Indonesian foreign minister visits Bangladesh to discuss Rohingya issue.

[Nike]

Are you sure its not the Muslim factor?
And how effective will be your effort?

have you seen Indonesia involved in Muslim factor activity internationally in recent years or in decade or two decade? hell even we support the integrity of Yugoslavia during their civil war until they conduct massacre in Srebenica and the support for Palestinian is born from Nationalist fervor POV more than Ummah brotherhood. Heck even Indonesian Armed forces, Intelligent agency and Foreign Department agency had love for Israel made toys and maintain relationship with them regularly. We got no such kind of love for ummah thingy, Our NATIONAL interest is our main driven factor when implementing our foreign policy.

the effectiveness of our efforts can be seen from how ASEAN keep running on the show even when some member get conflict between them

 

[TopCat]

have you seen Indonesia involved in Muslim factor activity internationally in recent years or in decade or two decade? hell even we support the integrity of Yugoslavia during their civil war until they conduct massacre in Srebenica and the support for Palestinian is born from Nationalist fervor POV more than Ummah brotherhood. Heck even Indonesian Armed forces, Intelligent agency and Foreign Department agency had love for Israel made toys and maintain relationship with them regularly. We got no such kind of love for ummah thingy, Our NATIONAL interest is our main driven factor when implementing our foreign policy.

the effectiveness of our efforts can be seen from how ASEAN keep running on the show even when some member get conflict between them

Is Indonesia a member of OIC? Does Ind have diplomatic relationship to Israel?
How about Malaysia? Do they have a thingy for Ummah?

 

[Khanate]

Does Israel have diplomatic relationship to Israel?

 

[bluesky]

Because there is some struggler who came into our shore, their number is thousands. So there is problems with those illegal tresspaser meanwhile Philippine, Cambodia and Vietnam doesnt have the same problem. Help the poor Rohingya? are we obliged to help them? not in materiel and money but we will do whatever is best to resolve the conflict between them and Myanmar government by mediation

Yes, you are correct in your opinion. However, the Rohingyas need all kind of support from the ASEAN countries, of which Indonesia is a member. Without such a help these people will become destitute roaming here and there and asking for shelter, and Burmese troops killing and expelling them from their native country, Arakan.

ASEAN should ask BD to participate as an observer in its meetings where the issue is deliberated. A just solution is to press Burma to accept them as their own, because they are a part of Arakan since 1430. They must be given citizenship. An outright separation of northern Arakan from Burma is another option.

 

[Nike]

Yes, you are correct in your opinion. However, the Rohingyas need all kind of support from the ASEAN countries, of which Indonesia is a member. Without such a help these people will become destitute roaming here and there and asking for shelter, and Burmese troops killing and expelling them from their native country, Arakan.

ASEAN should ask BD to participate as an observer in its meetings where the issue is deliberated. A just solution is to press Burma to accept them as their own, because they are a part of Arakan since 1430. They must be given citizenship. An outright separation of northern Arakan from Burma is another option.

not easy, the reason why ASEAN countries very uphold about non interventionist policy is the very nature of each member to have their own problems in which they dont want other countries to meddle. As example, Thailand dont want other countries meddle in their Southern Thailand insurgency problems, Indonesia is very sensitive about Papua problems, Malaysia had their BUMIPUTRA superiority rights problem and so on. Maintaining Integrity of ASEAN is not an easy task so there is little chance ASEAN can be used as tools to made the member countries to change their internal policy.

Instead bilateral talks and backdoor policy is what you need to mediate the problems

 

[Kambojaric]

Good to see

 

[bluesky]

Instead bilateral talks and backdoor policy is what you need to mediate the problems.

Let it be a bilateral or a trilateral policy between Burma, Indonesia and Malaysia on the Rohingya problem. BD has not developed a strong policy to tackle the Rohingya issue. it is a weak country. So, I wonder what the countries in the vicinity should do if BD fails to put itself in a forward and hard position.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Let it be a bilateral or a trilateral policy between Burma, Indonesia and Malaysia on the Rohingya problem. BD has not developed a strong policy to tackle the Rohingya issue. it is a weak country. So, I wonder what the countries in the vicinity should do if BD fails to put itself in a forward and hard position.

I don't expect anything concrete from ASEAN. Not because it is incapable. It is a very capable and credible organization in one of the world's economic hot zones. @madokafc is correct to state that it is very important to recognize a nation's sovereignty.

The reason why I stated so is because the issues in Burma are far more deep than a random fire-fight over some temple at the Thai-Cambodian border. So deep that no one can handle it. Not even the U.S. They can barely maintain order in Iraq (another country bogged down by ethnic and sectarian divisions).

There is a question mark though. A month back, there was an attack on a police station killing 9 officer in the state of Rakhine. Surprisingly by Rohingyas. Along with other nuances, had they been illegal immigrants from Bangladesh (as they claim), shouldn't there have been a military response from them against Bangladesh? All I see is a sense of irony in all this.

Bangladesh has a weak policy? There is no policy on earth to locate a certain people due to ethnicity/religion/whatever to another place. The memories of WWII are still fresh among many folks these days. There's nothing we can do really than to just harbor refugees. Do not expect the Thais to do much either. In fact, they had become part of the problem by engaging with the human trafficking business. Getting a Thai visa for Bangladeshis is much more difficult now. Now that says a lot.

So what is our solution? Well, we have to ask ourselves as to what threats we face. No, the threat is not the Burmese military. The threat stems from the violent third parties operating along the border. These threaten the sanctity of our border. Some with even ISIS connections (apparently). The Arakan Army and a bunch of others should be designated similarly and under no circumstances can they operate on Bangladeshi territory. Leave no trace of their networks and infrastructure and capture their militants for information (an area we critically lack). And if absolutely necessary, dig deep into Burmese territory.

Eliminating these threats in a coordinated manner should be the prime.

Now, the best ASEAN can do is to ensure that these do not develop into another Palestinian vs. Israeli or Kashmir like situation. These things have been there since our grandparents were kids. The world cannot afford another one.

Under no circumstances can they allow this to happen. Under no circumstances can they allow that conflict to spread. If they do, then they can say goodbye to their prosperity. And that'd be on them.

In all frankness, I doubt if they have the resolve for.....THAT.

But hey, neither are ours. Some of the most simplest solutions are the most effective.

 

[Nike]

I don't expect anything concrete from ASEAN. Not because it is incapable. It is a very capable and credible organization in one of the world's economic hot zones. @madokafc is correct to state that it is very important to recognize a nation's sovereignty.

The reason why I stated so is because the issues in Burma are far more deep than a random fire-fight over some temple at the Thai-Cambodian border. So deep that no one can handle it. Not even the U.S. They can barely maintain order in Iraq (another country bogged down by ethnic and sectarian divisions).

There is a question mark though. A month back, there was an attack on a police station killing 9 officer in the state of Rakhine. Surprisingly by Rohingyas. Along with other nuances, had they been illegal immigrants from Bangladesh (as they claim), shouldn't there have been a military response from them against Bangladesh? All I see is a sense of irony in all this.

Bangladesh has a weak policy? There is no policy on earth to locate a certain people due to ethnicity/religion/whatever to another place. The memories of WWII are still fresh among many folks these days. There's nothing we can do really than to just harbor refugees. Do not expect the Thais to do much either. In fact, they had become part of the problem by engaging with the human trafficking business. Getting a Thai visa for Bangladeshis is much more difficult now. Now that says a lot.

So what is our solution? Well, we have to ask ourselves as to what threats we face. No, the threat is not the Burmese military. The threat stems from the violent third parties operating along the border. These threaten the sanctity of our border. Some with even ISIS connections (apparently). The Arakan Army and a bunch of others should be designated similarly and under no circumstances can they operate on Bangladeshi territory. Leave no trace of their networks and infrastructure and capture their militants for information (an area we critically lack). And if absolutely necessary, dig deep into Burmese territory.

Eliminating these threats in a coordinated manner should be the prime.

Now, the best ASEAN can do is to ensure that these do not develop into another Palestinian vs. Israeli or Kashmir like situation. These things have been there since our grandparents were kids. The world cannot afford another one.

Under no circumstances can they allow this to happen. Under no circumstances can they allow that conflict to spread. If they do, then they can say goodbye to their prosperity. And that'd be on them.

In all frankness, I doubt if they have the resolve for.....THAT.

But hey, neither are ours. Some of the most simplest solutions are the most effective.

ASEAN had forte to let their respective member Countries to sorting out their own problems and manage to localize the conflicts and so doesnt spread accross the lands. History had proved that from time to time. What Rohingyas versus Myanmar gov. experience today is in much small scale compared to much conflicts that happened accross ASEAN decades ago. As an example, Philippine gov. is still struggling versus Moros rebellion in which claimed hundreds thousands lives since it was started in Marcos era, Indonesia in the past had eliminating threat from Communism in which claimed half million lives before 1970, the Malayan insurgencies costing thousands people live too in Malaysia, all of the conflict is much larger and complex than Rohingya crisis today, but ASEAN managed to keep calm and do what they can to minimize the potential of the conflict to spreading accross the border.

All in all, since 1970 ASEAN member countries managed to growing their economy into extend to become much larger than Sub Continent albeit we are starting at much later times and have less than half of Sub continent population.

 

[Zabaniyah]

ASEAN had forte to let their respective member Countries to sorting out their own problems and manage to localize the conflicts and so doesnt spread accross the lands. History had proved that from time to time. What Rohingyas versus Myanmar gov. experience today is in much small scale compared to much conflicts that happened accross ASEAN decades ago. As an example, Philippine gov. is still struggling versus Moros rebellion in which claimed hundreds thousands lives since it was started in Marcos era, Indonesia in the past had eliminating threat from Communism in which claimed half million lives before 1970, the Malayan insurgencies costing thousands people live too in Malaysia, all of the conflict is much larger and complex than Rohingya crisis today, but ASEAN managed to keep calm and do what they can to minimize the potential of the conflict to spreading accross the border.

All in all, since 1970 ASEAN member countries managed to growing their economy into extend to become much larger than Sub Continent albeit we are starting at much later times and have less than half of Sub continent population.

I don't think I was being coherent enough. I did credit your organization, not discredit it.

And I didn't mean that it only applies to the Rohingyas. It is the whole the country which is still bogged down by ethnic conflict. And as long as that keeps going, it'll never realize its vast economic potential. Let's face it, it's economy is nowhere near that of Indonesia's or any of the ASEAN members (save for perhaps Laos or Cambodia). Something tells me that this Rohingya drama is a ruse to keep the country more unified. Every truly guilty king needs a boogeyman to keep his audience at bay and under control don't you agree? Or just maybe it's all about a silly little nationalist agenda among the Rakhines. Drug trade is also a problem in that country.

Look, every country has some form of 'rebellion'. Even the US and Canada have them regarding their natives. But Burma is unique. And that provides us a set of new and unique security challenges. Tell me, that police station raid....how did they do it? Who inspired them? Who supplied weapons to them? Who taught them? Someone must have! I hope you understand dear. We are dealing with a terrorist situation at home which we do not understand fully well. And that makes us paranoid.

But as long as you can contain the conflict from spreading and creating another Israeli vs. Palestinian like situation, then it should be fine for you guys. That was my only request.

Just one more thing: Do not tie our hands.

 

[extra terrestrial]

Well, they are looking very eager to have a permanent solution to this mess this time... Perhaps, a solution that includes contributions from both Myanmar and Bangladesh...

The refugee crisis of 2015 has actually dented the image of entire ASEAN...

 

[TopCat]

I don't expect anything concrete from ASEAN. Not because it is incapable. It is a very capable and credible organization in one of the world's economic hot zones. @madokafc is correct to state that it is very important to recognize a nation's sovereignty.
.

I dont know where you guys shooting at? Sovereignty is a vague word.
You cant just deny a ethnic group with the minimum human rights and chasing them away, even suggesting to deport them to 3rd country en-mass. Only the rogue state will resort to the term sovereignty when confronted.

International community have every right in 21st century to intervene diplomatically, economically and even militarily if such rights are violated. We dont live in medieval monarchic Europe anymore where this Non Intervention term was invented by the monarchs themselves to cover each other's a$$.

@madokafc knows very well how international community helped East Timuri for their plight in Indonesia. Indonesia could not hide behind sovereignty. Could they?

 

[Kaniska]

Why do not you work with China to pressurize Myanmar to do something about this issue??? If China can help to BD or other Muslim nations on this issue, then things could have been sorted out long time back. Myanmar depends a lot for ite economy on China.

 

[koteka]

Are you sure its not the Muslim factor?
And how effective will be your effort?

Don't listen to a secular kafir follower like > @madokafc . she don't care about Muslim at all
mostly indonesian Muslims supports Rohingya ignore her

 

[TopCat]

Why do not you work with China to pressurize Myanmar to do something about this issue??? If China can help to BD or other Muslim nations on this issue, then things could have been sorted out long time back. Myanmar depends a lot for ite economy on China.

China is in the same boat as us... Thats what they say.