Indonesia favouring China over Japan in railway bid - government sources

[Viet]

Do the rendition once again please when China really gets the project!
BCG is an united Sanctions of america company
Oh wait, who is interested in the second round bid?

according to the latest news, you can dump the first bid including all of your previous investments into the next trash bin. no worry, you are not lonely, Japan shares the same pain with you.

the indo now ask you for a second proposal. train with a lower speed and of course lower cost. With no garantine that they will ever accept it.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Have faith in this project guys... one more round...

 

[Keel]

according to the latest news, you can dump the first bid including all of your previous investments into the next trash bin. no worry, you are not lonely, Japan shares the same pain with you.

the indo now ask you for a second proposal. train with a lower speed and of course lower cost. With no garantine that they will ever accept it.

Hmm the case is not as simple as it has surfaced
There is a procedural problem with Indonesia
BCG should be engaged at the outset before Indonesia sent open invitations for a global bidding
BCG is not known to keep confidentiality only privy to its clients well - in this case the Indonesian government

Have faith in this project guys... one more round...

Faith is built on mutual trust and acceptable profitability of the project
I dont know if these qualities between the parties could have been eroded after this announcement by Indonesia
If the speed of the line is lowered, more manufacturers can meet the requirements and thus more bidders may join the fray

 

[William Hung]

Hmm the case is not as simple as it has surfaced
There is a procedural problem with Indonesia
BCG should be engaged at the outset before Indonesia sent open invitations for a global bidding
BCG is not known to keep confidentiality only privy to its clients well - in this case the Indonesian government



Faith is built on mutual trust and acceptable profitability of the project
I dont know if these qualities between the parties could have been eroded after this announcement by Indonesia
If the speed of the line is lowered, more manufacturers can meet the requirements and thus more bidders may join the fray

But who cancelled the deal, BCG or Indonesian govt?

I thought BCG concluded that China was the better option but Indonesian govt then decided to cancel it and ask for a lower speed option?

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Faith is built on mutual trust and acceptable profitability of the project
I dont know if these qualities between the parties could have been eroded after this announcement by Indonesia
If the speed of the line is lowered, more manufacturers can meet the requirements and thus more bidders may join the fray

The latest news indeed shocking for the most of us. But in my subjective view, i still can accept the reason given by Indonesian government to postpone awarding this project.

1. This project should not be build using Indonesia's state budget, directly or indirectly.
2. The project will be handled as 100% business to business, with investment from Indonesian state enterprise and choosen, qualified foreign partner.
3. The project should be built as effiicient and cost-effective as possible, so the future operation won't be hampered by financial issue.

Just one example, China propose 8 stations for 150 Km line using 350+Km/h train. After review, we know that with this many station, the train will never, ever, utilize its optimum speed. Thus we have to review the initial speed assumption. So the decision to lower the speed is purely technical.

 

[Keel]

The latest news indeed shoking for the most of us. But in my subjective view, i still can accept the reason given by Indonesian government to postpone awarding this project.

1. This project should not be build using Indonesia's state budget, directly or indirectly.
2. The project will be handled as 100% business to business, with investment from Indonesian state enterprise and choosen, qualified foreign partner.
3. The project should be built as effiicient and cost-effective as possible, so the future operation won't be hampered by financial issue.

Just one example, China propose 8 stations for 150 Km line using 350+Km/h train. After review, we know that with this many station, the train will never, ever, utilize its optimum speed. Thus we have to review the initial speed assumption. So the decision to lower the speed is purely technical.

Interesting input. Thanks

I dont know how many corps in the world will be interested in carrying out the project according to the harsh financial requirement of point 1 alone because there is a risk that the Indonesian State Enterprise can go broke. Of course you can argue the foreign partners may financially fail too. In these regards, it is fair that all sides should provide financial guarantees or due diligence have to be carried out by and on interested parties on their financial potentials

Regarding point 3, I agree it is pretty much the norm of industrial standards

For point 4, if you average out the distance between the 8 stations, you are having less than 20 km between each pair, that means the transit time required for a "start and arrival" is on average less than a 4-minute ride from one end to the next in a 350 km/h train. If the speed is slowed down to 150 km/hr then about 8-min. So it seems to make sense to have the speed reduced as the total length of the project is relatively short and of course you are not considering the prospect of extending the lne for a lot longer distances in future.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

I dont know how many corps in the world will be interested in carry out the project according to the harsh financial requirement of point 1 alone because there is a risk the Indonesian State Enterprises can go broke. Of course you can argue the foreign partners may financially fail too. In these regards, it is fair that all sides should provide financial guarantees or due diligence have to be carried out on interested parties on their financial potentials

Regarding point 3, I agree it is pretty much the norm of industrial standards

For point 4, if you average out the distance between the 8 stations, you are having less than 20 km between each pair, that means the transit time required for a "start and arrival" is on average less than a 4-minute ride from one end to the next in a 350 km/h train. If the speed is slowed down to 150 km/hr then about 8-min. So it seems to make sense to have the speed reduced as the total length of the project is relatively short and of course you are not considering the prospect of extending the lne for a lot longer distances in future.

Yes, we can say that this is a risky project, although the potential is also huge. So yes, due diligence should be carried out through and through. That's why Indonesian government won't spend our limited state budget to finance this project. The president decide that our state budget will be use to finance infrastructure projects outside Java, and use private investment instead to finance infrastructure projects in Java to spread out infrastructure development. If this project financially feasible, the investors should not lose heart to carry out this project.

I don't know about technical difficulties to extend the project later, but currently we are also preparing the Jakarta-Surabaya (700 Km) bullet train project.

 

[Keel]

Yes, we can say that this is a risky project, although the potential is also huge. So yes, due diligence should be carried out through and through. That's why Indonesian government won't spend our limited state budget to finance this project. The president decide that our state budget will be use to finance infrastructure projects outside Java, and use private investment instead to finance infrastructure projects in Java to spread out infrastructure development. If this project financially feasible, the investors should not lose heart to carry out this project.

I don't know about technical difficulties to extend the project later, but currently we are also preparing the Jakarta-Surabaya (700 Km) bullet train project.

Wow if your government has already lost faith on financial viability of the project, I cant see any prudent businessman will jump over the cliff on a free fall wishing the parachute will open well before he hits the ground

But if you can bundle up the 2 lines together, that may be something worth considering

 

[Aepsilons]

To our Indonesian friends :

Teryma kasi untuk meningjaw! Memung kenkan mimbuwat kisipak'atan lagih! Memwung kenkan putung kwi!

Jipang dan Indonesiya kerhasama dalam tuhuan kami lagih!!

-----

Let's make it work guys ! Jokowi, Japan believes in you!

Yes, we can say that this is a risky project, although the potential is also huge. So yes, due diligence should be carried out through and through. That's why Indonesian government won't spend our limited state budget to finance this project. The president decide that our state budget will be use to finance infrastructure projects outside Java, and use private investment instead to finance infrastructure projects in Java to spread out infrastructure development. If this project financially feasible, the investors should not lose heart to carry out this project.

I don't know about technical difficulties to extend the project later, but currently we are also preparing the Jakarta-Surabaya (700 Km) bullet train project.

It's not that risky at all my brother, Japan has shown He is able to invest in venture capitalist infrastructure projects in the region ; in the Philippines with the JICA inspired funding of various regional airports in as well as train rail upgrades from Manila to Cebu to Davao to Sultan Kudarat! In Thailand we have poured close to $2 Billion to fund the railway linking Krungthep to Chiang Mai. In Burma , Japan is prepared to write $5 billion in the construction of Dawei Port Project , in Bangladesh Japan is vested $2 Billion for the deep seaport that will connect Chittagong , Dakha, and the rest of the upper country. In Vietnam, we have poured over $35 billion in infrastructure projects . Indonesia is one of our largest trading partners in ASEAN, and home to large scale Japanese manufacturing , so please understand that Japan will accommodate Indonesia's sensitivities, as we have always done in our long and fraternal relations.

I am optimistic.

But who cancelled the deal, BCG or Indonesian govt?

I thought BCG concluded that China was the better option but Indonesian govt then decided to cancel it and ask for a lower speed option?

From my sources, Jakarta is looking for a comprehensive review and revision of assessment points. After this, policy goals will be forwarded to the proper channels in bids. Long term wise, I see Japan snagging this deal.

Japan has already got another huge project, around 50 trillion Rupiah for the largest and most modern coal power plan in South East Asia

Correct, Brother.

 

[Beidou2020]

US will do everything in its power to convince Indonesia to buy the Japanese trains.

US knew China was about to win the project and sabotaged it.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

I won't assume anything about this project at this point. Let's just wait and see...

 

[Beidou2020]

I won't assume anything about this project at this point. Let's just wait and see...

I told you someone will do something to make this project fail. The first hint that China was the favourite would have led the US to send its agents to sabotage it.

 

[Keel]

I told you someone will do something to make this project fail. The first hint that China was the favourite would have led the US to send its agents to sabotage it.

@Beidou2020

Be cool bro

Let the Indonesians do the talking now please
Dont waste time on speculations or conspiracy theories which wont help the outcome as of now

Amateurs were eager to list the resume of projects from their camp on a forum which is so funny as if the Indonesian government doesnt have the details on hand during the bidding process.

Relax man and see what is going to happen next

 

[MarveL]

i myself prefer shinkansen over cina, for the safety reason. The Japanese took three-and-a-half years to complete the feasibility study before the Chinese joined in the bid.

Indonesia dumps plans for high-speed rail line
Indonesia has opted for a medium-speed rail line between Jakarta and Bandung, dropping its much-vaunted plans for its first high-speed railway.

Indonesia dumps plans for high-speed rail line - Channel NewsAsia

 

[TaiShang]

Indonesia has delayed the announcement of the winner of a hotly contested competition between China and Japan to build the first high-speed railway in southeast Asia’s biggest economy.

The train of the future. Moving at more than 300 Kilometers an hour. They looked like fancy toys, but in fact were part of China’s effort to persuade Indonesia to partner with its companies - instead of Japan’s. To build the nation’s first high-speed rail line, which will link the capital Jakarta with Bandung, the nation’s third-largest city.

"This is an opportunity for Indonesia to upgrade our train networks, it's long overdue, we are still using the same network since 100 years ago," Transport analyst Harun Al Rasyid said.

The Asian giants are locked in a bid for this landmark project for the emerging if struggling giant, Indonesia that is expected to become Asia’s next trillion-dollar economy and to spend heavily on infrastructure to get there.

While Japan's bullet trains have operated longer and have a proven safety record.. China is the largest manufacturer of bullet trains, accounting for more than half of world's bullet train production

For Indonesia, this project will be one of the most important development for the country as this new railway is expected to spur not only the transportation sector but also the country's economy

A vision that is shared by the Chinese representative.

"The high speed railway has fostered a lot of economic opportunities 3.59 like the real estate, like the logistic, like the tourists. Like the job opps also, from different kinds. 4.10 manufacturing, civil works, etc. So the macro view for the high speed trains, will be prosperous not for railway itself but for the communities. 4.26,” Yang Yong with China Railway International said.

But before reaping the benefits of this high speed train, Indonesia must overcome one of its' biggest development obstacles

"Indonesia's 2 main problems in infrastructure have always been funding and land acquisition, with this offer the funding is taken care of, now it's up to the government to solve the land aquisition," Transport analyst Harun Al Rasyid said.

CCTV