India's Scorpene submarine programme delayed

[sudhir007]

India's Scorpene submarine programme delayed

India's
controversial Scorpene submarine programme was first hit by technical delays, then it faced allegations of kickbacks, and later a CBI probe. Now, it's confirmed that the Rs 18,000 crore defence deal signed in 2005 will not be available to the Indian Navy before 2014.

"We have had delays due to various reasons. I expect the first submarine to be delivered in four years time. That is 2014 - 2015. That's a delay of 2 - 2/12 years. There were certain issues to be addressed with the government and the owner. These issues have now been sorted out and we are placing orders for various equipments," said Retired Vice Admiral H S Malhi, Chairman and MD, Mazgaon Docks Limited.

The impact of the delay could be serious because by 2012 the Indian Navy will be left with only nine of its 16 submarines; the others would be too old to use.

And that's not all. The makers of the Scorpene, the Mazgaon Docks Limited, say the delivery of the first of the six submarines is dependent on when they get the various equipment they are still to order for. If that is delayed then for the Indian Navy and the country, it's going to be a long and tense wait.

 

[Peregrine]

Hi,
may be Pakistani Diplomacy has retaliated heheh BTW what is with French & kick backs?

 

[nomi007]

good news for Pakistan

 

[Justin Joseph]

Hi,
may be Pakistani Diplomacy has retaliated heheh BTW what is with French & kick backs?

They don't know diplomacy. Only US listens to them.

And the case is very old as the news.

 

[Peregrine]

They don't know diplomacy. Only US listens to them.

And the case is very old as the news.

Hi
You forgot China

 

[sancho]

India's Scorpene submarine programme delayed

India's
controversial Scorpene submarine programme was first hit by technical delays, then it faced allegations of kickbacks, and later a CBI probe. Now, it's confirmed that the Rs 18,000 crore defence deal signed in 2005 will not be available to the Indian Navy before 2014.

"We have had delays due to various reasons. I expect the first submarine to be delivered in four years time. That is 2014 - 2015. That's a delay of 2 - 2/12 years. There were certain issues to be addressed with the government and the owner. These issues have now been sorted out and we are placing orders for various equipments," said Retired Vice Admiral H S Malhi, Chairman and MD, Mazgaon Docks Limited.

The impact of the delay could be serious because by 2012 the Indian Navy will be left with only nine of its 16 submarines; the others would be too old to use.

And that's not all. The makers of the Scorpene, the Mazgaon Docks Limited, say the delivery of the first of the six submarines is dependent on when they get the various equipment they are still to order for. If that is delayed then for the Indian Navy and the country, it's going to be a long and tense wait.

Bad news and I wonder why they think we still would be interested in closer ties to them? At least 2,5 years delay, no AIP for the first 3, higher costs and no Brahmos, the chances for France to get the second sub deal are really small at the moment!

 

[DMLA]

Bad news and I wonder why they think we still would be interested in closer ties to them? At least 2,5 years delay, no AIP for the first 3, higher costs and no Brahmos, the chances for France to get the second sub deal are really small at the moment!

The chances of France getting the second sub deal is nil IMO. That's precisely the reason why they are flashing their toys to pakistan. They know very well that we would decide on exercising the 6 optional subs in all likelihood and thus an all french SSK fleet is unlikely. With problems associated with the Amurs, I believe the sensible course of action is to have a homegrown design program in place which could start producing subs from 2018+ to complement scorpenes and hopefully U-214's or a derivative design (with brahmos VLS).

 

[ratnas]

can any one tell me in what way these delays can effect a nation
in the way of upgrades as well as in the race of its generation (kind)

 

[tariqkhan18]

I think India should just forget about Scorpene and order the next generation subs like Merlin, U-214, U-212, etc.

 

[sancho]

The chances of France getting the second sub deal is nil IMO. That's precisely the reason why they are flashing their toys to pakistan. They know very well that we would decide on exercising the 6 optional subs in all likelihood and thus an all french SSK fleet is unlikely. With problems associated with the Amurs, I believe the sensible course of action is to have a homegrown design program in place which could start producing subs from 2018+ to complement scorpenes and hopefully U-214's or a derivative design (with brahmos VLS).

I agree! With all these delays and the least advantages the Scorpenes will really give IN I don't see chances for them too. It hopefully will be German subs, but I guess we will go for Russians because of Brahmos.
Regarding Scorpenes, I still have the theory that IN chose them to integrate the Arihant nuclear propulsion into the first 3, because these subs will have no AIP system and are generally based on French SSNs. The deal with Brazil for Scorpenes is believed to have similar reasons, some normal diesel-electric subs and 1 that could integrate an indigenously build nuclear propulsion.
To me that is the only reason why IN could have gone for Scorpenes, because except of ToT and consultancy of integrating an nuclear propulsion, they can't offer anything that makes these subs favourable over German subs, which are clearly the benchmark at diesel-electric and AIP subs.
The German subs was faster to build, because of commonality to Shishumar class, which could have been upgraded with the same propulsion too and the offer was cheaper than the French offer. If the Scorpene sub don't offer clear advantages to make the costs worth it, there must be something else right?

 

[SSGPA1]

This is pretty normail with any Indian defence project.

 

[DMLA]

I agree! With all these delays and the least advantages the Scorpenes will really give IN I don't see chances for them too. It hopefully will be German subs, but I guess we will go for Russians because of Brahmos.
Regarding Scorpenes, I still have the theory that IN chose them to integrate the Arihant nuclear propulsion into the first 3, because these subs will have no AIP system and are generally based on French SSNs. The deal with Brazil for Scorpenes is believed to have similar reasons, some normal diesel-electric subs and 1 that could integrate an indigenously build nuclear propulsion.
To me that is the only reason why IN could have gone for Scorpenes, because except of ToT and consultancy of integrating an nuclear propulsion, they can't offer anything that makes these subs favourable over German subs, which are clearly the benchmark at diesel-electric and AIP subs.
The German subs was faster to build, because of commonality to Shishumar class, which could have been upgraded with the same propulsion too and the offer was cheaper than the French offer. If the Scorpene sub don't offer clear advantages to make the costs worth it, there must be something else right?

I believe one major reason was the apparent issues with U-214 (including the small customer base) when compared with the scorpenes. I am sure IN did its research before going for scorpenes. I have my doubts about the possible N-propulsion angle. Frankly, the deal wasn't that costly considering it was french !

IMO, IN is looking at 18-24 SSK's and 4-6 SSN's apart from the 3-5 SSBN fleet. Now how they get there is the big question. What I do believe is that IN has impressed upon MOD the need to expedite the process of getting these machines.

wrt U-214, there was a report about the germans getting called up for meetings with brahmos and IN officials on integrating the VLS system on german design. The french and russians have also got such calls. I feel a VLS brahmos equipped U-214 (U-215? ) is a distinct possibility.

 

[navtrek]

good news for Pakistan

hi welcome buddy do say something rather than these one-liners which is there in every thread

 

[faithfulguy]

IMO, IN is looking at 18-24 SSK's and 4-6 SSN's apart from the 3-5 SSBN fleet. Now how they get there is the big question. What I do believe is that IN has impressed upon MOD the need to expedite the process of getting these machines.

wrt U-214, there was a report about the germans getting called up for meetings with brahmos and IN officials on integrating the VLS system on german design. The french and russians have also got such calls. I feel a VLS brahmos equipped U-214 (U-215? ) is a distinct possibility.

Well, German sub are the best. This has been the case since WWI and I have not doubt about the tradition and the technology continues.

As for the number and type of subs in the IN. What is the time frame for India to get that number? 2050?

 

[prototype]

is there any defense project in india which does not have the allegations of kick backs