claim that India can not bend to the pressure but yes, we are not France either.
Also we have many subsystems for MKI coming from Israel and they wont be very happy seeing you guys there either. So may be not that good idea.

By the way setting up a plant in Iran with ToT purely depend upon how many fighters you are looking for. 100+ ?

But anyways, we may be a good second channel for you guys for spares, training and any other support Iran need in bad times as much as we can and we did in past.

 

[Daneshmand]

Can understand your doubts and yes I can't claim that India can not bend to the pressure but yes, we are not France either.
Also we have many subsystems for MKI coming from Israel and they wont be very happy seeing you guys there either. So may be not that good idea.

By the way setting up a plant in Iran with ToT purely depend upon how many fighters you are looking for. 100+ ?

But anyways, we may be a good second channel for you guys for spares, training and any other support Iran need in bad times as much as we can and we did in past.

That is what I am saying. That Iran should learn from India and get a production line and not just a few planes manufactured in Russia and then remain dependent on Russia forever for spares and overhauls etc.

It is better to learn fishing than to buy the fish. Specially if your country is prone to be sanctioned every now and then.

 

[Chevil]

How about co-owning the Indian production line at Nashik?

India is going to procure 40 more Su-30, thus almost 90 more Su-30 to be produced. Current rate is 10-12 fighter per year, with Iran getting involved, we can churn out 20-25 a year easily.

India is using Israelis and France Avionic in their Su-30 MKI ....

Is this deal affected by western embargo on weapon sales to Iran?
I recall that nuclear deal has some grace period of few years before weapons can be sold but not sure if it is binding from UN or only west

Well , Russia has veto right and technically can do anything in UNSC ... and they are being surrender by western and got sanctions ...
westerns are putting sanctions on Russian customers and then don't give any market share ....

from military.ir

سلام نمیدونم دوستان کجای حرف های
جناب وزیر رو متوجه نشدن خیلی عجیبه برام
ایشون عرض کرد با فرمانده نیروی هوایی صحبت داشتم تا تجدید نظر کنن تو نیازشون این یک
بعد عرض کرد نیاز اول ما هواپیمای آموزشیه این دو
گفتند تا تولید نهایی کوثر تمام تمرکز ما رو کوثر هستش که نیاز بهش داریم این سه
بعد از اون ادامه کار رو قاهر ادامه میدیم برای نمونه رهگیر و بمبر این چهار
ذهن من با قرار دادن این چهار جمله و پازل کنار هم فقط به یه مطلب میرسه
اینکه نیاز ضروری الان نهاجا جت مافوق صوت اموزشیه با کاکپیت دیجیتال برای آموزش خلبان ها جهت سوخو های احتمالی که قراره به زودی قراردادشون بسته بشه
بنابر این بعد از شروع به تولید انبوه کوثر و ورود اولین سوخو ها یعنی علاج و مرهم موقتی
اون موقع کار برای ادامه قاهر در ورژن ها دیگه شروع میشه مجددا و تمام تلاش و تمرکز رو علاج دایم نیروی هوایی خواهند کرد...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Only in-house production for Iran makes sense. When sanctions return, Nashik will never be seen by Iranians again. Did you know that Iran also "co-owned" a uranium enrichment plant with France in France? Iran never saw even a gram of enriched uranium from that plant.

This is the lesson, Iranians learned under sanctions: Anything outside your country does not really belong to you.

Be it spare parts for planes or a factory building planes.



Yes, these are just deals right now. Not delivery. Just preparing the ground for the day, military sanctions for offensive weapons come off. That is why my argument to use this time to set up production line and acquire ToT so the day the sanctions come off, the first plane also rolls off the Iranian production.

Otherwise Iran will have to wait for 8 years to get a plane. Which makes the idea of any purchase a moot one since who knows what is going to happen by that time. Starting to erect a factory on the other hand makes sense, since such a project takes time and this sanction time can be utilized properly this way.

I think getting s400 will be even a bigger deterrent to those who fancy raiding Iran day and night

 

[haman10]

I think getting s400 will be even a bigger deterrent to those who fancy raiding Iran day and night

I don't think so . we've enough defensive capabilities .

it's time to make the air-based enemy pay outside our AD system's reach .

 

[Green Angel]

Indians are feeling ill.................So,take that.............

 

[Daneshmand]

I think getting s400 will be even a bigger deterrent to those who fancy raiding Iran day and night

That is true. But Iran's air force is really in need to get modernized. And these are not mutually exclusive. With correct planning and a bit of luck Iran can go for both.

I don't think so . we've enough defensive capabilities .

it's time to make the air-based enemy pay outside our AD system's reach .

And we should have even more. Along with newer technologies.

By the way, I did not see any Turkish members here congratulating us on this thread. Did you?

 

[Daneshmand]

Watch 24:00

«حتی تعداد جنگنده‌های سوخوی-30 که قرار است خریداری کنیم، مشخص شده است»، افزود: «فعلاً تعداد این جنگنده‌ها را اعلام نمی‌کنیم... (به روس‌ها) گفتیم با همکاری و شراکت باید در ساخت و تولید (این جنگنده‌ها) نیز شرکت کنیم.»

21:45 ham migeh qaher mordeh beh donya omad!

So it is official, it is going to be some sort of ToT with Iran taking part in its production.

Though what kind, it is yet to be seen.

 

[warfareknow]

Watch 24:00

«حتی تعداد جنگنده‌های سوخوی-30 که قرار است خریداری کنیم، مشخص شده است»، افزود: «فعلاً تعداد این جنگنده‌ها را اعلام نمی‌کنیم... (به روس‌ها) گفتیم با همکاری و شراکت باید در ساخت و تولید (این جنگنده‌ها) نیز شرکت کنیم.»

21:45 ham migeh qaher mordeh beh donya omad!

So it is official, it is going to be some sort of ToT with Iran taking part in its production.

Though what kind, it is yet to be seen.

We all knew the qaher thing :/

 

[Scavenger]

How about co-owning the Indian production line at Nashik?

India is going to procure 40 more Su-30, thus almost 90 more Su-30 to be produced. Current rate is 10-12 fighter per year, with Iran getting involved, we can churn out 20-25 a year easily.

It doesn't work that way.
The countries want in-house manufacturing when they buy ToT. Its not about profits.

When NOT buying ToT, countries look for least cost producer.

If Iran buys ToT, then all the tech they buy will be produced in Iran. If they don't, then you can expect the Indian plant churning out some things(plane/parts) for Iran as well.

@Daneshmand
Then there are different levels of ToT.

With a hundred planes, I doubt Iran would buy complete ToT (including the likes of engines) because it would almost double their procurement cost. Were Iran planning like 200 or so planes, ToT for engines, etc would have made sense. I believe it would be a partial ToT that Iran purchases, not full.

To be honest, if Iran does buy Sukhoi, it would be almost certain that a lot of stuff/spares would be sent from India to Iran - with or without sanctions.

 

[Serpentine]

TASS: Russian Politics & Diplomacy - Iranian defense minister's visit to Russia confirmed — embassy

Are you thinking what I am thinking?

 

[Hack-Hook]

TASS: Russian Politics & Diplomacy - Iranian defense minister's visit to Russia confirmed — embassy

Are you thinking what I am thinking?

I think if we go forth and buy these aircraft then majority of inventory of our Air to Air missiles and Air launched smart bombs become useless unless they go under serious redesigning in electronics. .as they are designed for American aircraft .

 

[Daneshmand]

It doesn't work that way.
The countries want in-house manufacturing when they buy ToT. Its not about profits.

When NOT buying ToT, countries look for least cost producer.

If Iran buys ToT, then all the tech they buy will be produced in Iran. If they don't, then you can expect the Indian plant churning out some things(plane/parts) for Iran as well.

@Daneshmand
Then there are different levels of ToT.

With a hundred planes, I doubt Iran would buy complete ToT (including the likes of engines) because it would almost double their procurement cost. Were Iran planning like 200 or so planes, ToT for engines, etc would have made sense. I believe it would be a partial ToT that Iran purchases, not full.

To be honest, if Iran does buy Sukhoi, it would be almost certain that a lot of stuff/spares would be sent from India to Iran - with or without sanctions.

As I said above cost is not an issue with Iran.

Iran is not a poor country. Iran needs technology. Otherwise only importing goodies, will do Iran no good. Iran has extensive experience with such importations which then result in tearful days ahead.

In fact India itself kept this in mind and that is why India strove and still strives to buy as much technology as possible. Iran must adopt similar policy. Buy as much technology as possible. Buy the toy factory and not the toys, should be the policy of Iran.

TASS: Russian Politics & Diplomacy - Iranian defense minister's visit to Russia confirmed — embassy

Are you thinking what I am thinking?

I hope it translates to a modern Iranian Air Force. Iran really deserves that.

 

[warfareknow]

Current situation reminds me of this picture.
It just becomes more and more possible. (Let beside the delivery numbers)