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Indonesia military suspends cooperation with Australia

Timor gap is an area border between Indonesia and Australia, we don't hate china or chinese (there are alot chinese ethnic indonesian aprox 1% of population), and yes we don't agree with your 9 dash line in south china sea, i said this could be china chances to hold Indonesia on your side, but if you chinese doesn't wanted it, its okay, that your lost lol, having a sizeable friends such Indonesia for china are faaaaaarrr better than having it for a foe
again don't think your country is all high and mighty. a weak 50s China fought against superpower US. Indonesia cannot even hold its own against Vietnam.

if we didn't knew better i'd say our Indon member here is wishing to have friendship with the big boss of Asia all of a sudden after all this time with his anti China remarks. Is the so called leader of ASEAN getting desperate?
he is insecure. a lover's quarrel with Aussie now he want better relationship with china
 
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Indonesia could have easily take over E Timur. When they gave up and gave E Timur away. I could not believe it. E Timur clearly depends economically on Indonesia. Everything from medical services, education etc depended on Indonesia. Look what happened to E Timur today. Its a fail state.

As for Australia relationships with Indonesia. Australia is a very very large country with a very very small population. Indonesia is a country with a very very large population that is just a boat ride away.

Go figure.
To be honest with you, we feel relieves when we get rid of east timor, they are politicaly and economicaly burden for indonesia
 
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A Chinese member blown this out of proportion.

They "Suspended" the military cooperation with Australia, not "TERMINATED"

The real news on this is as reported by Sydney Morning Herald

Jakarta: Indonesia has suspended military co-operation with Australia following an incident at an Australian army training facility last year that caused Indonesian offence.

Defence Minister Marise Payne confirmed that the Indonesian government had raised concerns about some Australian "teaching materials and remarks" at the Perth base, which were reportedly witnessed by an Indonesian there for training.

"Indonesia and Australia will resolve this technical matter and then the co-operation will continue," he said.

Reuters reported a spokesman for Indonesian President Joko Widodo said there had been no discussion of the suspension with the president and the issue had been exaggerated.

"This was not a decision of the president," it quoted spokesman Johan Budi as saying.

Indonesian news outlet Kompas reported the suspension was triggered when a Kopassus trainer, who was in Australia as an army Indonesian language lecturer, found teaching materials that were ridiculing the Indonesian military.

When he went to the head of the academy in Australia to complain, the trainer reportedly found other writing insulting the Indonesian state ideology of Pancasila.

Pancasila is the Indonesian state philosophy that lays out the nation's broad principles of religion, civilised humanity, social justice, democracy, and unity.

Senator Payne said the Chief of the Defence Force, Air Chief Marshal Mark Binskin, wrote last year to his Indonesian counterpart, Commander Gatot Nurmantyo, promising to address the matter.

"Indonesia has informed Australia that defence co-operation would be suspended. As a result, some interaction between the two Defence organisations has been postponed until the matter is resolved. Co-operation in other areas is continuing," she said.

A source told Fairfax Media that some of the offending materials, if true, appeared to be truly insulting while others seemed to be scholarly critical assessments of the Indonesian military's past behaviour in 1965 or the East Timor invasion.

The executive director of the Institute for Defence, Security and Peace Studies in Indonesia, Mufti Makarim, told Fairfax Media that after the trainer reported the offensive materials to his superiors when he returned to Indonesia, the military requested it be investigated.

Kompas reported that a cable instruction, dated December 29 from Commander Gatot Nurmantyo, instructed that all military co-operation, including training with the Australian Defence Force, be suspended.

Mr Mufti said that according to an unconfirmed notification on messenging app Whatsapp, believed to be circulated by the Indonesian military, the trainer's superior requested the investigation on December 9. He asked that joint training be suspended until the investigation was complete.

According to the Whatsapp circular, the Kopassus Indonesian language trainer heard offensive material in class including that the late Indonesian military leader Sarwo Edhie Wibowo was a mass murderer and that a TNI police officer murdered his friend while drunk.

He also reportedly saw a laminated piece of paper which said PANCAGILA, an offensive mockery of Indonesia's state ideology, Pancasila, which basically translates as "five crazy principles".

"After he returned to Indonesia, he immediately made a report," the Whatsapp circular says.

"It is a fair request by the Indonesian military that an investigation be held," Mr Mufti told Fairfax Media.

"I believe, I hope, that this does not reflect the Australian attitude towards the Indonesian military and this just indicates a lack of oversight of teaching materials," he said.

On December 29, Tribun news reported that Commander Gatot Nurmantyo said a co-operation program in which an Indonesian language lecturer had been sent to Australia, ended with an apology from Australia.

He reportedly said the Indonesian language teacher had been asked to give homework to his students that included Free Papua propaganda.

"That Papua is Melanesia, therefore it should be its own country. So I pulled (the teacher)," Commander Gatot reportedly said to applause from the audience.

Senator Payne said the government was working with Indonesia "to restore full co-operation as soon as possible" and that the broader bilateral relationship is in "very good shape with extensive co-operation across a wide range of government agencies".

Indonesian security analyst Yohanes Sulaiman said Indonesia valued its military links with Australia and had sought to rebuild the relationship after previous diplomatic rifts.

In 2013 Jakarta pulled the plug on all military co-operation in retaliation for the Abbott government's refusal to explain the phone tapping of Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.

In 2014 the countries struck a deal to resume military and intelligence co-operation.

"I'm not sure this will mean a complete breakdown," Mr Sulaiman said.

Indonesian Defence analyst Natalie Sambhi said the Indonesian military was treating this as a serious issue. "The Australian and Indonesian militaries have had a long yet complicated history of co-operation and tension over the decades," she said.

"The current TNI (Indonesian military) chief, General Gatot Nurmantyo, has been critical of Australia during his tenure which appears to stem from sensitivities related to our role in East Timor. While this sentiment exists elsewhere in TNI leadership and has to be understood against the context of the military's experiences in the province, it is not the sole factor for Nurmantyo's decision, but could be a factor in the option to suspend ties as a stronger political statement."

She said Australian Defence Force and TNI (Indonesian military) ties comprised a complex web of bilateral and multilateral training exercises, education exchanges in both Australia and in Indonesia, dialogues and discussions, as well as operational co-operation in humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, including the search for MH370.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/indones...ld-for-technical-reasons-20170104-gtltai.html

The training WILL RESUME according to the Indonesian Defence Chief after the issue is dealt with

From what I hear from some of my contact, who was a part of that SASR regiment said the training material have used West Papau (which Indonesian considered as part of their territories and called it something else) and when the Indoesnaian soldier question the Base commander, the base commander does not give them a satisfactory explanation and they walk off the training.

Once they have amended those training material, the training will be resume.
 
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@Jlaw
As i said, this could be chinese side chances, not Indonesia, don't flatter your self mate lol
 
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Typical Chinese member blown this out of proportion.

They "Suspended" the military cooperation with Australia, not "TERMINATED"

The real news on this is as reported by Sydney Morning Herald

Jakarta: Indonesia has suspended military co-operation with Australia following an incident at an Australian army training facility last year that caused Indonesian offence.

Defence Minister Marise Payne confirmed that the Indonesian government had raised concerns about some Australian "teaching materials and remarks" at the Perth base, which were reportedly witnessed by an Indonesian there for training.

"Indonesia and Australia will resolve this technical matter and then the co-operation will continue," he said.

Reuters reported a spokesman for Indonesian President Joko Widodo said there had been no discussion of the suspension with the president and the issue had been exaggerated.

"This was not a decision of the president," it quoted spokesman Johan Budi as saying.

Indonesian news outlet Kompas reported the suspension was triggered when a Kopassus trainer, who was in Australia as an army Indonesian language lecturer, found teaching materials that were ridiculing the Indonesian military.

When he went to the head of the academy in Australia to complain, the trainer reportedly found other writing insulting the Indonesian state ideology of Pancasila.

Pancasila is the Indonesian state philosophy that lays out the nation's broad principles of religion, civilised humanity, social justice, democracy, and unity.

Senator Payne said the Chief of the Defence Force, Air Chief Marshal Mark Binskin, wrote last year to his Indonesian counterpart, Commander Gatot Nurmantyo, promising to address the matter.

"Indonesia has informed Australia that defence co-operation would be suspended. As a result, some interaction between the two Defence organisations has been postponed until the matter is resolved. Co-operation in other areas is continuing," she said.

A source told Fairfax Media that some of the offending materials, if true, appeared to be truly insulting while others seemed to be scholarly critical assessments of the Indonesian military's past behaviour in 1965 or the East Timor invasion.

The executive director of the Institute for Defence, Security and Peace Studies in Indonesia, Mufti Makarim, told Fairfax Media that after the trainer reported the offensive materials to his superiors when he returned to Indonesia, the military requested it be investigated.

Kompas reported that a cable instruction, dated December 29 from Commander Gatot Nurmantyo, instructed that all military co-operation, including training with the Australian Defence Force, be suspended.

Mr Mufti said that according to an unconfirmed notification on messenging app Whatsapp, believed to be circulated by the Indonesian military, the trainer's superior requested the investigation on December 9. He asked that joint training be suspended until the investigation was complete.

According to the Whatsapp circular, the Kopassus Indonesian language trainer heard offensive material in class including that the late Indonesian military leader Sarwo Edhie Wibowo was a mass murderer and that a TNI police officer murdered his friend while drunk.

He also reportedly saw a laminated piece of paper which said PANCAGILA, an offensive mockery of Indonesia's state ideology, Pancasila, which basically translates as "five crazy principles".

"After he returned to Indonesia, he immediately made a report," the Whatsapp circular says.

"It is a fair request by the Indonesian military that an investigation be held," Mr Mufti told Fairfax Media.

"I believe, I hope, that this does not reflect the Australian attitude towards the Indonesian military and this just indicates a lack of oversight of teaching materials," he said.

On December 29, Tribun news reported that Commander Gatot Nurmantyo said a co-operation program in which an Indonesian language lecturer had been sent to Australia, ended with an apology from Australia.

He reportedly said the Indonesian language teacher had been asked to give homework to his students that included Free Papua propaganda.

"That Papua is Melanesia, therefore it should be its own country. So I pulled (the teacher)," Commander Gatot reportedly said to applause from the audience.

Senator Payne said the government was working with Indonesia "to restore full co-operation as soon as possible" and that the broader bilateral relationship is in "very good shape with extensive co-operation across a wide range of government agencies".

Indonesian security analyst Yohanes Sulaiman said Indonesia valued its military links with Australia and had sought to rebuild the relationship after previous diplomatic rifts.

In 2013 Jakarta pulled the plug on all military co-operation in retaliation for the Abbott government's refusal to explain the phone tapping of Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.

In 2014 the countries struck a deal to resume military and intelligence co-operation.

"I'm not sure this will mean a complete breakdown," Mr Sulaiman said.

Indonesian Defence analyst Natalie Sambhi said the Indonesian military was treating this as a serious issue. "The Australian and Indonesian militaries have had a long yet complicated history of co-operation and tension over the decades," she said.

"The current TNI (Indonesian military) chief, General Gatot Nurmantyo, has been critical of Australia during his tenure which appears to stem from sensitivities related to our role in East Timor. While this sentiment exists elsewhere in TNI leadership and has to be understood against the context of the military's experiences in the province, it is not the sole factor for Nurmantyo's decision, but could be a factor in the option to suspend ties as a stronger political statement."

She said Australian Defence Force and TNI (Indonesian military) ties comprised a complex web of bilateral and multilateral training exercises, education exchanges in both Australia and in Indonesia, dialogues and discussions, as well as operational co-operation in humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, including the search for MH370.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/indones...ld-for-technical-reasons-20170104-gtltai.html

The training WILL RESUME according to the Indonesian Defence Chief after the issue is dealt with

From what I hear from some of my contact, who was a part of that SASR regiment said the training material have used West Papau (which Indonesian considered as part of their territories and called it something else) and when the Indoesnaian soldier question the Base commander, the base commander does not give them a satisfactory explanation and they walk off the training.

Once they have amended those training material, the training will be resume.
I knew your fake farewell was fake. you have no credibility.
:lol:
 
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I knew your fake farewell was fake. you have no credibility.
:lol:

Dude, what does that have to do with anything?

FYI, I never said I quit this forum, I said I started my MPhil and PhD Course so I may not have time on PDF anymore, in my farewell post I also said I will come back if I have time and In case you don't know, we just have a long Christmas and New Year Holiday just past week. No school until Jan 30. So I have time for some chat.

This is what I said

I don't know if I am going to be back here anytime, so in case I did not ever come back here, let me say this, good luck, good night, and goodbye, and thanks for the memory.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/its-about-time-to-say-goodbye-again.446959/#ixzz4Uqxu0Ojw

You do understand the word "in case" right?

Not that I care about what you think but since last time 6 months ago, you have been appear to be stranger everyday as time goes by.
 
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the people of east Timor are different ethnic group than other Indonesian. plus China recognizes ET' s sovereignty

West Papuan people is from Different Ethnic group, so you think West Papua is not part of Indonesia?

Indonesia could have easily take over E Timur. When they gave up and gave E Timur away. I could not believe it. E Timur clearly depends economically on Indonesia. Everything from medical services, education etc depended on Indonesia. Look what happened to E Timur today. Its a fail state.

As for Australia relationships with Indonesia. Australia is a very very large country with a very very small population. Indonesia is a country with a very very large population that is just a boat ride away.

Go figure.

Indonesia gave up with Timor Leste, because War with Timor Leste freedom fighters from 1975-1999 (24 Years) aleady Drain our Economic and Financial Resource so much.
That's the Costly war for us.
 
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That dramatic display from a whiner that was, farewell i shall not return :lol:
he's so full of shit. but I guess low IQ people buy his shit. I expect him to become fully active here again soon stating some other bullshit reason
:lol:

West Papuan people is from Different Ethnic group, so you think West Papua is not part of Indonesia?



Indonesia gave up with Timor Leste, because War with Timor Leste freedom fighters from 1975-1999 (24 Years) aleady Drain our Economic and Financial Resource so much.
That's the Costly war for us.
West Papua should be independent. different groups, culture fundamentally different than islam indo culture.

but you are off topic. by the way did you know China and US were the first countries to accept east Timor sovereignty ?
 
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he's so full of shit. but I guess low IQ people buy his shit. I expect him to become fully active here again soon stating some other bullshit reason
:lol:


West Papua should be independent. different groups, culture fundamentally different than islamo indon culture.

but you are off topic. by the way did you know China and US were the first countries to accept east Timor sovereignty ?
Lol, Indonesia is a multi ethnic, race and cultures not a homogen nation like japanese, coming from a chinese malaysian like you make it funny though lol
 
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he's so full of shit. but I guess low IQ people buy his shit. I expect him to become fully active here again soon stating some other bullshit reason
:lol:


West Papua should be independent. different groups, culture fundamentally different than islamo indon culture.

but you are off topic. by the way did you know China and US were the first countries to accept east Timor sovereignty ?

I don't know about that.

But, what I know US and Aussie support Timor Leste Independence in the end (1999)
It's funny to see, in the Beggining (1975) that's US President Gerald Ford give "Green Light" to Indonesia to Intervene in Timor Leste.
 
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Typical Chinese member blown this out of proportion.

They "Suspended" the military cooperation with Australia, not "TERMINATED"

The real news on this is as reported by Sydney Morning Herald

Jakarta: Indonesia has suspended military co-operation with Australia following an incident at an Australian army training facility last year that caused Indonesian offence.

Defence Minister Marise Payne confirmed that the Indonesian government had raised concerns about some Australian "teaching materials and remarks" at the Perth base, which were reportedly witnessed by an Indonesian there for training.

"Indonesia and Australia will resolve this technical matter and then the co-operation will continue," he said.

Reuters reported a spokesman for Indonesian President Joko Widodo said there had been no discussion of the suspension with the president and the issue had been exaggerated.

"This was not a decision of the president," it quoted spokesman Johan Budi as saying.

Indonesian news outlet Kompas reported the suspension was triggered when a Kopassus trainer, who was in Australia as an army Indonesian language lecturer, found teaching materials that were ridiculing the Indonesian military.

When he went to the head of the academy in Australia to complain, the trainer reportedly found other writing insulting the Indonesian state ideology of Pancasila.

Pancasila is the Indonesian state philosophy that lays out the nation's broad principles of religion, civilised humanity, social justice, democracy, and unity.

Senator Payne said the Chief of the Defence Force, Air Chief Marshal Mark Binskin, wrote last year to his Indonesian counterpart, Commander Gatot Nurmantyo, promising to address the matter.

"Indonesia has informed Australia that defence co-operation would be suspended. As a result, some interaction between the two Defence organisations has been postponed until the matter is resolved. Co-operation in other areas is continuing," she said.

A source told Fairfax Media that some of the offending materials, if true, appeared to be truly insulting while others seemed to be scholarly critical assessments of the Indonesian military's past behaviour in 1965 or the East Timor invasion.

The executive director of the Institute for Defence, Security and Peace Studies in Indonesia, Mufti Makarim, told Fairfax Media that after the trainer reported the offensive materials to his superiors when he returned to Indonesia, the military requested it be investigated.

Kompas reported that a cable instruction, dated December 29 from Commander Gatot Nurmantyo, instructed that all military co-operation, including training with the Australian Defence Force, be suspended.

Mr Mufti said that according to an unconfirmed notification on messenging app Whatsapp, believed to be circulated by the Indonesian military, the trainer's superior requested the investigation on December 9. He asked that joint training be suspended until the investigation was complete.

According to the Whatsapp circular, the Kopassus Indonesian language trainer heard offensive material in class including that the late Indonesian military leader Sarwo Edhie Wibowo was a mass murderer and that a TNI police officer murdered his friend while drunk.

He also reportedly saw a laminated piece of paper which said PANCAGILA, an offensive mockery of Indonesia's state ideology, Pancasila, which basically translates as "five crazy principles".

"After he returned to Indonesia, he immediately made a report," the Whatsapp circular says.

"It is a fair request by the Indonesian military that an investigation be held," Mr Mufti told Fairfax Media.

"I believe, I hope, that this does not reflect the Australian attitude towards the Indonesian military and this just indicates a lack of oversight of teaching materials," he said.

On December 29, Tribun news reported that Commander Gatot Nurmantyo said a co-operation program in which an Indonesian language lecturer had been sent to Australia, ended with an apology from Australia.

He reportedly said the Indonesian language teacher had been asked to give homework to his students that included Free Papua propaganda.

"That Papua is Melanesia, therefore it should be its own country. So I pulled (the teacher)," Commander Gatot reportedly said to applause from the audience.

Senator Payne said the government was working with Indonesia "to restore full co-operation as soon as possible" and that the broader bilateral relationship is in "very good shape with extensive co-operation across a wide range of government agencies".

Indonesian security analyst Yohanes Sulaiman said Indonesia valued its military links with Australia and had sought to rebuild the relationship after previous diplomatic rifts.

In 2013 Jakarta pulled the plug on all military co-operation in retaliation for the Abbott government's refusal to explain the phone tapping of Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.

In 2014 the countries struck a deal to resume military and intelligence co-operation.

"I'm not sure this will mean a complete breakdown," Mr Sulaiman said.

Indonesian Defence analyst Natalie Sambhi said the Indonesian military was treating this as a serious issue. "The Australian and Indonesian militaries have had a long yet complicated history of co-operation and tension over the decades," she said.

"The current TNI (Indonesian military) chief, General Gatot Nurmantyo, has been critical of Australia during his tenure which appears to stem from sensitivities related to our role in East Timor. While this sentiment exists elsewhere in TNI leadership and has to be understood against the context of the military's experiences in the province, it is not the sole factor for Nurmantyo's decision, but could be a factor in the option to suspend ties as a stronger political statement."

She said Australian Defence Force and TNI (Indonesian military) ties comprised a complex web of bilateral and multilateral training exercises, education exchanges in both Australia and in Indonesia, dialogues and discussions, as well as operational co-operation in humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, including the search for MH370.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/indones...ld-for-technical-reasons-20170104-gtltai.html

The training WILL RESUME according to the Indonesian Defence Chief after the issue is dealt with

From what I hear from some of my contact, who was a part of that SASR regiment said the training material have used West Papau (which Indonesian considered as part of their territories and called it something else) and when the Indoesnaian soldier question the Base commander, the base commander does not give them a satisfactory explanation and they walk off the training.

Once they have amended those training material, the training will be resume.
What an ignorant poster!!!

Cannot you see the OP and my immediate post both said about SUSPENSION / SUSPENDED... both of us know it's just temporary measure, though no one can be sure for how long such suspension is.
 
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I don't know about that.

But, what I know US and Aussie support Timor Leste Independence in the end (1999)
It's funny to see, in the Beggining (1975) that's US President Gerald Ford give "Green Light" to Indonesia to Intervene in Timor Leste.
sure but after collapsed of communism in eastern Europe they no longer need indo lackey so they supported east Timor Leste independence.
 
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| Wed Jan 4, 2017 | 11:13pm EST | Reuters
Australia expresses regret for offending Indonesia's military

download (7).jpg

Australian Army soldiers assist Indonesian Army personnel during the Junior Officer Combat Instructor Training course conducted by the Australian Army's Combat Training Centre in Tully, Australia, October 10, 2014. Australian Defence Force/Handout via REUTERS


By Colin Packham and Tom Westbrook | SYDNEY

Australia expressed regret on Thursday and promised a thorough investigation of "insulting" teaching material found at a west Australian military base that led to Indonesia suspending defense ties between the often uneasy Asia-Pacific neighbors.

Indonesia confirmed on Wednesday it had suspended military cooperation with Australia in December, a decision that was initially said to have been taken independently by the military.

However, Indonesian President Joko Widodo said on Thursday he had given his permission for the suspension of ties and that his defense minister and military chief had been asked to investigate.

Such military ties cover a range of activities from counterterrorism cooperation to border protection.

Jakarta and Canberra have had a rocky military relationship in recent years, and Australia stopped joint training exercises with Indonesia's Kopassus special forces after accusations of abuses by the unit in East Timor in 1999, as the territory prepared for independence.

Ties were resumed when cooperation on counterterrorism became imperative after the 2002 bombing of two nightclubs on the resort island of Bali that killed 202 people, including 88 Australians.

Australian Defence Minister Marise Payne said on Thursday an investigation into the offensive materials that were found at Campbell Barracks in the west Australian city of Perth would be concluded "imminently".

"We have indicated our regret that this occurred and that offence was taken. I think that's appropriate when a significant counterpart raises their concerns with you," Payne told reporters in Sydney.

Australia would present the findings of the report to Indonesia's government and military, Payne said.

Payne refused to reveal the exact nature of the offending material, although Indonesia media have reported that a senior Indonesian military officer training in Australia took offence at a poster questioning Indonesian sovereignty over the western half of the island of Papua.

Media have also reported that the same officer also found documents that ridiculed the founding ideology of Indonesia's National Armed Forces.

Papua, where there is a long-simmering separatist movement, is a politically sensitive issue in Indonesia.

"We of course ... recognize Indonesia's sovereignty and territorial integrity and that is our firm and stated position," Payne said.

She said the offending material had been removed and that all training documents would be "culturally appropriate".

Indonesia most recently suspended military ties with Australia in 2013 over revelations that Australian spies had tapped the mobile telephone of then president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.

Indonesian and Australian officials stressed that the bilateral relationship had not stalled, unlike in 2013.

"I think our relations with Australia remain in a good condition. The problem has to be clarified first at the operational level so the situation will not heat up," Widodo told reporters in Jakarta.

Australia needs Indonesia's help to enforce its controversial immigration policy that includes turning back boats carrying would-be asylum seekers. Payne said there was "no indication" of any change".


(Reporting by Colin Packham and Tom Westbrook; Additional reporting by Bernadette Christina Munthe and Kanupriya Kapoor in JAKARTA; Editing by Paul Tait)


RELATED COVERAGE


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You can't choose your neighbors. We have to learn to live together, no other choice.
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