Iran and Turkey become drone powers.

[Surenas]

Loolll Armenian story,,,,,

Well, they tried to hard pressure those companies from continuing to sell these parts to Turkey, which led to your lemonade-seller turned president to foam at the west because your grey wolf army is completely dependent on western technology.

Canadian block on drone parts shows Turkey’s defense industry still not independent

ANKARA, Turkey — The Canadian government’s decision to suspend export of key drone parts to Turkey has once again thrown a spotlight on Turkey’s ongoing efforts to develop a self-sufficient defense industry.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan often boasts at party rallies that his governance since 2002 has reduced Turkey’s dependency on foreign weapons systems from 80 percent to 30 percent. There is truth in that, although the actual percentages remain a mystery, mainly due to the difficulty of defining what is truly a local or national system.

Most Turkish “national” systems depend on various degrees of foreign input, often including critical parts only available abroad. The T129, an “indigenous” attack helicopter, is a Turkish variant of the Italian-British AgustaWestland A129 Mangusta chopper. Turkey’s local industry has no engine technology.

The “national” new generation tank Altay is facing major delays, due to the lack of a foreign engine and transmission system. Turkey’s first “indigenous” landing platform dock, the TCG Anadolu, will enter into service next year, but the $1 billion or more ship is being built under license from Spain’s Navantia.

Even Turkey’s biggest success in the past few years, a locally-built drone known as the Bayraktar TB-2, features critical foreign parts — an issue now in the spotlight following Canadian Foreign Minister Francois-Philippe Champagne’s Oct. 5 announcement to suspend export permits of drone technology to Turkey, which is backing Azerbaijan in the recent Azeri-Armenian military conflict.

Champagne issued the pause in exports alongside an order for his ministry to investigate claims that Canadian drone technology is being used in the fighting. The decision followed an announcement by disarmament group Project Ploughshares, which warned the multimillion-dollar exports of high-tech sensors and targeting technology produced by L3Harris WESCAM in Burlington, Ont., are in direct contravention of Canada’s domestic laws and its international obligations under the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty, to which the Trudeau government acceded almost exactly a year ago.

L3Harris WESCAM, the Canadian subsidiary of U.S. defense giant L3Harris, is one of the world’s leading producers and exporters of electro-optical/infra-red (EO/IR) imaging and targeting sensor systems — both of which are featured on the Bayraktar drones.

“These sensors are integral for their ability to conduct drone warfare, which they’ve done increasingly... in the past few years across several conflict zones,” Kelsey Gallagher, a Project Ploughshares researcher, told Radio Canada International. “If the exports of these sensors were completely halted, then Turkey would not have the sensors necessary to conduct modern airstrikes.”

“This [the suspension of Canadian supplies] may cause disruption in the production line,” said one local aerospace analyst, “unless substituted immediately.”

“There may be some other foreign suppliers to be used as a stop-gap solution," the analyst added. "But this is mostly a Western (including Israeli) technology and may not reach Turkish manufacturers due to political reasons.”

Turkey’s top procurement official, however, has a solution. Ismail Demir, president of the defense procurement agency SSB, twitted Oct. 6, the day after the Canadian decision, that Turkey would soon start to mass produce the CATS electro-optical system, to replace the WESCAM technology used in the TB-2 drone.

CATS will be produced by military electronics specialist Aselsan, Turkey’s biggest defense company. Demir said that Aselsan has also begun to work on developing a future version of the CATS system.

Demir also talked up another new indigenous ambition: Project Özgür, or “free” in Turkish. Özgür is part of a broader upgrade effort designed to extend the life of the Turkish F-16 fleet.

“This program aims to completely nationalize electronic systems on our F-16s,” Demir told the HaberTurk newspaper Oct. 6. The full upgrade work will also involve structural and avionic modernization.

Turkey views the F-16 upgrades as a stop-gap solution before it builds its own indigenous fighter, the TF-X. But the TF-X effort has moved at a crawl, with no notable progress in the past few years, due mainly to the lack of an engine to power the planned fighter.

Canadian block on drone parts shows Turkey’s defense industry still not independent

Despite major efforts in the last decade, Turkey still requires the import of key technologies for its homegrown defense articles.

www.defensenews.com

Your army and defence industry is completely dependent on access to Western/NATO technology. Anyone suggesting that Turkey is in Iran's self-sufficient league is being ridiculous. The Turks have never been equal to Persian science and brains, not even when Iran is facing an embargo.

 

[Philosopher]

scrapping the bottom of the barrel eh? you're not producing similar systems to those, because if you had, you're not in the business of importing engines from abroad anymore,

You have already been provided with examples:

Example 1:

Example 2:

The newest engine which came out few months ago, Jahesh-700 turbofan engine:

Want more?

Iran has even signed deals with Russia to export such engines:

Iran to Export Mini Jet Engines to Russia​

Iran to Export Mini Jet Engines to Russia - Politics news - Tasnim News Agency

TEHRAN (Tasnim) – An Iranian private-sector company signed a contract to export mini jet engines to Russia.

www.tasnimnews.com

again this is the same arguments when it comes to Turkey, it can already produce those ASELFLIR but buying Wescam is a more convenient options. the same is true for the engines,

You're just repeating yourself now. Iran and Turkey are in no way similar. Iran does not need to import, whereas Turkey does. Iran will try to gain access to technology if it can, but not because its UAVs etc are in need of it.

Turkey already produce engine similar to a Rotax in the form of it's PD-170,

When that engine is actually being used in their UAVs then we can talk.

but for now it's more convenient to buy than to set up a whole industry to support making the engine.

Turkish UAV Aksungur flies 28 hours with 12 smart ammunition payloads

Aksungur, a domestically produced medium-altitude, long-endurance unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) developed by Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), completed...

www.dailysabah.com

.

Nobody is gullible enough to believe they are producing their own engines but are wasting money importing for "convenience".

beat that.

Beat what? importing some Ukrainian engine and using it to power a UAV? That's nothing to be proud of in my books.

I mean Turkey is not in the business of making bizarre claims like Iran, they're not in the business of modifying tankers to aircraft carriers. lel

That is called a Naval Expeditionary Base, perhaps they should learn from Iran and US then. Here is the American USS Hershel "Woody" Williams (ESB-4):

You're out of your league here. You do not have slightest clue what you are talking about.

 

[striver44]

You have already been provided with examples:

Example 1:


View attachment 713661

Example 2:

View attachment 713662

The newest engine which came out few months ago, Jahesh-700 turbofan engine:

View attachment 713663
View attachment 713664

Want more?

Iran has even signed deals with Russia to export such engines:

Iran to Export Mini Jet Engines to Russia​

Iran to Export Mini Jet Engines to Russia - Politics news - Tasnim News Agency

TEHRAN (Tasnim) – An Iranian private-sector company signed a contract to export mini jet engines to Russia.

www.tasnimnews.com

You're just repeating yourself now. Iran and Turkey are in no way similar. Iran does not need to import, whereas Turkey does. Iran will try to gain access to technology if it can, but not because its UAVs etc are in need of it.



When that engine is actually being used in their UAVs then we can talk.



Nobody is gullible enough to believe they are producing their own engines but are wasting money importing for "convenience".



Beat what? importing some Ukrainian engine and using it to power a UAV? That's nothing to be proud of in my books.




That is called a Naval Expeditionary Base, perhaps they should learn from Iran and US then. Here is the American USS Hershel "Woody" Williams (ESB-4):

View attachment 713667

You're out of your league here. You do not have slightest clue what you are talking about.

duhhh??

Iran doesn't need imports hehehe

According to the panel report, the Houthis continue to receive off-the-shelf parts for their drones and missiles via a network of intermediaries, as well as complete systems (including Iranian weapons) overland via Oman and by sea along Yemen’s southern coast. The smuggled components have come from Japan (parts for UAVs and waterborne improvised explosive devices, or WBIEDs), China (UAV parts), Iran (UAV engines and rocket-propelled grenades), Belarus (optical sights for rocket-propelled grenades), the Czech Republic (fuel system components), and Germany (UAV engines).

The UN Exposes Houthi Reliance on Iranian Weapons

In addition to dispelling any lingering notion that last year’s Aramco attack came from Yemen, the report documents Iran’s efforts to help the rebels acquire advanced missiles, weapons components, and training.

www.washingtoninstitute.org

btw the US never called it's expeditionarysea basing ships as aircraft carrier, just like they don't uses the word "destroyer" for a mere corvette

 

[Surenas]

Remember when US threatened to put sanctions on Turkey's military industry, and the Turks got so spooked because their entire army is dependent on access to western technology?

Turkish defense industry risks big damage from US sanctions

Turkey’s defense industry remains reliant on imports from the United States, as evidenced by the 2019 performance report of the Defense and Aerospace Industry Manufacturers Association. The industry’s $1.4 billion in purchases from the United States, mostly raw materials and semi-processed products, account for 45% of its total imports, which were worth nearly $3.1 billion last year, according to the report. The breakdown shows that $648 million worth of imports were destined for the Turkish air force, $564 million for civil aviation and $107 million for land systems.

The sanctions do not directly target state-owned military companies and the private sector, and a US source familiar with the decision told the Financial Times that the scope was limited to avoid hurting the extensive ties between the US and Turkish militaries.

Still, the sanctions stand to affect roughly 40% of Turkey’s defense industry imports from the United States and could have a devastating impact should they continue for two or three years, a Turkish defense expert told Al-Monitor on the condition of anonymity.

Air force equipment and land systems stand out as the most vulnerable areas. For the Turkish air force, crucial aspects include the modernization and maintenance of its F-16 fighter jets, the TF-X national combat aircraft project and Turkey’s reliance on foreign-made aircraft engines. In terms of land systems, the sanctions threaten to undermine the operational efficiency of radars, command-control systems and armored vehicles, among others. The air force has already taken a severe blow from Turkey’s expulsion from the F-35 joint strike fighter program last year — Washington’s initial retaliation to the S-400 purchase.

The SSB is currently running about 700 projects worth up to 70 billion Turkish liras ($9 billion), including many that involve export licenses. A series of national projects rely on hundreds of US-made systems and sub-systems. Looking from this perspective, the sanctions threaten to choke the Turkish defense industry in the long term.

Moreover, the sanctions are likely to discourage third parties from collaborating with the SSB, the defense expert said. Such risks would hover over Turkey’s tank and aircraft engine needs as well as a series of national projects on key equipment such as the T70 general-purpose helicopter, the TF-X combat aircraft, the HurJet training aircraft and the MILGEM combat ship and the export of the T129 attack helicopter.

In the past several years, the United States and European countries have already imposed partial de facto embargoes on Turkey amid myriad political rows. A case in point is the T129 helicopter gunship, which Turkey has sold to Pakistan but failed to deliver due to Washington’s reluctance to issue export licenses for the US technology, namely the engines, used to make the helicopter. The problem has jeopardized the deal, forcing Pakistan to extend the delivery deadline.

Turkish defense industry risks big damage from US sanctions

The US sanctions targeting Turkey’s defense industry agency may be seen as rather mild by some observers, but they threaten to deprive Turkey of key military technology should they last more than a year.

www.al-monitor.com

Turkey is only good at impressing fanboys from third-world countries on this forum.

 

[Philosopher]

duhhh??

What does that have to do with anything here?

Iran doesn't need imports hehehe
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/un-exposes-houthi-reliance-iranian-weapons

Pretending to be sleeping? You're posting the exact same news again:

Show me a single Iranian UAV that is using a German engine. I'll wait.

btw the US never called it's expeditionarysea basing ships as aircraft carrier

Neither has Iran. If you mean helicopter carrier, then these bases can carry a few helicopter thus I suppose we can technically call them as helicopter carriers, logic 101.

just like they don't uses the word "destroyer" for a mere corvette

Destroyer is an arbitrary term. Iran has no such exact term in its vocabulary. All warships are referred to with the same term but are differentiated by weigh, Such as light, heavy etc. Once again, you're clueless.

 

[striver44]

What does that have to do with anything here?

yah, am sure the khat chewing Houthi who spent their lives in caves before the mid 2010s are a bunch of talented engineer and geniuses they could assemble those missile at will. am sure Iran doesn't have any hands on this

 

[Philosopher]

yah, am sure the khat chewing Houthi who spent their lives in caves before the mid 2010s are a bunch of talented engineer and geniuses they could assemble those missile at will. am sure Iran doesn't have any hands on this

Nobody said they are alone, moreover that was not the discussion. You're flip flopping like a fish out of water. Try sticking to one topic.

 

[Surenas]

yah, am sure the khat chewing Houthi who spent their lives in caves before the mid 2010s are a bunch of talented engineer and geniuses they could assemble those missile at will. am sure Iran doesn't have any hands on this

That is rich coming from a guy whose citizens only recently lived in trees. You are in no position to belittle others for their civilizational progress.

 

[striver44]

What does that have to do with anything here?




Pretending to be sleeping? You're posting the exact same news again:

View attachment 713668

Show me a single Iranian UAV that is using a German engine. I'll wait.



Neither has Iran. If you mean helicopter carrier, then these bases can carry a few helicopter thus I suppose we can technically call them as helicopter carriers, logic 101.



Destroyer is an arbitrary term. Iran has no such exact term in its vocabulary. All warships are referred to with the same term but are differentiated by weigh, Such as light, heavy etc. Once again, you're clueless.

Destroyer is an arbitrary terms, why not call the cruisers instead?? too ambitious for you??

doesn't matter, your entire argument that Turkey is still dependant on imports applies to Iran too.

e May 14 strike on Saudi oil pumping stations (the only other occasion the delta-wing drones were used) were powered by two unlicensed copies of either the British AR-731 Wankel engine or its Chinese version, the MDR-208.

As for the Quds-1, the panel confirmed that the engine type powering the missiles used in the attack was an “unlicensed copy” of the small TJ-100 turbojet engine produced by the Czech company PBS Aerospace (Annex 16, para. 1). The Quds engines were merely labeled “Model T10S.”

The UN Exposes Houthi Reliance on Iranian Weapons

In addition to dispelling any lingering notion that last year’s Aramco attack came from Yemen, the report documents Iran’s efforts to help the rebels acquire advanced missiles, weapons components, and training.

www.washingtoninstitute.org

Nobody said they are alone, moreover that was not the discussion. You're flip flopping like a fish out of water. Try sticking to one topic.

of course it's part of the discussion, your weapons supply to Houthis have imports in them, doesn't quite match with your tall claims that Iran produce everything alone.

 

[Philosopher]

Destroyer is an arbitrary terms, why not call the cruisers instead?? too ambitious for you??

Destroyer is the most common term used for warships these days. But your point is weak, it seems to me you're running on an empty tank now.

doesn't matter, your entire argument that Turkey is still dependant on imports applies to Iran too.

Your best evidence so far that Iran is dependent on imports is some vague sources regarding Houthi systems. You need to try much harder. You cannot show me a single Iranian UAV that is relying on German engines, meanwhile every single one of Turkish UAVs are relying on foreign engines.

The UN Exposes Houthi Reliance on Iranian Weapons

In addition to dispelling any lingering notion that last year’s Aramco attack came from Yemen, the report documents Iran’s efforts to help the rebels acquire advanced missiles, weapons components, and training.

www.washingtoninstitute.org

Copy= Producing it themselves, it does not mean they're importing the hardware. I can see basic logic is once again going over your head.

 

[striver44]

That is rich coming from a guy whose citizens only recently lived in trees. You are in no position to belittle others for their civilizational progress.

this is Jakarta

Tehran looks outdated when both are compared

enjoy your mullah rule, am sure your mullah are the modern standards of civilization lmao

let's first beat our $1.2T GDP first , desert mountain people

Your best evidence so far that Iran is dependent on imports is some vague sources regarding Houthi systems. You need to try much harder. You cannot show me a single Iranian UAV that is relying on German engines, meanwhile every single one of Turkish UAVs are relying on foreign engines.

Sure "on some"
am sure those Aselsan, Havelsan, Roketsan as well as FNSS products are all imports.

better Iran find a way to beat Turkey in software, your CMS are very successful blowing your own boat.

Iran navy 'friendly fire' incident kills 19 sailors in Gulf of Oman

Nineteen sailors died when their ship was reportedly hit during a test of a new missile.

www.bbc.com

Destroyer is the most common term used for warships these days. But your point is weak, it seems to me you're running on an empty tank now.

no, it's not

 

[Philosopher]

Sure "on some"
am sure those Aselsan, Havelsan, Roketsan as well as FNSS products are all imports.

I never said "all" are imports, but when we are looking at looking at their UAVs most of the critical hardware are indeed imported. The discussion here has thus far been mostly the engines but we can expand if needed to include other hardware.

better Iran find a way to beat Turkey in software, your CMS are very successful blowing your own boat.

Iran navy 'friendly fire' incident kills 19 sailors in Gulf of Oman

Nineteen sailors died when their ship was reportedly hit during a test of a new missile.

www.bbc.com

Oh my, trying to change the topic again?

no, it's not

Your opinion is moot.

 

[striver44]

I never said "all" are imports, but when we are looking at looking at their UAVs most of the critical hardware are indeed imported. The discussion here has thus far been mostly the engines but we can expand if needed to include other hardware.



Oh my, trying to change the topic again?

what topic, software are just as important as hardware u know??? a lack of integrated military machine resulted in Iran spectacular blue on blue incident involving a B737 and a small missile boat.

 

[Philosopher]

what topic, software are just as important as hardware u know??? a lack of integrated military machine resulted in Iran spectacular blue on blue incident involving a B737 and a small missile boat.

Me- Turkish UAVs are heavily replying on importing their engines
This guy- Iran once accidentally shot at a boat

It seems to me you're starting to malfunction. Trying to change the topic will not aid you here.

 

[striver44]

Your opinion is moot.

no am not, I don't see US calling their LCS (a larger ships than your "destroyers") as destroyers, so do China, Russia and many major militaries.

Me- Turkish UAVs are heavily replying on importing their engines
This guy- Iran once accidentally shot at a boat

It seems to me you're starting to malfunction. Trying to change the topic will not aid you here.

it's relying ma friend, not replying, am sure you're the one who's starting to malfunction