Indonesia explores possibility of obtaining US aid to finance base in South China Sea

[UMNOPutra]

For the US, this move is part of its agenda to strengthen the cooperation between the two countries. They could help us to fund the upgrade of Natuna military facilities, and Indonesia will help them by conducting the Joint Patrol initiative, together with US on Natuna Sea to secure this important shipping lanes, south of the SCS. Win win for both.

Hahahaha .... There is no "free lunch" in the international relationship .... If you can play "Smart" ... you can get more benefit ... not only from USA and its allies ... but also from China ...

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

My general view is that why bother with Island patrol , worry about the main country and economics.
Every thing can be solved by dialog

The island won't generate any major income

Rather it drains income by the "fuel spent" patrolling and then food for sailors , and then other expenses etc colossal waste of money

The problem with free lunch its , you loose a lot on economical trade area regional economics

 

[ShioTikus]

Hahahaha .... There is no "free lunch" in the international relationship .... If you can play "Smart" ... you can get more benefit ... not only from USA and its allies ... but also from China ...

yeah, like chinese vessels in your EEZ water.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Indonesia always play it smart. We get billion of investment, trade and mega infrastructure projects from China, plus billion of investment, trade and millitary support from USA.

Natuna sits in a very strategic spot in South China Sea. This area is blessed with abundant natural resources, like fish, natural gas and oil. Natuna also lies safely within Indonesia's grip and nobody contest its sovereignty, not even China.

So, it's normal and expected for Indonesia to secure this very important waters. Joint patrol with US in exchange for military facilities upgrade in Natuna is in my opinion smart.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

do the philipine get good USA weaponry for harboring US millitary all this long??
the answer is NO,
obtaining it you need to purchase it your selfself.
US millitary already have presence in singapore and phillipine and soon in vietnam, let them deal with the chinese

Please leave Singapore out of this

 

[initial_d]

My general view is that why bother with Islannatural , worry about the main country and economics.
Every thing can be solved by dialog

The island won't generate any major income

Rather it drains income by the "fuel spent" patrolling and then food for sailors , and then other expenses etc colossal waste of money

The problem with free lunch its , you loose a lot on economical trade area regional economics

lol, you dont know a thing about the surrounding natuna islands, it's rich of natural resources from natural gasses to rich fishing ground, not just economically but the location also strategically important in international trade route.

 

[GerhardA]

yeah, like chinese vessels in your EEZ water.

The moment our ships appear they ran away. China won't risk making us lean further to the west. They are not dumb.

Indo military is best at going against PH and Vietnam capturing their fishing boats and blowing them up.

We can take on any invading nation and that's when using less (in percentage of our total budget) compared to certain countries. That's our doctrine. We are made to be a defensive/guerilla force and all of our citizens will help the military to repel any country dumb enough to attack us. You might win at the start but you are f**ked in the long run.

Do you think that low percentage will stay the same for long, if you decide to f**k with us and threaten our security and existence? Do you think we will also stay neutral, if that happens? Do you know how surrounded and f**ked you would be, if we decide to ally with the west?

Don't f**k with the last big country in the region, that is friendly or at least neutral to you. Even China can't win alone.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Please leave Singapore out of this

But you are a U.S ally.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

But you are a U.S ally.

ya- and we are a Chinese genetic, cultural and economic ally too. Impossible to antagonise China in the name of American adventurism and exceptionalism.

neutralism at best, in a conflict involving china n the US

 

[mike2000 is back]

ya- and we are a Chinese genetic, cultural and economic ally too. Impossible to antagonise China in the name of American adventurism and exceptionalism.

neutralism at best, in a conflict involving china n the US

Huh.....I don't think being of Chinese descent means automatically being a Chinese ally.(if anything it's often the opposite). UKRAINE and Georgia for example can also be considered being of Russian descent(once even a part of Russia), but they are not exactly fond of Russia. So I don't believe being of similar descent automatically means you will be allies. Same as Taiwan not being a Chinese ally(instead a major U.S ally) despite being 100% of Chinese descent. Geo-politics doesn't works that way unfortunately.

Singapore shouldn't have let/invited U.S and U.K access to its naval base as our royal navy ships use Singapore changing base under the British led 5 Defence power agreement , while the US Navy uses Singapore's naval facilities for logistics and re-supply of its vast naval fleet in South Asia/Malacca Straits. Don't think it was a good move to antagonise China especially vis a vis the US, since U.K and China don't have much conflict of interests thus our presence won't cause any concern.But not so for the U.S who is a rival to China.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changi_Naval_Base

The U.S navy has already basically surrounded Asia Pacific and SEA with military bases and logistics supply bases(India will soon be another addition.) From Japan, to Taiwan, to Philippines, to Guam, to Singapore to Australia to South Korea , to maybe soon even Vietnam etc etc. They simply have too many allies in the region, adding Indonesia(SEA largest country and economic power) will be another nightmare for China's aspiration to break off the first and second island chain and gain some strategic space for its naval operations in its own Asian region and will ensure U.S continous naval domination of Asia. So I believe China should seek to pull Indonesia on its side at least to remain neutral. You can't be a rising power surrounded by Hostile countries. Complicate things alot.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

Huh.....I don't think Beng of Chinese descent means automatically being a Chinese ally. UKRAINE an Georgia for example can also be considered being of Russian descent(once even a part of Russia), but they are not exactly fond of Russia. So I don't believe being of similar descent automatically means you will be allies. Same as Taiwan not being a Chinese ally(instead a popular U.S one) despite being 100% of Chinese descent. Geo politics doesn't works that way unfortunately.

Singapore shouldn't have let/invited U.S and U.K access to its naval base as our royal navy ships use Singapore changing base under the British led 5 defence power agreement , while the US Navy uses Singapore's naval facilities for logistics and re-supply of its vast naval fleet. Don't think it was a good move to antagonise China especially bis a vis the US, since U.K and China don't have much conflict of interests thus our presence won't cause any concern.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changi_Naval_Base

The U.S navy has already basically surrounded Asia Pacific and SEA with military bases and logistics supply bases(India will soon be another addition.) From Japan, to Taiwan, to Philippines, to Guam, to Singapore to Australia to South Korea , to maybe soon even Vietnam etc etc. They simply have too many allies in the region, adding Indonesia(SEA largest country and economic power) will be another nightmare for China's aspiration to break off the first and second island chain and gain some strategic space for its naval operations in its own Asian region and will ensure U.S continous naval domination of Asia. So I believe China should seek to pull Indonesia close to at least remain neutral. You can't be a rising power surrounded by Hostile countries. Complicate things alot.

my end statement(im lazy to go deeper why Singapore will not antagonise China based on ties and the fact u r utilising apples by using Taiwan as an analogy to 'geopolitics' when im talking about oranges points us in that direction- same as the thread of Singapore's 'immigration problems' and history debate we had ):

Neutralism for Singapore at best- in a conflict involving the US and China

 

[mike2000 is back]

my end statement(im lazy to go deeper why Singapore will not antagonise China based on ties and the fact u r utilising apples by using Taiwan as an analogy to 'geopolitics' when im talking about oranges points us in that direction- same as the thread of Singapore's 'immigration problems' and history debate we had ):

Neutralism for Singapore at best- in a conflict involving the US and China

Ok if you say so.
I was just pointing out that you can't be a neutral player while you host military forces of one party and providing them access to your military facilities ,while not doing so for the other party.
In this regard , it's fair to say the only major player in the region who is really neutral per se is Indonesia. Since they host no foreign base on their soil and have no real conflict of interests with China, apart from some minor disagreements over fishing rights/limits. So China in my opinion should court Indonesia more than any other country in the region.

 

[Sanchez]

I think that Singapore is being considered as antagonist to China on SCS issues. Natuna was a place mainly developed by people of Chinese. It's a good gesture that China does not claim it. But if ID wants smart play by building pro-US military bases there China has hundreds of ways to make you feel pain.

It's stuipid that smaller states think they are smart playing between the major powers.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

First, Natuna developed by Chinese is Bull****.

Next,
The extensive military infrastructure upgrade in Natuna is already started and will be completed by 2018. And nothing can stop the progress, except maybe for the lack of funds. And that's where US come into pictures. While US would have no right to utilize the facilities, it's within her interest that Indonesia will stay neutral and have competent defensive and offensive abilities to guard and protect the surrounding waters for International FON.

In Natuna issue alone, Indonesia is a heavyweight. We can counter any external nuisance and keep the peace and order on the high seas. China can unilaterally claim most of SCS and tussling with some ASEAN nations forever. But Indonesia effectively controls the south part of SCS without any challange. Not even China have the will power to challange Indonesia over Natuna sea. And this is a music to US's ear.

That's why funding military infrastructures upgrade in Natuna is within US interest. And they will not miss the opportunity to strengthen their standing position while in the same time boosting the currently cordial relation with Indonesia.

 

[Jlaw]

First, Natuna developed by Chinese is Bull****.

Next,
The extensive military infrastructure upgrade in Natuna is already started and will be completed by 2018. And nothing can stop the progress, except maybe for the lack of funds. And that's where US come into pictures. While US would have no right to utilize the facilities, it's within her interest that Indonesia will stay neutral and have competent defensive and offensive abilities to guard and protect the surrounding waters for International FON.

In Natuna issue alone, Indonesia is a heavyweight. We can counter any external nuisance and keep the peace and order on the high seas. China can unilaterally claim most of SCS and tussling with some ASEAN nations forever. But Indonesia effectively controls the south part of SCS without any challange. Not even China have the will power to challange Indonesia over Natuna sea. And this is a music to US's ear.

That's why funding military infrastructures upgrade in Natuna is within US interest. And they will not miss the opportunity to strengthen their standing position while in the same time boosting the currently cordial relation with Indonesia.

LOL, indos brag too much like indians. perhaps you guys are the same people?

Natuna island is mainly Malay population. Why is it indo territory? Can any Malaysian answer this? @powastick