Indonesia Defence Forum

[Nike]

China seems to not only being greedy in claiming SCS, but rather much portion of their personnel too believe in the bullshit ancient fishing ground claim sincerely, which is kinda delusional but expected of such a state.

Well no one believe their bullshit. Since tsunami 2004, US had show us clearly on how to become a friend in need even when politics is not normalized, thats how true friendship work

There is tendency in some SEA countries to get closer with China, Philippines, Thailand, Myanmar, Laos , Kamboja and even Malaysia, sooner or later they Will fall under China sphere of influence, we have a laverage in SCS conflict since we a have dispute in north Natuna sea, better arms forces compare to old allies in Malacanang, and we are don't have strong tendency to get closer to China well at least for now...

We will not lean or intimate with communist China, commies had backstabbed our country twice

 

[Chestnut]

Well no one believe their bullshit. Since tsunami 2004, US had show us clearly on how to become a friend in need even when politics is not normalized, thats how true friendship work





We will not lean or intimate with communist China, commies had backstabbed our country twice

Technically they're Fascist, not communist. They're official ideology is "Socialism with Chinese characteristics".

 

[Chaplin009x]

Both US and China are pretty much the same, they only do it in a different way. The reason are also the same, protecting their national interest. When you have power over things it would be a waste if you not make a toy out of it right? Its in human nature China do it in economic way where US do it via UN, IMF, SWIFT (which suppouse to be neutral) and the lists go on for both of them. SCS is a way to protect their national interest in security and economic stand point. They have billions people to feed and tons of energy to keep the economy going, traditional fishing ground is just a lame excuse to create a cover story.

So we should stop try to differentiate lion over tiger. They both can kill us and will eat us when situation permit. Not to mention our neighbor who always lurking for opportunity to protect their national interest and try to take advantage over us. Sipadan ligitan, Timor leste, papua. So yeah lets just point our finger to our selves and pointing on how thru out our MEF we dont see ANY REAL EFFORTS to create integral part of alutsista for all angkatan as ONE. KCR with China CMS? Different radars and combat sensor in most of our fleet? Different trucks for same purpose? All create logistic nightmare as we all know. For me it wont matters if we go all Russiaans/China/US if the way we build our force and ego amongs angkatan isnt change much. We talk sishankamrata where the US marine preparing to downsizing their tank and went to missiles and drones. The future is here, the war will be fighting over economic assasination and missiles rain shower. For some reason(at least in my point of view) we still focusing on conventional war. Perhaps younger generation in our defense should be given more chances to make decission and positions faster? I stop my rant now

nice dude. Australia's defense white paper specifically write Indonesia as a threat. then see what happens, nothing happens. we all want peace. we must be non-bloc. history tells us. about who should be identified as a threat, stakeholders daily meal. Indonesia's participation in world peace is a mandate for the Preamble of the 1945 Constitution of the Republic of Indonesia paragraph 4. Umno kid asking. I have the same question and wondering how? What will you do with mighty china?

 

[kooppyyy]

nice dude. Australia's defense white paper specifically write Indonesia as a threat. then see what happens, nothing happens. we all want peace. we must be non-bloc. history tells us. about who should be identified as a threat, stakeholders daily meal. Indonesia's participation in world peace is a mandate for the Preamble of the 1945 Constitution of the Republic of Indonesia paragraph 4. Umno kid asking. I have the same question and wondering how? What will you do with mighty china?

I dont know which Aus white paper you reading, the one that i read is specifically mentioned the importance on maintaining the good relationship with Indonesia, to limit Chinese influence in the region. The solution is quite obvious, we side with the one that didn't intentionally breach our waters in Natuna

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

nice dude. Australia's defense white paper specifically write Indonesia as a threat. then see what happens, nothing happens. we all want peace. we must be non-bloc. history tells us. about who should be identified as a threat, stakeholders daily meal. Indonesia's participation in world peace is a mandate for the Preamble of the 1945 Constitution of the Republic of Indonesia paragraph 4. Umno kid asking. I have the same question and wondering how? What will you do with mighty china?

Fcuk the non-aligned movement. The chinese threat is real & we better aligned ourselves with the civilized nations of the world.

 

[Chaplin009x]

Fcuk the non-aligned movement. The chinese threat is real & we better aligned ourselves with the civilized nations of the world.

Come on. this is just lip service. don't let the battlefield in Indonesia or in ASEAN. better in taiwan.

 

[Jatosint]

nice dude. Australia's defense white paper specifically write Indonesia as a threat. then see what happens, nothing happens. we all want peace. we must be non-bloc. history tells us. about who should be identified as a threat, stakeholders daily meal. Indonesia's participation in world peace is a mandate for the Preamble of the 1945 Constitution of the Republic of Indonesia paragraph 4. Umno kid asking. I have the same question and wondering how? What will you do with mighty china?

I dont know which Aus white paper you reading, the one that i read is specifically mentioned the importance on maintaining the good relationship with Indonesia, to limit Chinese influence in the region. The solution is quite obvious, we side with the one that didn't intentionally breach our waters in Natuna

Which Australia defense white paper @Chaplin009x ? They even specifically said that they support the modernization of our armed forces

 

[HellFireIndo]

China wants to rebuild the "Middle Kingdom" hegemony over Asia, or even to Africa, where smaller countries would kowtow to "Chinese Emperor" and be tributary states under their influence. We are too big to be even be considered by them to be "tributary", we just cant, fearmongers in our country should realize this, population and GDP too big to be swallowed by their interest, same case with Japan and Australia. But again, being sorrounded by countries willingly to kowtow to China AND US at the same time is not a good situation either, they will use their influence to "contain" bigger countries they cannot subjugate, this already happens with India, being sorrounded by Pakistan, Myanmar and Sri Lanka that already seen extensive Chinese effort to steer their policies according to their agenda. We must be aware of this and strictly put China at bay for "economic cooperation" rather than outright "dependency", and dont even take side with US either, both of our geopolitical situation and mandated stance by constitution is to put balance on the crossroad of the region and yet being neutral at all times in doing so.

 

[Jatosint]

Brochure of (some) Pindad's defense product

 

[Indos]

In my opinion the threat from China for the next 15 years is not in term of military but more economically. Our trade deficit with them is widen, year after year. This is more depressing situation that we should tackle and thats why Jokowi administration put a lot of emphasis on infrastructure, regulation, and birocrate reform. It is to make our economy competitive enough to compete with their economy. The thing that I criticize on Jokowi is only in his relax policy over Chinese investment here who use many Chinese labor instead of our own.

You guys should understand that the reason of USSR collapse is more due to economy reason then military one. As our economy grows, so does state budget and defense budget. Our defense budget is already the highest compared to other spending this year, so I think we have already done what we should have done in term of protecting our nation in relation to our spending policy. To make all the spending more effective though, we need to curb corruption intention on any procurement in our Armed force institution and spend more on our own defense products.

We only have little dispute with them in North Natuna Sea. As long as we are discipline in guarding our territory there, it will be enough for the next 15 years. China still needs to grow so they dont want to get economic sanction from the West if they try to force their nine dash line to our territory using their military might. Any way, that disputed territory is so small and doesnt have any strategic important so I doubt they will use excessive force to us there.

In the long term perspective, there will be some worry of what geopolitics will look like as Western nations economy and military will likely to be inferior to Chinese. So the situation where USA and their ally will pull back from South China Sea in the next 15 years is very possible. As their economy cannot sustain their effort to challenge China in that strategic area anymore. It means only Indonesia, Australia, and Vietnam who can balance their power in South China Sea. Other Asean members will be under Chinese influence as we see some of them have already acted like that now.

What we need to do in the long term is to grow our economy faster and improve our defense industry gradually. We also need to be a nuclear power nation in the next 15-20 years and improve our missile and drone technology as it is very crucial in a modern war. That new nuclear reactor that we are going to build in Serpong inshaAllah is very essential to achieve that goal since it will use modern technology and will be 100 % controlled by state. So I hope government will finance the construction as the design if I am not mistaken has already been finalized by our nuclear institution, Batan, and has got some input from the Russian.

 

[49savage]

There is tendency in some SEA countries to get closer with China, Philippines, Thailand, Myanmar, Laos , Kamboja and even Malaysia, sooner or later they Will fall under China sphere of influence, we have a laverage in SCS conflict since we a have dispute in north Natuna sea, better arms forces compare to old allies in Malacanang, and we are don't have strong tendency to get closer to China well at least for now...

It's not a bad thing to get closer to China. Especially if it's win-win.

In my opinion the threat from China for the next 15 years is not in term of military but more economically. Our trade deficit with them is widen, year after year. This is more depressing situation that we should tackle and thats why Jokowi administration put a lot of emphasis on infrastructure, regulation, and birocrate reform. It is to make our economy competitive enough to compete with their economy. The thing that I criticize on Jokowi is only in his relax policy over Chinese investment here who use many Chinese labor instead of our own.

You guys should understand that the reason of USSR collapse is more due to economy reason then military one. As our economy grows, so does state budget and defense budget. Our defense budget is already the highest compared to other spending this year, so I think we have already done what we should have done in term of protecting our nation in relation to our spending policy. To make all the spending more effective though, we need to curb corruption intention on any procurement in our Armed force institution and spend more on our own defense products.

We only have little dispute with them in North Natuna Sea. As long as we are discipline in guarding our territory there, it will be enough for the next 15 years. China still needs to grow so they dont want to get economic sanction from the West if they try to force their nine dash line to our territory using their military might. Any way, that disputed territory is so small and doesnt have any strategic important so I doubt they will use excessive force to us there.

In the long term perspective, there will be some worry of what geopolitics will look like as Western nations economy and military will likely to be inferior to Chinese. So the situation where USA and their ally will pull back from South China Sea in the next 15 years is very possible. As their economy cannot sustain their effort to challenge China in that strategic area anymore. It means only Indonesia, Australia, and Vietnam who can balance their power in South China Sea. Other Asean members will be under Chinese influence as we see some of them have already acted like that now.

What we need to do in the long term is to grow our economy faster and improve our defense industry gradually. We also need to be a nuclear power nation in the next 15-20 years and improve our missile and drone technology as it is very crucial in a modern war. That new nuclear reactor that we are going to build in Serpong inshaAllah is very essential to achieve that goal since it will use modern technology and will be 100 % controlled by state. So I hope government will finance the construction as the design if I am not mistaken has already been finalized by our nuclear institution, Batan, and has got some input from the Russian.

Nuclear power? I dont see that happening. Aussies not going for it. And besides... Who's your enemy?

Fcuk the non-aligned movement. The chinese threat is real & we better aligned ourselves with the civilized nations of the world.

Before you know it they'll be back colonizing you again. Be careful what you wish for. It's a good thing there's a strong China in the neighborhood.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

China wants to rebuild the "Middle Kingdom" hegemony over Asia, or even to Africa, where smaller countries would kowtow to "Chinese Emperor" and be tributary states under their influence. We are too big to be even be considered by them to be "tributary", we just cant, fearmongers in our country should realize this, population and GDP too big to be swallowed by their interest, same case with Japan and Australia. But again, being sorrounded by countries willingly to kowtow to China AND US at the same time is not a good situation either, they will use their influence to "contain" bigger countries they cannot subjugate, this already happens with India, being sorrounded by Pakistan, Myanmar and Sri Lanka that already seen extensive Chinese effort to steer their policies according to their agenda. We must be aware of this and strictly put China at bay for "economic cooperation" rather than outright "dependency", and dont even take side with US either, both of our geopolitical situation and mandated stance by constitution is to put balance on the crossroad of the region and yet being neutral at all times in doing so.

China's "allies" are a collection of failed state & 3rd world shithole countries. With pakistan being the only that can actually pose a threat. We can take care of China's ally ourselves in ASEAN. It's about time anyway that we show our fang to ASEAN.

 

[initial_d]

It's not a bad thing to get closer to China. Especially if it's win-win.



Nuclear power? I dont see that happening. Aussies not going for it. And besides... Who's your enemy?



Before you know it they'll be back colonizing you again. Be careful what you wish for. It's a good thing there's a strong China in the neighborhood.

the thing is, there's no win win situations with china

 

[san.geuk]

It's not a bad thing to get closer to China. Especially if it's win-win.

Nuclear power? I dont see that happening. Aussies not going for it. And besides... Who's your enemy?

Before you know it they'll be back colonizing you again. Be careful what you wish for. It's a good thing there's a strong China in the neighborhood.

Yes, is not a bad thing to get closer to China it could win-win cooperation, Only IF the PRC are not expansional move in south China sea pushing their own claims, especially try to reach north Natuna sea, we keep on eyes on those countries,


Capable in nuclear power doesnt mean we have an enemy, nuclear power we develop is for electricity, we should have build nuclear reactor if this country don't have much liberals and leftist,

australia wont care about it as long we don't fucked up human right issue or doing stupid things like claiming their Sovereign water,

but yes we have a potential threat like China in north Natuna sea claiming 9 line Dash based on they traditional fishing claim,


The USA colonizing? I don't see they claim other county Sovereign water or try to establish military base in someone reefs banks without permission or harrasing traditional fisherman with their whitehull ships,

I didnt see American do this in the past 100 years, only China did this lately,
Strong China in the neighborhood Will be nice if they don't do stupid thing to their neighbor.

 

[NEKONEKO]

We also need to be a nuclear power nation in the next 15-20 years and improve our missile and drone technology

Nuclear armed country or nuclear powered country?