International Real Estate & Development

[tower9]

This thread is for discussing real estate developments, real estate investments, homes for sale around the world. Knock off on your toxic bullshit here and discuss the subject like grown adults.

Here is a cool video on some upcoming developments coming up in Dubai. For the members who live in or are familiar with Dubai, how is the real estate market there right now? Worth investing in? Long term outlook?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

If you notice the thumbnail on the video, there's 1 giant parking lot in front of the oval shaped building in the foreground yet very few trees to shade pedestrians from the Dubai sun. There are no sidewalks but there is a... I think... 12 lane highway? So basically, you cannot walk anywhere.

There also appear to be only 1 parking lot. Even if there is a second parking lot behind the buildings... what about the people who live in the middle?

This is a high density development. Why is there no transit in a place that is highly suited for transit?

How much traffic is there gonna be going in and out of the parking lots during peak times?

The foreground slow road has a direct turn into the oval shaped building, which is poor design for a high speed road.

Within the complex there's plenty of flat rooftops which would be good candidates for solar and in Dubai would make their money back in 1 year. There are 0 solar panels seen.

If this is representative of how they actually think... well...

 

[Paul2]

Here is a cool video on some upcoming developments coming up in Dubai. For the members who live in or are familiar with Dubai, how is the real estate market there right now? Worth investing in? Long term outlook?

Dubai now is on decades low point. I think so.

At the peak of covid, it was possible to get a year long mansion rental there for $10k-$14k. That's 2-4 times lower than what it was a decade ago for the cheapest location/house.

No visa requirement for Chinese for 30 days , but getting a PR there need a AED $1m investment as a minimum. So, you can't get a PR with the cheapest apartment purchase.

And opening a business in Dubai is now much harder I was told. Purely shell company may longer be enough for a PR.

 

[Paul2]

There also appear to be only 1 parking lot. Even if there is a second parking lot behind the buildings... what about the people who live in the middle?

You Uber, or Careem everywhere. Almost everybody who lives there long time has to get a car. Gas there is cheap.

This is a high density development. Why is there no transit in a place that is highly suited for transit?

There is transit. Metro works well, very useful for everyday commute.

How much traffic is there gonna be going in and out of the parking lots during peak times?

Quite good. It's just like how Shenzhen has miraculously low traffic despite the size, and population. Very good urban planning. I would say Dubai, and Shenzhen have a quite similar feel.

yet very few trees to shade pedestrians from the Dubai sun

Regarding that. I worked in Doha on a contract for 2 months once. After +40, I think, you stop feeling any difference. Sweat flows like a river, and you run for the next airconned building. There may be a fast month there, and you have no water, and all food places closed in the middle of June in +50C°. Dubai I know is not that hard on this.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

You Uber, or Careem everywhere. Almost everybody who lives there long time has to get a car. Gas there is cheap.

There is transit. Metro works well, very useful for everyday commute.

Quite good. It's just like how Shenzhen has miraculously low traffic despite the size, and population. Very good urban planning. I would say Dubai, and Shenzhen have a quite similar feel.

Regarding that. I worked in Doha on a contract for 2 months once. After +40, I think, you stop feeling any difference. Sweat flows like a river, and you run for the next airconned building. There may be a fast month there, and you have no water, and all food places closed in the middle of June in +50C°. Dubai I know is not that hard on this.

There's no metro inside this complex. You have to walk around inside the complex for a long time to get to the limited numbers of parking lots. That's a bad design.

Dubai has nothing to do with Shenzhen. Shenzhen is one of the most high tech and sustainable cities in the world.

 

[Paul2]

There's no metro inside this complex.

I'm sure that there is a metro, or public transport connection to it. Mall of the Emirates is on the East of it, an it has a metro connection.

Dubai has nothing to do with Shenzhen. Shenzhen is one of the most high tech and sustainable cities in the world.

I would say Dubai feels really, really similar. Feels a bit Potemkin, artificial, but it works, aside from rare curious deficiencies. Two rare cases of planned cities actually working.

Just 10 years ago, Shezhen was quite unlivable, and around 2009 Baoan district felt like a warzone after midnight. 10 years went, and professionals in charge of a city kept plugging holes in the city functions one by one.

They still do. The city is still developing, changing. No more 200m skyscrapers popping in the centre of the city in under 1 year these days though, but still, it is by far the most dynamic place in China.

Dubai for example still doesn't have anywhere near complete sewer system coverage. Water mains are also overstressed from decades ago. Public transport coverage is so, so. But of the king gives money though, Dubai engineers are ready to do pretty much anything. If the king there says "I want pink ponies!" there will be pink ponies, and the city engineers with turn mountains upside down to do so.

 

[tower9]

I'm sure that there is a metro, or public transport connection to it. Mall of the Emirates is on the East of it, an it has a metro connection.

I would say Dubai feels really, really similar. Feels a bit Potemkin, artificial, but it works, aside from rare curious deficiencies. Two rare cases of planned cities actually working.

Just 10 years ago, Shezhen was quite unlivable, and around 2009 Baoan district felt like a warzone after midnight. 10 years went, and professionals in charge of a city kept plugging holes in the city functions one by one.

They still do. The city is still developing, changing. No more 200m skyscrapers popping in the centre of the city in under 1 year these days though, but still, it is by far the most dynamic place in China.

Dubai for example still doesn't have anywhere near complete sewer system coverage. Water mains are also overstressed from decades ago. Public transport coverage is so, so. But of the king gives money though, Dubai engineers are ready to do pretty much anything. If the king there says "I want pink ponies!" there will be pink ponies, and the city engineers with turn mountains upside down to do so.

The first time I went to Shenzhen was around that time and it felt like a dusty, industrial, wild west kind of town in comparison to Shanghai or Beijing or Hong Kong. I last went back a few years ago and couldn't believe how much has changed. The gigantic metro system seemed to be built overnight.

As for the Dubai mall complex, I think Dubai is a pretty autocentric city even though they do have a metro and I believe they are working on expanding it. It makes sense as outside of the prominent areas, there are vast amounts of open land so going around by car is pretty convenient.

Dubai now is on decades low point. I think so.

At the peak of covid, it was possible to get a year long mansion rental there for $10k-$14k. That's 2-4 times lower than what it was a decade ago for the cheapest location/house.

No visa requirement for Chinese for 30 days , but getting a PR there need a AED $1m investment as a minimum. So, you can't get a PR with the cheapest apartment purchase.

And opening a business in Dubai is now much harder I was told. Purely shell company may longer be enough for a PR.

Do you mean that Dubai real estate is at a low point at this time? Do you think there are good bargains at this time?
What do you guys think of Kuala Lumpur's real estate market? What puzzles me about Kuala Lumpur is that it does seem to have pretty decent infrastructure but many of the popular residential areas like Mont Kiara for example, are not even linked to the the metro system and it doesn't appear that the MRT will reach these areas until 2030. So not very convenient at all.

 

[Paul2]

Do you mean that Dubai real estate is at a low point at this time? Do you think there are good bargains at this time?

It definitely was a year ago when I looked.

Remember, what drives Dubai are:

1. Rich Indians baniyas running from taxes
2. Russian/Eastern Europeans stashing equally questionable money there.
3. Other Middle-Easterners
4. Westerner passer byes, to some extend

First two had pretty tough in last few years, but now they should be doing a dead cat bounce. Oil is high now, so 2, and 3 are to come back at least in some quantities. Indian economy is too seeing some hot money back.

Everybody are waiting when there will be a bottom of the selloff, and are too waiting for a good time for purchase.

What do you guys think of Kuala Lumpur's real estate market?

Always too many mainland people keeping the market perpetually hot, especially high end.

 

[Rezzka]

The real estate sector is currently undergoing some changes. Due to constant sanctions, conflicts, and changing trends, the market is quite unstable. However, this does not mean that it is necessary to stop the activity. It is only necessary to develop a different strategy that would include flexibility tools. Due to rising prices, many individuals are building houses. Many people apply for the services of surveyors to discuss any queries or concerns so that further construction takes place without problems. But, it seems to me that this is a waste of time and money. Buying a ready-made house is much easier and cheaper.