Indus Valley civilisation could be older than Egypt’s pharaohs, Mesopotamia

[Kashmiri Pandit]

History is boring to many people, often eliciting long yawns. But a new development in Indian history should make everyone sit up and take notice. A new study by scientists from IIT-Kharagpur and Archaeological Survey of India which shows that the Indus Valley Civilization is at least 8,000 years old, and not approximately 5,000 years old as previously believed demands a fundamental and objective rethink of old assumptions about the antiquity of Indian civilisation and its role in world history.

If this evidence, published in the journal ‘Nature’, and using cutting-edge ‘optically stimulated luminescence’ on technologies on ancient pottery shards, is correct then it would substantially push back the beginnings of ancient Indian history, proving that it took root well before the pharaohs of Egyptian (7000BC to 3000BC) and the Mesopotamian (6500BC to 3100BC) civilizations in the valley of the Tigris and the Euphrates. Researchers have also found evidence of a pre-Harappan civilization that existed for at least 1,000 years before this and it may force a global rethink on the generally accepted timelines of so-called ‘cradles of civilization’.

This is a quantum leap, if their claims are correct. The scientists are not just shifting a few years here and there. They are saying that their evidence pushes back the mature phase of the Indus Valley Civilisation (with big remains in Harapa and Mohen-jo-Daro in modern Pakistan and Dholavira in Gujarat along with a 100 other sites) from its current dating of 2600-1700 BC to 8000-2000 BC. This also pushes back the pre-Harappan phase from 9000-8000 BC.

Ever since the discovery and dating of the Harappa and Mohen-jo-Daro civilisations in colonial India, Indian history has been politicised: divided between those who believe in the Aryan invasion theory, those who think it was a clever colonial device to justify their own rule on racial dominance-lines and those who think Aryans may have spread into India through cultural diffusion. This has long been a crucial political fault-line in Indian history between the Left and the Right but this new evidence demands that we step away from ideological hardlines and objectively reassess our historical past.

After all till a 100 years ago, we didn’t even understand what the ruins of Harappa and Mohen-jo-Daro were. We reclaimed them as part of the Indian past because of new archaeological evidence put out by the colonial archaeologist John Marshall in 1924.


John Marshall’s announcement of Harappa’s discovery The Illustrated London News, Sept. 20, 1924.

This process must continue and we must look with fresh minds at new evidence like the discovery of a Harappa-like ancient site in Tamil Nadu’s Shivganga by ASI, for example, which may lend new archaeological credence to the narratives in Tamil Sangam literature about ancient Tamils and the Madurai and Pandya kingdoms. Received wisdoms should not inhibit this search.

For detailed discussion on the new findings and why it matters, watch our Times of India live chat on the Indus Valley Civilisation

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatime...ld-be-older-than-egypts-pharaohs-mesopotamia/

http://qz.com/694925/the-indus-valley-civilisation-is-2500-years-older-than-previously-believed/

http://www.indiatvnews.com/news/ind...old-not-5-500-years-iit-asi-scientists-331690

@Zibago @Nilgiri

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

I have exams , So I am going offline ^_^

 

[Zibago]

I have exams , So I am going offline ^_^

Semester finals?

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

What do you think of this, Sir? @Kaptaan

 

[GURU DUTT]

Nice Article but History of civilization may be even older than 10000 or even earlier of which large part went under the water post last ice age some 10-12K years back even looking at the level of sophestication in indus velly civilization that count have had come up in couple of centuries as suggested by the "western experts" there are even remains found of civilizations as old as 6000 off the coast of Gujrat , Tamil Nadu and even Karnatka and kerala all the way til bay of bengal which are now now fully submurged in sea water

 

[Max]

Ancient Indus valley Civilization is truly ancient..

In the cycle of time we will regain our lost glory in the world.

corrected and reported for trolling.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

What do you think of this, Sir? @Kaptaan

Most likely rubbish. I notice the team is entirely Indian and anything that mentions "mythical Saraswati" is allowing itself to be contaminated with religious mumbo jumbo. Something scientists should avoid unless they have agenda. And trust me the Indian's have agenda. Their problem is most of the "cheese" fell in their nemesis Pakistan. Indus is well, to put it bluntly in Pakistan. So what do I think of this? Well the cartoon below sums my feeling.

The way propaganda works is very simple. Get some truth. Then mix lashings of fabricated lies. Mix it. Then shout, shout, shout everywhere until the lie sticks or at least the majority buy into the garbage. This example of (below) being shouted to the world.

This methods used range from crude (media headlines) to making movies, to subtle use of language to deflect or shape the narrative. Examples of the subtle are:-

Harapa and Mohen-jo-Daro in modern Pakistan

Right so Harappa is in Pakistan. Period. In modern Pakistan? Okay, okay you mean it's relatively new state. Okay. Fine.

Dholavira in Gujarat

Care to tell me why "Gujrat" did not also get the "modern" treatment? Is it ancient? Gujrat is also a relatively new state.

It all boils down to Bharati refusal to accept that the British Raj was not their exclusive property. It was bunch of colonials with a common master. The British. The problem is Bharati's insist on owning everything that was under the British Raj once. That is why they insist on using "India" within the meaning as constructed by British. They forget that ceased to exist in 1947 and was a purely British manufacture.

Since Ganga India or Deccan India has nothing as regards ancient history to speak of they then cannibaliize Indus Land (Pakistan) to embelish their Bharat. Thus like the cartoon Jerry they drag the cheese (IVC) over into India by fraud, hook or crook.

And another geography lesson 101. Indus River > Pakistan like Nile River > Egypt. (Map below)

 

[A$HU]

Most likely rubbish. I notice the team is entirely Indian and anything that mentions "mythical Saraswati" is allowing itself to be contaminated with religious mumbo jumbo. Something scientists should avoid unless they have agenda. And trust me the Indian's have agenda. Their problem is most of the "cheese" fell in their nemesis Pakistan. Indus is well, to put it bluntly in Pakistan. So what do I think of this? Well the cartoon below sums my feeling.

The way propaganda works is very simple. Get some truth. Then mix lashings of fabricated lies. Mix it. Then shout, shout, shout everywhere until the lie sticks or at least the majority buy into the garbage. This example of (below) being shouted to the world.

This methods used range from crude (media headlines) to making movies, to subtle use of language to deflect or shape the narrative. Examples of the subtle are:-


Right so Harappa is in Pakistan. Period. In modern Pakistan? Okay, okay you mean it's relatively new state. Okay. Fine.


Care to tell me why "Gujrat" did not also get the "modern" treatment? Is it ancient? Gujrat is also a relatively new state.

It all boils down to Bharati refusal to accept that the British Raj was not their exclusive property. It was bunch of colonials with a common master. The British. The problem is Bharati's insist on owning everything that was under the British Raj once. That is why they insist on using "India" within the meaning as constructed by British. They forget that ceased to exist in 1947 and was a purely British manufacture.

Since Ganga India or Deccan India has nothing as regards ancient history to speak of they then cannibaliize Indus Land (Pakistan) to embelish their Bharat. Thus like the cartoon Jerry they drag the cheese (IVC) over into India by fraud, hook or crook.

And another geography lesson 101. Indus River > Pakistan like Nile River > Egypt. (Map below)

Leave aside the Saraswati river issue although ISRO's data has more or less proved the existence of an ancient river(presence of multiple aquifers formed by water seepage through a river all along the river length). Also the dating of excavation material was done in South Korean labs by South Korean scientists. Do Koreans also have an agenda?
Also the paper is published in the most reputed journal. It will obviously be peer reviewed.
Awaiting for your answers. Although I do have an idea of what it's going to be.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Most likely rubbish. I notice the team is entirely Indian and anything that mentions "mythical Saraswati" is allowing itself to be contaminated with religious mumbo jumbo. Something scientists should avoid unless they have agenda. And trust me the Indian's have agenda. Their problem is most of the "cheese" fell in their nemesis Pakistan. Indus is well, to put it bluntly in Pakistan. So what do I think of this? Well the cartoon below sums my feeling.

The way propaganda works is very simple. Get some truth. Then mix lashings of fabricated lies. Mix it. Then shout, shout, shout everywhere until the lie sticks or at least the majority buy into the garbage. This example of (below) being shouted to the world.

This methods used range from crude (media headlines) to making movies, to subtle use of language to deflect or shape the narrative. Examples of the subtle are:-


Right so Harappa is in Pakistan. Period. In modern Pakistan? Okay, okay you mean it's relatively new state. Okay. Fine.


Care to tell me why "Gujrat" did not also get the "modern" treatment? Is it ancient? Gujrat is also a relatively new state.

It all boils down to Bharati refusal to accept that the British Raj was not their exclusive property. It was bunch of colonials with a common master. The British. The problem is Bharati's insist on owning everything that was under the British Raj once. That is why they insist on using "India" within the meaning as constructed by British. They forget that ceased to exist in 1947 and was a purely British manufacture.

Since Ganga India or Deccan India has nothing as regards ancient history to speak of they then cannibaliize Indus Land (Pakistan) to embelish their Bharat. Thus like the cartoon Jerry they drag the cheese (IVC) over into India by fraud, hook or crook.

And another geography lesson 101. Indus River > Pakistan like Nile River > Egypt. (Map below)

You are just amazing, sir......I was also thinking the same that this rubbish is basically the showing jealousy of these Indians regarding Pakistan's history, culture etc.
This is the same mentality which claims our dishes, language, dress and other things as their own. Under nationalist/religious government of extremist Hindu Modi, what can we expect other than this bullshit, trying to claim to claim which was never theirs, never is and never will.
Jealousy has no limits when it comes o Indians. Pakistan Zindabad

 

[dray]

corrected and reported for trolling.

Uhh...now this forum is removing factual posts, Indus Valley Civilization IS ancient Indian civilization, and today's Pakistan was also a part of that ancient civilization one upon a time. Today's India is the continuation of the Indus Valley Civilization, the place dried up, people moved to east toward Ganges Valley, but the civilization never died.

I don't understand Pakistan's obsession with claiming exclusive rights on the legacy of Indus Valley Civilization, less than 70 years ago India & Pakistan had a shared history, even today Pakistanis are basically 'desi' people who live their lives, eat food, wear clothes, sing, dance, do poetry, have a family system, which is far more similar to Indians than Europeans, Americans, Chinese or Africans, and we still share the same place known as Indian Subcontinent. Land has been divided, rivers have been divided, now what, divide a history which is common to both the countries? Isn't it futile? Why don't you divide the air also?

 

[dray]

There is nothing called Indian civilization.. its Indus valley Civilization.. period.. rest shove that shit to patshala, mandir, shakha kidz.. not interested.. @Kaptaan sir can u rate this gangalander for rants and trolling..

The whole world recognizes ancient Indian civilization, there is nothing left to prove here.

 

[Max]

The whole world recognizes ancient Indian civilization, there is nothing left to prove here.

Indus valley Civilization.. India, Indian subcontinent, Indian ocean, Indonesia itself is derived from Indus... there is nothing called Indian civilization..

less than 70 years ago India & Pakistan had a shared history,

you should be thankful to Brits for their efforts.. the day they provided us chance we kicked out ganga from Indus.. India is name of region named after Indus (my land), its not a country or single unit as bharti think.. .. it was always divided between states and it will always be divided among different states.. Indus valley will always belong to people of Indus.. gangalander (its not insult, those who live in ganga valley are gangalander, why so offensive on this), jummna'landers can never become its owner by mere farts.. btw what shared history you bharti bengalis have with us Sindhi, Balochs, Punjabis, Pushtun, Gilgati, Kashmiris, Saraikis??

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

Semester finals?

Last year Exams Phela paper nai he rula diya

 

[jetray]

Uhh...now this forum is removing factual posts, Indus Valley Civilization IS ancient Indian civilization, and today's Pakistan was also a part of that ancient civilization one upon a time. Today's India is the continuation of the Indus Valley Civilization, the place dried up, people moved to east toward Ganges Valley, but the civilization never died.

I don't understand Pakistan's obsession with claiming exclusive rights on the legacy of Indus Valley Civilization, less than 70 years ago India & Pakistan had a shared history, even today Pakistanis are basically 'desi' people who live their lives, eat food, wear clothes, sing, dance, do poetry, have a family system, which is far more similar to Indians than Europeans, Americans, Chinese or Africans, and we still share the same place known as Indian Subcontinent. Land has been divided, rivers have been divided, now what, divide a history which is common to both the countries? Isn't it futile? Why don't you divide the air also?

Wonder what happened to their arabness? They want to have the cake and eat it too. They claim they are nearer to the far away arabs and no way related to the South asian region. When topic of land & civilization arises they are different from hindus( or residents of india) but land & civilization belongs to them.

Then where did indians came from, indian ocean ?

 

[Tergon18]

Uhh...now this forum is removing factual posts, Indus Valley Civilization IS ancient Indian civilization, and today's Pakistan was also a part of that ancient civilization one upon a time. Today's India is the continuation of the Indus Valley Civilization, the place dried up, people moved to east toward Ganges Valley, but the civilization never died.

I don't understand Pakistan's obsession with claiming exclusive rights on the legacy of Indus Valley Civilization, less than 70 years ago India & Pakistan had a shared history, even today Pakistanis are basically 'desi' people who live their lives, eat food, wear clothes, sing, dance, do poetry, have a family system, which is far more similar to Indians than Europeans, Americans, Chinese or Africans, and we still share the same place known as Indian Subcontinent. Land has been divided, rivers have been divided, now what, divide a history which is common to both the countries? Isn't it futile? Why don't you divide the air also?

How is Indian civilization the successor of the Indus Valley Civilization? The successor is Pakistan not India. At the time when the Indus Valley flourished people of the Ganga and Dravida (South of the Vindhyas) region were still uncivilized and had no culture. No the Indus people did not migrate eastward after that, stop trying distort history and put a Hindootva twist on everything. The shared history is just 80 years of Buddhist Ashoka rule, 400 or so of Mughal/Turkic and 98 of British rule, apart from that we have been seperate. Indian subcontinent merely is a geographical term referring to a plate/land mass same as Asia or Europe. That part about singing/dancing/poetry/food etc. is kind of ridiculuous since all these things happen from Iran to Turkey and Middle East and Central Asia as well. Yet you dont see them trying to associate with us or assume kinship with us. This Hindootva narrative of being one history and trying to claim the Indus Valley Civilization reeks of an inferiority complex brought on by a lack of historical civilizations of their own.

Wonder what happened to their arabness? They want to have the cake and eat it too. They claim they are nearer to the far away arabs and no way related to the South asian region. When topic of land & civilization arises they are different from hindus( or residents of india) but land & civilization belongs to them.

Then where did indians came from, indian ocean ?

No one here is claiming Arab ancestry what are you on about?