Indonesia Defence Forum

[mengkom]

Would you mind explaining the composition in our infantry units and the weapon they must carry in accordance to the composition...

Thank you...

typical rifle group in TNI AD:
1 team leader : SS-2 V2 carbine assault rifle with optical sight
1 vice team leader: SS-2 v1 assault rifle with optical sight
1 machine gunner: minimi assault rifle
1 ammo bearer: SS-2 V1 assault rifle with optical sight + additional ammo for minimi
1 grenadier: SS-2 V1 assault rifle with optical sight + M203 underbarrel grenade launcher
5 rifleman: SS-2 V1 assault rifle with optical sight

typically each person carry 210 rounds: 6 magazine in pouch+ 1 magazine in rifle

 

[mandala]

Preparing the Leopard 2RI MBT's 120mm ammunition during the Indonesian Army Combined Exercise in Natuna. Credit to TNI-AD.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BND_w99hZdn/

Just noticed that is the DM11 HE-T ammo the soldier was carrying.

 

[mengkom]

Just noticed that is the DM11 HE-T ammo the soldier was carrying.

Rheinmetall latest 120mm HEAT ammo
DM 11 programmable round for Leopard 2 RI
The A4+ version does not have capability to fire that round

 

[anas_nurhafidz]

Snipers from Kopassus

@oriphotograph

Battleship

 

[Su-35SM3 Flanker-N]

no, the problem is not the length of the rifle
pindad has been offering DMR concept for several years now
but TNI doesn't seem to interested in SS-2 V4 simply because it is using 5.56mm caliber
even though it is advertised as "the rifle that win AASAM" over and over again.. in real world, 5.56 NATO is too anemic for DMR purpose.. not enough effective range

recently Pindad updated its DMR concept with SS-3 in 7.62 NATO caliber
we'll see whether or not TNI interested in adopting DMR concept

Yes of course...SS-3 is even better with its bigger ammo. I'm just being conservative. Everyone in the squad is firing at effective 5,56mm range at around 200-400 meters, so the DMR guy shouldn't have a problem using 5,56mm too.

They can use the same kind of regular ammo, don't have to use the match grade ammo. Controlled and scoped firing with 5.56mm should be quite enough on regular squad level.

 

[mengkom]

Yes of course...SS-3 is even better with its bigger ammo. I'm just being conservative. Everyone in the squad is firing at effective 5,56mm range at around 200-400 meters, so the DMR guy shouldn't have a problem using 5,56mm too.

They can use the same kind of regular ammo, don't have to use the match grade ammo. Controlled and scoped firing with 5.56mm should be quite enough on regular squad level.

i think you got that wrong
the usage of heavy barrel in V4 doesn't give an extra range..it means to give a tighter grouping and better sustainment to high rate of fire
the same thing applied to the usage match grade ammo. It doesn't give an extra range either, it just ensure a uniform flight pattern of the bullet, thus increasing accuracy

so what is the purpose of having a special "DMR guy" if he unable to engage target at longer distance than his team mates?
if the purpose is to give the team ability to deliver more accurate fire in 5.56 range, just issue a low power scope to as many team member as possible
US armed forces did that
most NATO member did that
even TNI already did that

yes, similar concept has been inducted in US marine
they fielded weapon similar to SS-2V4 (IAR M27) to their group, but the purpose is not to fill in the DMR role
rather to give full auto suppressing fire in close range battle, a "SAW gunner assistant" if you will

DMR role is meant to deliver higher accuracy, higher precision fire at longer distance than his team mates. that's why most country issued a bigger caliber rifle to fill in DMR role:
SVD dragunov (russia)
M110 (US army)
HK 417 (germany and france)
the only exception is china..but that's different matter, their 5.8mm is develop to be jack of all trades bullet

 

[samudro_JOY]

26th ASEAN Armies Rifle Meet - AARM 2016

Indonesian Army arrival for AARM 2016 --20 Nov 2016

MANILA, Philippines – Marksmen representing the armies of the 10 ASEAN countries started arriving in the Philippines for the ASEAN Armies Rifle Meet 2016 (AARM 2016) to be held from November 18 to December 7 at Camp O'Donnel in Capas, Tarlac.

The contest will happen alongside the meeting of ASEAN army chiefs, who will themselves engage in a friendly shooting competition.

"The objective of the AARM is to develop and strengthen the relationship among the member armies from its senior military leaders down to their foot soldiers," said Army spokesman Colonel Benjie Hao during the media launch of the marksmanship contest on Tuesday, November 15.

The 10 ASEAN countries are Brunei Darussalam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam.

The Royal Thai Army will be defending its championship title last year. If successful, it will match the 9 titles of the Indonesian Army which currently holds the most number of championship titles since the marksmanship contest started in 1991.

#Rappler
=====================================================================================

KICK OFF | ASEAN Armies Combat Shooting Competition in Capas, Tarlac
November 21, 2016

CAPAS, Tarlac (DWDD) – The ASEAN Armies Rifle Meet (AARM) 2016 kicked off after the joint flag raising ceremony of combat shooting contingents from (10) ASEAN countries at the AARM Grandstand in Camp O’Donnell, Capas, Tarlac at 7:30 a.m., November 21, 2016. The competing contingents are Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore, Vietnam, Brunie, Philippines, Laos, Myanmar, and Cambodia. After the flag raising ceremony, the army shooters started their controlled practice at the machine gun and pistol ranges. This international combat shooting event will culminate on December 7, 2016.

Commanding General Philippine Army Lt. Gen. Eduardo M. Año was the guest of honor and speaker during the ceremony. Gen. Año, was accompanied by the Task Force AARM Commander Brig. Gen.Herminigildo Franciso C. Aquino and members of the Executive Committee. The contingents were led by respective contingent commanders in honoring the flag of the member-state.

The AARM is an annual combat shooting competition of ASEAN armies

dwdd()com.ph/2016/11/21/kick-off-asean-armies-combat-shooting-competition-in-capas-tarlac/
==============================================================================================================

 

[mandala]

Leopard 2RI MBT muddy playground - Natuna. Credit to TNI-AD.

 

[afiq0110]

typical rifle group in TNI AD:
1 team leader : SS-2 V2 carbine assault rifle with optical sight
1 vice team leader: SS-2 v1 assault rifle with optical sight
1 machine gunner: minimi assault rifle
1 ammo bearer: SS-2 V1 assault rifle with optical sight + additional ammo for minimi
1 grenadier: SS-2 V1 assault rifle with optical sight + M203 underbarrel grenade launcher
5 rifleman: SS-2 V1 assault rifle with optical sight

typically each person carry 210 rounds: 6 magazine in pouch+ 1 magazine in rifle

Sir, from your point of view, what is the plus and minus between our infantry compared to the us or the british... If it is comparable of course, concerning we have different topography than the us or the british...

What aspect do we outdated, and in what aspect do we progressing more than other ?...

What changes should the army done to the composition of the infantry units from your point of view ?...

Which nation are we role modelling our infantry composition ?...

I am sorry for the trouble i put you in... But i cant help it... Discussing with you is so much fun...

And what is the DMR ?...

Thank you...

 

[afiq0110]

@mengkom... I meant the composition between our infantry and the us/british

 

[anas_nurhafidz]

26th ASEAN Armies Rifle Meet - AARM 2016

Indonesian Army arrival for AARM 2016 --20 Nov 2016

MANILA, Philippines – Marksmen representing the armies of the 10 ASEAN countries started arriving in the Philippines for the ASEAN Armies Rifle Meet 2016 (AARM 2016) to be held from November 18 to December 7 at Camp O'Donnel in Capas, Tarlac.

The contest will happen alongside the meeting of ASEAN army chiefs, who will themselves engage in a friendly shooting competition.

"The objective of the AARM is to develop and strengthen the relationship among the member armies from its senior military leaders down to their foot soldiers," said Army spokesman Colonel Benjie Hao during the media launch of the marksmanship contest on Tuesday, November 15.

The 10 ASEAN countries are Brunei Darussalam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam.

The Royal Thai Army will be defending its championship title last year. If successful, it will match the 9 titles of the Indonesian Army which currently holds the most number of championship titles since the marksmanship contest started in 1991.

#Rappler
=====================================================================================

KICK OFF | ASEAN Armies Combat Shooting Competition in Capas, Tarlac
November 21, 2016

CAPAS, Tarlac (DWDD) – The ASEAN Armies Rifle Meet (AARM) 2016 kicked off after the joint flag raising ceremony of combat shooting contingents from (10) ASEAN countries at the AARM Grandstand in Camp O’Donnell, Capas, Tarlac at 7:30 a.m., November 21, 2016. The competing contingents are Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore, Vietnam, Brunie, Philippines, Laos, Myanmar, and Cambodia. After the flag raising ceremony, the army shooters started their controlled practice at the machine gun and pistol ranges. This international combat shooting event will culminate on December 7, 2016.

Commanding General Philippine Army Lt. Gen. Eduardo M. Año was the guest of honor and speaker during the ceremony. Gen. Año, was accompanied by the Task Force AARM Commander Brig. Gen.Herminigildo Franciso C. Aquino and members of the Executive Committee. The contingents were led by respective contingent commanders in honoring the flag of the member-state.

The AARM is an annual combat shooting competition of ASEAN armies

dwdd()com.ph/2016/11/21/kick-off-asean-armies-combat-shooting-competition-in-capas-tarlac/
==============================================================================================================

Naik Herky

Thai Army

 

[pr1v4t33r]

@ PT.DI

@ Palindo Marine

@PT.PAL

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Prajurit Yonif 112 Raider Darma Jaya Latihan Pendaratan Pantai

Aceh Besar: Prajurit Yonif 112 Raider Darma Jaya, Kodam Iskandar Muda, melakukan pendaratan saat latihan tempur Pendaratan Kaki Pantai (PKP) di peraian Desa Kajhu, Kabupaten Aceh Besar, Aceh, Selasa (22/11/2016). Latihan tempur pendaratan pantai itu untuk meningkatkan kemampuan tempur anggota Raider dalam menghadapi ancaman musuh dan mengamankan wilayah teritorial NKRI. AFP/CHAIDEER MAHYUDDIN

 

[samudro_JOY]

KRI Banda Aceh (593) at Royal New Zealand Navy 75th Anniversary, Open Ships Day in Auckland

20 November 2016 - Queens Wharf

Royal New Zealand Navy - nznavy75z()co.nz/ship-open-day/

 

[Su-35SM3 Flanker-N]

i think you got that wrong
the usage of heavy barrel in V4 doesn't give an extra range..it means to give a tighter grouping and better sustainment to high rate of fire
the same thing applied to the usage match grade ammo. It doesn't give an extra range either, it just ensure a uniform flight pattern of the bullet, thus increasing accuracy

so what is the purpose of having a special "DMR guy" if he unable to engage target at longer distance than his team mates?
if the purpose is to give the team ability to deliver more accurate fire in 5.56 range, just issue a low power scope to as many team member as possible
US armed forces did that
most NATO member did that
even TNI already did that

yes, similar concept has been inducted in US marine
they fielded weapon similar to SS-2V4 (IAR M27) to their group, but the purpose is not to fill in the DMR role
rather to give full auto suppressing fire in close range battle, a "SAW gunner assistant" if you will

DMR role is meant to deliver higher accuracy, higher precision fire at longer distance than his team mates. that's why most country issued a bigger caliber rifle to fill in DMR role:
SVD dragunov (russia)
M110 (US army)
HK 417 (germany and france)
the only exception is china..but that's different matter, their 5.8mm is develop to be jack of all trades bullet

Longer barrel means that the high pressure gas has more time to propel the projectile inside the barrel. Higher muzzle velocity means slightly longer effective range.

Like what I say previously, a DMR-man with should act like common rifleman. If his fellow soldiers are able to engage the OPFOR with 5.56mm, then the DMR man will also open fire. The more stable projectile trajectory and higher accuracy are primary benefits of longer barrel, while the slightly higher effective range is an added bonus.

If the DMR-man is equipped with SS-3, that's even better. But like what I said, I'm just being conservative, for higher commonality in terms of parts and ammo.