Indonesia Pushes Ahead with Iver Huitfeldt Frigate Variant.

[Joe Shearer]

Did I say i oppose Indonesia acquire any weapon platform? But some fools decide to stop an enemy by using evil or Satan are no brainer. At even expense of own interest.

Since you are an indian. Do you feel yourselves a winner if you take back Kashmir or Aksai Chin but loses the whole Tamil Nabu or even access to Indian ocean? if US decide to make a deal with India but asking you to weaken China and Pakistan but in the process weaken yourself by losing southern India becos they do not want to see another great country posing a threat to them. Is that a smart choice?

How is this Indonesian exhibit smartness when he support countries like Australia, US who spare no effort to weaken Indonesia despite their support of Indonesia against China?

Those issues, without discussing them, belong to the places, the posts where they are mentioned. This post was simple, and the answer was related to totally unconnected things.

You are senior enough, wise enough to decide if you want to continue to stand by your position. I have done what I ought to do, point out the disagreeable impact of your post, and have nothing further to say. This bullying is sordid, nothing more.

 

[Nilgiri]

You are senior enough, wise enough to

 

[Joe Shearer]

No, seriously, this is no keyboard script kiddie. This is one of the best, and if HE starts posting like this, then this forum is sunk.

Even if he had put a smiley to it, I would have grimaced, said, "Oh well, he's having a bad hair day", and moved past the mess. But he was seriously saying all that. It wasn't a joke.

 

[Nilgiri]

No, seriously, this is no keyboard script kiddie. This is one of the best, and if HE starts posting like this

@T-123456 Joe makes me laugh from time to time.

Joe enjoy one of my favourite songs my good friend ...dont worry so much about these guys here :

 

[striver44]

leaks that the Indonesian variant will use US made MK-41 VLS with 2x24 VLS (48 cells)

it will be fitted with VL MICA (probably NG variant),

and the Indonesian Navy is considering the Leonardo 127mm Naval Gun

with 2x 35millenium revolver CIWS.

the Anti Ship Missile would likely be the standard MBDA Exocet MM40 Block III

But still this is not final yet.

@Nilgiri

 

[striver44]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1272070411614707712

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Beautiful ship, will share a lot of common arms with the Martadinata Class as well, what could be the Heli component?
NH90?

 

[striver44]

Beautiful ship, will share a lot of common arms with the Martadinata Class as well, what could be the Heli component?
NH90?

for the time being Eurocopter Panther

 

[T-123456]

@T-123456 Joe makes me laugh from time to time.

Yeah,he must be joking.
Or is he?

Indonesia Looking At Iver Huitfeldt-Class Frigate To Boost TNI-AL’s Blue Water Force


The Indonesian Government appears to be moving forward with a plan to procure two large displacement frigates for the Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL). The frigates would be based on the Danish Iver Huitfeldt-class and built at local shipyard PT PAL.
Xavier Vavasseur 09 Jun 2020

Following the Natuna standoff with China back in January this year (in which dozens of Chinese vessels were fishing in Indonesia’s Exclusive Economic Zone), Indonesia recognizes the lack of oceangoing vessels for TNI-AL and BAKAMLA (the Indonesian Maritime Security Agency). As a consequence, plans were mooted for the procurement of large displacement vessels based on Danish designs. Local media makes mention of this, quoting a Defense Minister statement made as early as January 17.


In February, an Indonesian defense delegation visited Denmark and toured the Danish Navy Iver Huitfeldt-class frigate Niels Juel. The delegation was briefed by Odense Maritime Technology (OMT) and Naval Team Denmark. Pictures of the visit were shared on social media by the Indonesian Embassy in Denmark.


Lastly, according to local media, the deputy minister of defense said in March that Indonesia’s PT PAL was tasked to develop a design for 2 ships over 5 years, for Rp1.1 trillion (or USD720 million) in collaboration with Denmark, for TNI-AL.

Picture: Indonesia Embassy in Denmark

Contacted by Naval News for comment, Naval Team Denmark’s Managing Director and former Chief of the Danish Navy, said:

Naval Team Denmark can confirm that Indonesia – amongst other nations – have shown interest for the Danish Iver Huitfeldt frigates. However, I am not able to comment on your specific questions.


Rear Admiral (ret.) Nils Wang

We also reached out to Collin Koh, research fellow at the Maritime Security Programme, S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore:


Naval News – Collin, how would two large frigate be enough to deter China in the SCS ? Wouldn’t the procurement of smaller vessels (like additional PKR or even Ocean Going OPVs) be more usefull because for the same budget Indonesia would get more hulls ?

Collin Koh – Two large frigates aren’t enough to cover the Natuna waters, where Chinese incursions are observed to take place often. At best, at any point of time, 1 out of the pair of these new frigates would be on station, albeit for a finite period of time and provided proper maintenance, repairs and overhaul schedules are adhered to. Of course, with the same budget, more but smaller OPVs could be acquired. However, I would surmise a few reasons behind the quest for the Iver Huitfeldt class. The first is that the Indonesians are looking at a larger major surface combatant beyond the PKR that is based on the SIGMA class, which is classified a light frigate. The second is the unique mission modular concept offered for the Danish design, which the Indonesians could be interested in adapting for future warships. It would appear that the Indonesians are keen on commonalities between the navy and BAKAMLA, which could be made possible with a robust modular concept. The third, which I believe needs to be seriously looked into, is whether the Indonesians could have been not so satisfied with the PKR programme, and whether this has to do with the local shipbuilders’ relationship with Damen. Again, this point needs to be explored.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1269641015545040896

Naval News – The Iver Huitfeldt is quite a more complex (and larger) ship compared to the PKR. Do you trust that local shipyard PT Pal would have no issues building those ships locally ?

Collin Koh – And to add that the Iver Huitfeldt is larger as well, and represents a wholly new design that PT PAL has to deal with. With proper tech transfer under the guidance of their Danish counterparts, and of course with Jakarta’s commitment to the programme, it’s possible for PT PAL to overcome initial problems of the learning curve and gradually become able to build the ships indigenously. We can take example from PT PAL’s collaboration with DSME on license construction of submarines. There were initial hiccups, especially over tech transfer, but these were later overcome and the Indonesians eventually managed to construct the third Nagapasa-class submarine, and became Southeast Asia’s first country to build submarines locally.


For the record, Iver Huitfeldt-class is the parent design for the future Type 31 frigate of the Royal Navy. A variant of the class was also being proposed for Singapore’s MRCV requirement. The Iver Huitfeldt-class frigates of the Danish Navy have conducted several Carrier Strike Group deployments.


About Iver Huitfeld-class

The Iver Huitfeldt-class is a 138 meters long anti-air warfare frigates of 6600 tonnes displacement, built by Odense Staalskibsvaerft for the Royal Danish Navy. Three have been built and all of them were commissionned in 2011.


The hull design of the Iver Huitfeldt-class is derived from the Absalon-class. The 32-cell Mk. 41 vertical missile launcher and 4 Standard Flex container positions amidships makes this platform a highly capable AAW frigate. The armament further includes two 76 mm OTO Melara guns forward and one 35 mm CIWS (Millennium) gun aft. They can carry an MH-60 helicopter.


The Standard Flex concept is a combination of standard platforms and different exchangeable weapon and system modules to match different missions or roles. Sensors and systems common to all roles are permanently fitted. As a truly “plug and play” concept it offers unique operational flexibility and exceptional lifelong logistic and financial advantages.


Mains specifications

• Displacement: 6 600 tonnes (full load)
• Length: 138m
• Beam: 19.75m
• Draft: 5.3m
• Propulsion: 4 MTU 8000 20V M70 diesel engines. 2 shafts, CODAD
• Speed: 28 knots
• Range: 9 000 nautical miles @15 knots
• Crew: 117 (total accommodation 165)
• Weapons: 4 × Mk 41 VLS with up to 32 SM-2 IIIA surface-to-air missiles ; 2 × Mk 56 VLS with up to 24 RIM-162 ESSM ; Harpoon block SSM; 1 × 35mm CIWS ; 2× OTO Melara 76 mm; 2 × dual MU90 Impact ASW torpedo launchers

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...ss-frigate-to-boost-tni-als-blue-water-force/

A good step forward.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I get that sensors and weapons make up the bulk of the cost, but I have to admit, $360 m for a 6,000+ ton ship is a competitive price-point. I think the UK selected this as the underlying design for the Type 31.

But I'm surprised to see that the Danes haven't partnered with MBDA et. al to offer a more directed export version with the sensors and weapons pre-loaded. They could've put up serious competition against the FREMM.

 

[striver44]

But I'm surprised to see that the Danes haven't partnered with MBDA et. al to offer a more directed export version with the sensors and weapons pre-loaded. They could've put up serious competition against the FREMM.

MBDA are missile manufacturers, Thales lost to Hensoldt because their offering (NS200) is so expensive for the Indonesian Navy.

 

[ANMDT]

2*24 VL *1 MICA would be for point defence, there also would be 4*8 Mk41 for SM2 (Wouldn't make sense to reduce to 2, and instead load VL Mica) but the question is: why mixing different VLS while all could be Slyver VLS with Aster 30+Mica VL or entirely Mk41? I assume the leaked documents was simply assuming they can fit VL-MICA in Mk56 like launchers and and double the amount, and they wont have to reduce SSM count to 0.
Pure Mk41 or Mk41+Mk56 would be a lot better solution in 5*8 - 6*8 configuration with 32 SM2 + 64 / 32/24 ESSM.
Guessing; ESSM was expensive for the budget or was not leased for Indonesia. But these missiles (especially 64 ESSM) alone might surpass the budget though.
There are 5 more years to complete the design so i guess it will be shaped later more accurately.

*1 6*8 cells means alot of space and doesn't make much sense unless it is ESSM (i will break down the math below).
Could it be 6*4 VL MICA or quad packed Crotale VT-1 in 3*4 Cells?
If second cannon is removed it would make some space available for 3*4 short VLS but this place is rather allocated for one more Millennium CIWS (see Absalon Class) , 2*24/6*8 would require extension of the secondary cannon platform (less unlikely) or of the hull from the midst (more unlikely).
Moreover, this ship-IH was designed to Carry to 48 ESSM by giving up all SSMs, Indonesian heavy frigate could allocate more but 6*8 VLS for VL MICA doesn't make any sense still, especially without Slyver + Aster in place of Mk41 for interchangeable missiles.

12 cell Mk56 occupies = 3.6 * 2.7 meters with 2.2 meters below-deck submersion. Need 4 of it (4 of Danish StanFlex already available in IH).
8 cell Slyver A35 occupies = 3.6 * 2.3 meters with 4 meters below-deck space. Need 6 of it.
8 cell Mk41 Self Defence lenght = 3.1 * 2.1 meters with 4.5 meters below deck space. Need 2 of it.

Mk56 Dimensions:
http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Weapons/Mk56_VLS.pdf
Dimensions of Mk41 used for relatively obtaining Slyver VLS dimensions:
https://chuckhillscgblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/19ed5-mk41_concept-mint184.jpg?w=584

 

[striver44]

why mixing different VLS while all could be Slyver VLS with Aster 30+Mica VL or entirely Mk41? I assume the leaked documents was simply assuming they can fit VL-MICA in Mk56 like launchers and and double the amount, and they wont have to reduce SSM count to 0.
Pure Mk41 or Mk41+Mk56 would be a lot better solution in 5*8 - 6*8 configuration with 32 SM2 + 64 / 32/24 ESSM.
Guessing; ESSM was expensive for the budget or was not leased for Indonesia. But these missiles (especially 64 ESSM) alone might surpass the budget though.
There are 5 more years to complete the design so i guess it will be shaped later more accurately.

the weapons system is still in talks so yeah there's a possibility that those leaks are not final yet. 2x24 could be for 2 ships, meaning that each ships will have only 24 vls (indonesia standard of vls aboard ships are 12 and it's multiplications, for example the Martadinata class uses 12 vls, this Iver variant should have at least twice or three times that (24, 36, 48). that explains why there are MK41's mentioned, we just don't know if we will buy ESSM instead of VL MICA, considering that ESSM is actually cheaper than VL MICA while offering superior range.

 

[ANMDT]

the weapons system is still in talks so yeah there's a possibility that those leaks are not final yet. 2x24 could be for 2 ships, meaning that each ships will have only 24 vls (indonesia standard of vls aboard ships are 12 and it's multiplications, for example the Martadinata class uses 12 vls, this Iver variant should have at least twice or three times that (24, 36, 48). that explains why there are MK41's mentioned, we just don't know if we will buy ESSM instead of VL MICA, considering that ESSM is actually cheaper than VL MICA while offering superior range.

MICA is avaliable with both 4 or 8 cells module for convenience, the reason why to hold 12 VLS in a single class of frigates does not necessarily means it would be multiplications of 12 in this vessel as well. There was 12 on the frigates because 3 modules were fit. Danish IH had multiplications of 12 since they have used 12 cell MK56.
However still, the image seems to represent weapons for a single vessel (since Main gun has been listed as single). This image could be dream of someone as well.
What is the cost of VL MICA? I thought it would be cheaper than ESSM (1 million USD).
I just wrote that post to point out 48 VLS for MICA + 32 /16 Mk41 for SM2 does not make any sense. Especially,i am not sure but, MICA could not be compatible with Mk41, therefore would require mix use of french/american VLS.
However, this ship in total might have 48 VLS (which makes more sense) for mixed use of point defence missiles and MR/LR air defence missiles. And they person who has written it down is only aware of VL MICA as air to air missiles. Now this scenario is accurate for 2*CIWS with 16 Point defence (MICA) or 64 Crotale VT1 + 32 SM2.

 

[ANMDT]

@Indos
I am aware of the tragic accident of KRI Klewang, but how investigation has came out to be? I have had eyes on some technical reports regarding to incident stating that composition of composites which led some parts to be highly flammable and caused the fire, and inefficient ventilation of the places which maintenance were conducted also led this to happen. but what are the chances of sabotage?
My question is rather, i remember 4 boats were planned, 1st has caught fire and burnt down (luckily without any critical equipments were installed-i suppose- and no casualties) but has 2nd or 3rd vessel been commissioned? Hadn't builder North Sea Boats already started construction of the 2nd vessel after launching the 1st?
The vessel undoubtedly will have great use in the future as PB or FAB and fits perfect to be unmanned , and i still have doubts for larger variants with landing platform due to economical limits of composite boat building,but who knows. Trimaran is still a nice concept that steel or aluminium construction could have been worked through.
i know ongoing R&D of Saab for unmanned version but Indonesia seems out of this unmanned project as of now. Also, Indonesian Navy seems a bit unwilling to operate large composite - unorthodox trimaran vessel. Especially considering TNI has given up on Chinese systems and faced towards European alternatives for radars, CMS or missles, and Klewang FAB was planned to be equipped with Chinese systems, what are the chances or modifying remaining boats?.
Given the current situation, i assumed they were busy with converting the design for European systems (millenium gun-which i believe suits much better than Bofors- + MM40 + Radars), before launching 1st vessel of the series; or did they scrap the project and preferred to have just 1 as an experimental vessel, or maybe 4 of the first batch of the vessels as a patrol boat?
which i still didn't quite understood why Indonesia has gone for KCR40-KCR60 designs instead of investing in single hull composites and creating series of multi purpose boats? . Especially assuming these vessels will be acquired in mass numbers, composite hull could have had benefits while building and operating -maintaining.
I can instead ask this question in a new thread if it attracts people.