Indonesia-China Navy To Hold Joint Military Exercise In South China Sea !

[Carlosa]

Shannon Tiezzi, the writer of this article must be an Indonesian collaborator and double agent, to calling Indonesia as de facto leader of South East Asia

@Viet @Reashot Xigwin @nufix @Soryu @Carlosa

I see no problems with your statements. Indonesia has the potential to be a great regional power and maybe the the facto leader of ASEAN, it all depends on Indonesia. Countries have potential and they themselves live up to their potential or destroy their potential by massive corruption, mismanagement, etc. Time will say how far Indonesia goes. Indonesia has such a large population and at the moment, also good economic growth that it could very well indeed achieve it. Frankly, I never considered Indonesia in a very high light because of the massive corruption, etc and the very violent recent past, but there is one thing there now that gives it a very big possible edge and the name of that is JOKOWI.

Shannon Tiezzi, the writer of this article must be an Indonesian collaborator and double agent, to calling Indonesia as de facto leader of South East Asia

@Viet @Reashot Xigwin @nufix @Soryu @Carlosa

@madokafc @Reashot Xigwin I think you guys need to calm down and not be so jumpy and competitive.
You are creating tension where there is no need to have it. Put your energy in some other more worthwhile direction.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

I see no problems with your statements. Indonesia has the potential to be a great regional power and maybe the the facto leader of ASEAN, it all depends on Indonesia. Countries have potential and they themselves live up to their potential or destroy their potential by massive corruption, mismanagement, etc. Time will say how far Indonesia goes. Indonesia has such a large population and at the moment, also good economic growth that it could very well indeed achieve it. Frankly, I never considered Indonesia in a very high light because of the massive corruption, etc and the very violent recent past, but there is one thing there now that gives it a very big possible edge and the name of that is JOKOWI.



@madokafc @Reashot Xigwin I think you guys need to calm down and not be so jumpy and competitive.
You are creating tension where there is no need to have it. Put your energy in some other more worthwhile direction.

When was the last time you see an Indonesia members here competing in a metaphorical "dick measuring" contest with other country here. I can give you an answer its "Seldom." You'll see most of us just minding our own business here. It your countrymen that I don't quite trust in this issue. Like BQ for example.

 

[Viet]

Shannon Tiezzi, the writer of this article must be an Indonesian collaborator and double agent, to calling Indonesia as de facto leader of South East Asia

@Viet @Reashot Xigwin @nufix @Soryu @Carlosa

the writer is an idiot.

the report cites how you interact with china. what has it to do with ASEAN? congrat for late your decision to join AIIB. but has it to have anything to do with vietnam or ASEAN at large? None.

indonesia controls just a tinny portion of the south china sea, how do you want to discuss the sea matter with china? can you stop the chinese if they redeploy the oil rig into our waters? can you do anthing if china invades islands of the philippines? you can Nothing. you have virtually no say. can you stop chinese constructions in paracels and spratlys? I don´t need to answer it.

education is the future: can indonesia lead the bloc? NO, your education sucks (PISA shows it, you rank at the bottom of the list).
No, if anyone is suitable for the job of leader of ASEAN, that is Singapore. they have money, status. you have little money to none to invest in other nations in ASEAN. your status: the chinese begin to like you because you lick their boots. Congrat.

I hope have answered your question.

 

[Carlosa]

When was the last time you see an Indonesia members here competing in a metaphorical "dick measuring" contest with other country here. I can give you an answer its "Seldom." You'll see most of us just minding our own business here. It your countrymen that I don't quite trust in this issue. Like BQ for example.

There are jumpy, competitive and foolishly nationalistic people on both sides. Sometimes is one side that overreacts, sometimes is the other side. I'm not blaming anyone side in particular. In this last one incident, I think it was you guys that quickly jumped the gun and I'm sure on other occasions it was also the other side. Frankly, I had very little interaction with Indonesian members. There is no point to enter into competition games. There are no issues between Indonesia and Vietnam, so no need to start to act like chinese vs vietnamese.

I'm on the Vietnamese side, but just for the sake of accuracy, they are not my actual countrymen, I'm Spanish.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

There are jumpy, competitive and foolishly nationalistic people on both sides. Sometimes is one side that overreacts, sometimes is the other side. I'm not blaming anyone side in particular. In this last one incident, I think it was you guys that quickly jumped the gun and I'm sure on other occasions it was also the other side. Frankly, I had very little interaction with Indonesian members. There is no point to enter into competition games. There are no issues between Indonesia and Vietnam, so no need to start to act like chinese vs vietnamese.

I'm on the Vietnamese side, but just for the sake of accuracy, they are not my actual countrymen, I'm Spanish.

Look up your post. Cause you know deep down I'm right.

 

[Carlosa]

When was the last time you see an Indonesia members here competing in a metaphorical "dick measuring" contest with other country here. I can give you an answer its "Seldom." You'll see most of us just minding our own business here. It your countrymen that I don't quite trust in this issue. Like BQ for example.

The post from madokafc showing off how well china talks to Indonesia and making the pseudo claim of Indonesian leadership in ASEAN is the type of foolishly and unneeded competitive posting that invites angry responses (see Viet's reply to it) and that's how we get into this stupid game of competition. I didn't respond in the way she probably expected, but others do and now we have this back and forth thing going on. Very foolish really !!!

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

The post from madokafc showing off how well china talks to Indonesia and making the pseudo claim of Indonesian leadership in ASEAN is the type of foolishly and unneeded competitive posting that invites angry responses (see Viet's reply to it) and that's how we get into this stupid game of competition. I didn't respond in the way she probably expected, but others do and now we have this back and forth thing going on. Very foolish really !!!

You do know that Indonesia de-facto leadership of ASEAN is "common knowledge" right? As in not pseudo in anyway. Even Obama, Xi Jinping & even Putin! Confirms it. Madoka is just boasting about it. That in it self is not wrong because every members here are boasting their country achievements to another. So why Viet angry when we boast about our country?

 

[Carlosa]

Look up your post. Cause you know deep down I'm right.

Don't take the high road, you guys are not any better and what I've seen in the last 2 or 3 days clearly show me that.
Again, I had very little interaction or exposure to you guys, so I can't comment on more of a historical timeframe here, just what I've seen lately. I just tell you how I see it, If I see it different in the future I'll let you know. I have no agendas here.

You do know that Indonesia de-facto leadership of ASEAN is "common knowledge" right? As in not pseudo in anyway. Even Obama & Xi Jinping confirms it. Madoka is just boasting about it. That in it self is not wrong because every members here are boasting their country achievements to another. So why Viet angry when we boast about our country?

Pseudo claim because her statement was way exaggerated considering what the article said, its much more than boasting, come on, it was really competitive and inviting angry responses.

As I said before, I have no problem with Indonesia becoming a leader in the region, it depends on the merits of Indonesia.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Don't take the high road, you guys are not any better and what I've seen in the last 2 or 3 days clearly show me that.
Again, I had very little interaction or exposure to you guys, so I can't comment on more of a historical timeframe here, just what I've seen lately. I just tell you how I see it, If I see it different in the future I'll let you know. I have no agendas here.

Of course it is suppose to be confrontational, but not offensive in anyway. It's like saying Spain is better than Portugal because, because...

She knows it does not mean to offend people that's why she thinks its okay to do so.

 

[Viet]

You do know that Indonesia de-facto leadership of ASEAN is "common knowledge" right? As in not pseudo in anyway. Even Obama, Xi Jinping & even Putin! Confirms it. Madoka is just boasting about it. That in it self is not wrong because every members here are boasting their country achievements to another. So why Viet angry when we boast about our country?

de-facto leadership of ASEAN?

again, show me your credentials, achievements that you can lead ASEAN? money, economy, investment, education, military, politics, or WHAT? you have virtually nothing to show off. the only thing you are is big and populous. Xi Jinping calls you as leader? should I laugh? Nobody cares of other outsiders of the bloc have said.
If you want lead a bloc, found a new club. there is no such leader role in ASEAN. you are as important as the smallest member: Brunei.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

de-facto leadership of ASEAN?

again, show me your credentials, achievements that you can lead ASEAN? money, economy, investment, education, military, politics, or WHAT? you have virtually nothing to show off. the only thing you are is big and populous. Nobody cares of other outsiders of the bloc have said.
If you want lead a bloc, found a new club. there is no such leader role in ASEAN. you are as important as the smallest member: Brunei.

Oh my GOD are you sure you don't suffer any brain damage? It's the same question all over again. Look..... Just search my earlier post it will answer everything.

 

[Carlosa]

Of course it is suppose to be confrontational, but not offensive in anyway. It's like saying Spain is better than Portugal because, because...

She knows it does not mean to offend people that's why she thinks its okay to do so.

Sorry, but I have serious doubts about that and when you say "I'm better than you" you are definitely being offensive to the other party.

Frankly, if you were Singapore, I could see you saying that you are better than all others in ASEAN, but frankly, there is only one Singapore and all the others in ASEAN are incredibly corrupted, dysfunctional countries in so many ways and that's a fact my friend, Indonesia and Vietnam included. It will take 2 or 3 generations until all these countries become half way decent, developed countries with a society naturally inclined to a true following of decent standards of social behavior and governance. Japan and Singapore were not done in a day, it takes decades (at least) and the process doesn't start until there is an active educational effort from the top to educate people to follow those standards. An educational process that I still don't see any of these countries starting to do so far, so the clock didn't even start yet.

@Viet You live in a highly developed country, Germany, do you agree with me? I'm not trying to be derogatory to ASEAN countries, but that's what I see.

@Nihonjin1051 What's your take? Appreciate your input.

 

[Soryu]

Shannon Tiezzi, the writer of this article must be an Indonesian collaborator and double agent, to calling Indonesia as de facto leader of South East Asia

@Viet @Reashot Xigwin @nufix @Soryu @Carlosa

Is my recognition about that important to you guys !?
I guess not, so don't bother with it like Reashot say.

Indonesian has many potential to be great regional power like Carlosa saying, but that will not made you guys become de facto leader of ASEAN
What's mean ASEAN !? So sure you know it.
What's mean de factor leader !? Depend on your opinion.
Has great potential, and even great regional power, so great compare to other ASEAN member, so it's enough !?

I don't think so, it's about what did you do for ASEAN.
Don't say about how did you "save" Vietnam and Philippine's face in Summit 2012 (one member said it in here, but I don't consider it like that). Everyone know that's small piece and non-matter if China want to go away.
Indonesian role is still not enough to matter things of ASEAN.

Can your leader dare to say something about what China doing in SCS on media !?

 

[Carlosa]

Is my recognition about that's important to you guys !?
I guess not, so don't bother with it like Reashot say.

Indonesian has many potential to be great regional power like Carlosa saying, but that will not made you guys become de facto leader of ASEAN
What's mean ASEAN !? So sure you know it.
What's mean de factor leader !? Depend on your opinion.
Has great potential, and even great regional power, so great compare to other ASEAN member, so it's enough !?

I don't think so, it's about what did you do for ASEAN.
Don't say about how did you "save" Vietnam and Philippine's face in Summit 2012 (one member said it in here). Everyone know that's small piece and non-matter if China want to go away.
Indonesian role is still not enough to matter things of ASEAN.

Can your leader dare to say something about what China doing in SCS on media !?

Correct, Leadership implies actual actions showing that you lead for the sake of the whole group and it also implies getting results.

Indonesia is trying to stay neutral and is trying to mediate, that's nice, but I don't see results from that. I don't see anybody coming to Indonesia to discuss and try to obtain solutions for the whole of ASEAN or for the South China Sea issues..

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Sorry, but I have serious doubts about that and when you say "I'm better than you" you are definitely being offensive to the other party.

Frankly, if you were Singapore, I could see you saying that you are better than all others in ASEAN, but frankly, there is only one Singapore and all the others in ASEAN are incredibly corrupted, dysfunctional countries in so many ways and that's a fact my friend, Indonesia and Vietnam included. It will take 2 or 3 generations until all these countries become half way decent, developed countries with a society naturally inclined to a true following of decent standards of social behavior and governance. Japan and Singapore were not done in a day, it takes decades (at least) and the process doesn't start until there is an active educational effort from the top to educate people to follow those standards.

Indonesia is a leader because we are the country that often ask to "lead." Like to mediate in Thai-Cambodia border dispute. Or the most famous one is when we have to conduct shuttle diplomacy after the Cambodian fiasco of 2011 just to have Code of Conduct. Or the more recent one like now for example:
Joko Widodo says Indonesia ready to mediate in South China Sea disputes: report - Australia Network News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

It was to Jakarta that many looked to put ASEAN back together again after the falling out over the South China Sea, with a code of conduct to be observed by all parties in the dispute being pushed by Indonesia and supported by the US, amongst others. Active Indonesian mediation in the dispute is therefore widely seen as vital, with this conferring new responsibilities on Jakarta. The years ahead then will be ones in which Indonesia may have to quickly grow accustomed to a new international influence and a new role – both as a champion of ASEAN and as a force for moderation and diplomacy in the face of at-times heated disputes.

Heavyweight: The nation’s growing role as an international mediator | Indonesia 2013 | Oxford Business Group

No country in ASEAN even Singapore have such political clout the like of Indonesia.

Correct, Leadership implies actual actions showing that you lead for the sake of the whole group and it also implies getting results.

Indonesia is trying to stay neutral and is trying to mediate, that's nice, but I don't see results from that. I don't see anybody coming to Indonesia to discuss and try to obtain solutions for the whole of ASEAN.

Nice to see that our diplomats hard work are appreciated.