Indonesia Defence Forum

Indos · Jan 1, 2016

madokafc said:
how you can be so sure?

Before you said that we have so many brain drain, and now when some of them have agreed to come back, we dont give them a chance to transfer their knowledge into our youngsters ......?

N 219 is lead by our seniors engineers at PT Dirgantara, and R-80 senior designers are people that has huge experience abroad that come back due to Mr Habibie and Ilham personal approach. And Ilham Habibie himself is their boss at N 2130 project during 1990's.

Before PT Dirgantara has 16.000 people working there, and now just 4000, so adding more engineers should not become too problematic I guess.

Nike · Jan 1, 2016

Indos said:
Before you said that we have so many brain drain, and now when some of them have agreed to come back, we dont give them a chance to transfer their knowledge into our youngsters ......?

N 219 is lead by our seniors engineers at PT Dirgantara, and R-80 senior designers are people that has huge experience abroad that come back due to Mr Habibie and Ilham personal approach. And Ilham Habibie himself is their boss at N 2130 project during 1990's.

Before PT Dirgantara has 16.000 people working there, and now just 4000, so adding more engineers should not become too problematic I guess.

You missing the important point when i am mentioned the last case with Air Force.

to adding more designer will not give you immediate result of the more fluent cash flow (in which badly needed by PT DI right now), instead i am agree about PT DI need more engineer to fulfill and building the capacity of their production line and established more of production line. PT DI is not in hurry to adding one or more products in their portfolio, what they need is adding their capacity to fulfill the order from their customer accordingly right on time.

And Habibie approach is more like, let do more research and building so many prototype but forgetting on how to build a proper Aircraft factory.

Indos · Jan 1, 2016

madokafc said:
with all the fiasco about on how the Air Force reluctant to use PT DI facility for the helicopter project you still believe PT DI still have enough energy to do more project ?

That helicopter project that makes our Air Force get mad is the one ordered during economic crisis, and thats why PT Dirgantara get difficulty to get finance from banks and there is IMF command to cut any funding to PT Dirgantara during that moment in which at that time was still very dependent on government financial backing.

madokafc said:
You missing the important point when i am mentioned the last case with Air Force.

to adding more designer will not give you immediate result of the more fluent cash flow (in which badly needed by PT DI right now), instead i am agree about PT DI need more engineer to fulfill and building the capacity of their production line and established more of production line. PT DI is not in hurry to adding one or more products in their portfolio, what they need is adding their capacity to fulfill the order from their customer accordingly right on time.

And Habibie approach is more like, let do more research and building so many prototype but forgetting on how to build a proper Aircraft factory.

I heard that PT Dirgantara will finish the helicopter soon ( from the director himself ), they are still waiting PT Pindad to finish making the weapon for the ordered Helicopters.

madokafc said:
You missing the important point when i am mentioned the last case with Air Force.

to adding more designer will not give you immediate result of the more fluent cash flow (in which badly needed by PT DI right now),
.

The proposal given by PT Ragio doesnt make PT Dirgantara need to finance the project. The proposal talk about the shares of PT Ragio that will be given to PT Dirgantara and in response PT Dirgantara will be the main production facility of R 80 and employ their designers to collaborate with PT Ragio designers.

Nike · Jan 1, 2016

Indos said:
That helicopter project that makes our Air Force get mad is the one ordered during economic crisis, and thats why PT Dirgantara get difficulty to get finance from banks and there is IMF command to cut any funding to PT Dirgantara during that moment in which at that time was still very dependent on government financial backing.

You know why Government is actually taking the advise from IMF to cut the fund for IPTN? it is because the IPTN is only become the burden for APBN without actual and meaningful result toward economy. Actually if IPTN working as proper Aircraft manufacturer and giving actual benefit toward Indonesia budget, IMF would not give such recommendation. You know why IMF doesn't give a **** toward PT PINDAD, TELKOM, and other high research BUMN? it's because they are not budget black hole like IPTN.

And not all of IPTN employee at the time is Indonesian though, Habibie recruiting so many foreigner to work in IPTN and you will be no surprised if some of them actually joint with Airbus, Pilatus company or Boeing after that.

Indos said:
That helicopter project that makes our Air Force get mad is the one ordered during economic crisis, and thats why PT Dirgantara get difficulty to get finance from banks and there is IMF command to cut any funding to PT Dirgantara during that moment in which at that time was still very dependent on government financial backing.

I heard that PT Dirgantara will finish the helicopter soon ( from the director himself ), they are still waiting PT Pindad to finish making the weapon for the ordered Helicopters.

The proposal given by PT Ragio doesnt make PT Dirgantara need to finance the project. The proposal talk about the shares of PT Ragio that will be given to PT Dirgantara and in response PT Dirgantara will be the main production facility of R 80 and employ their designers to collaborate with PT Ragio designers.

Where is the **** the fund for production facility come from? As i had mentioned above, PT DI is currently lack in capacity of their production line and right now they hand is in full for their grown home project like N-219.

If RAI will give the fund for such expansion it's good, but if RAI only want to utilize the already established PT DI production line, well just eat your horse.

orang biasa · Jan 1, 2016

Repost bilang aja nanti tak hapus

Flanker Parade by Rezza Habibie, on Flickr

Golden Eagle Touchdown by Rezza Habibie, on Flickr

Blue Yellow Golden Eagle by Rezza Habibie, on Flickr

F16 with BOMBS On Final by Rezza Habibie, on Flickr

Indos · Jan 1, 2016

madokafc said:
You know why Government is actually taking the advise from IMF to cut the fund for IPTN? it is because the IPTN is only become the burden for APBN without actual and meaningful result toward economy. Actually if IPTN working as proper Aircraft manufacturer and giving actual benefit toward Indonesia budget, IMF would not give such recommendation. You know why IMF doesn't give a **** toward PT PINDAD, TELKOM, and other high research BUMN? it's because they are not budget black hole like IPTN.

And not all of IPTN employee at the time is Indonesian though, Habibie recruiting so many foreigner to work in IPTN and you will be no surprised if some of them actually joint with Airbus, Pilatus company or Boeing after that.

IMF is an economist, they should understand that the project that has been invested hasnt yet been finished. It is so foolish to understand in which we have spent around 2 billion USD for both N 250 and N 2130 and even has made two prototype and just shut down the project for some economic reasons when the project was about to give their fruits...??

Nope, I believe IMF has "a bad motive," even Stigliz despise IMF decision on Indonesia.

N 250 and N 2130 has a chance to compete with Boeing, Airbus, and ATR in the world market, even we have set up an office at Seatle and ready for FAA license, and PT Pindad, PT PAL, others are not.......

We should not be so foolish as well to believe that All IMF economist just an honest people all of them, and not being spoiled by demand made by Multinationals corporations.

orang biasa · Jan 1, 2016

Golden Eagle Close Up by Rezza Habibie, on Flickr

Flanker Airborne with BOMBS by Rezza Habibie, on Flickr

Airbrake Deployed by Rezza Habibie, on Flickr

Flanker with BOMBS by Rezza Habibie, on Flickr

Flanker Flame Up by Rezza Habibie, on Flickr

Flanker Close Up by Rezza Habibie, on Flickr

AFTERBURNER Fighting Falcon by Rezza Habibie, on Flickr

Golden Eagle Close Up by Rezza Habibie, on Flickr

orang biasa · Jan 1, 2016

Flanker Minutes Before Touchdown by Rezza Habibie, on Flickr

Super Tucano by Rezza Habibie, on Flickr

Nike · Jan 1, 2016

Indos said:
IMF is an economist, they should understand that the project that has been invested hasnt yet been finished. It is so foolish to understand in which we have spent around 2 billion USD for both N 250 and N 2130 and even has made two prototype and just shut down the project for economic reasons...??

Nope, I believe IMF has "a bad motive," even Stigliz despise IMF decision on Indonesia.

N 250 and N 2130 has a chance to compete with Boeing, Airbus, and ATR in the world market, even we have set up an office at Seatle and ready for FAA license, and PT Pindad, PT PAL, others are not.......

Well it always good to blame foreigner for our own incapacity instead of looking on your own mistake

And right now, PT PAL and PINDAD had proved themselves as source of pride and benefit without major hurdles like PT DI has shown us lately.

Indos · Jan 1, 2016

madokafc said:
And not all of IPTN employee at the time is Indonesian though, Habibie recruiting so many foreigner to work in IPTN and you will be no surprised if some of them actually joint with Airbus, Pilatus company or Boeing after that.

They are Technical Assistants, why dont you check other countries program...? Do they also use TA...?

Our current project which is N 219 and N 245 which dont use Technical Assistance at all is actually quite surprising for Asian context.