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India’s Rs 1.2 lakh crore nuclear submarine project closer to realisation

No idea yet. Will update if I find something on it.

Thanks.

I guess pakistan wouldnt make such mistake, oh shit, you dont have a nuclear submarine.

Midget, conventional or nuclear submarine. A hatch is a hatch and need to be closed anyways.

Feb. 27th 2019 showed that Pakistan doesn't need a nuclear submarine against 7× bigger india............8-).............:azn:

Oh comeon.

Do you really thing the incident was as simple as closing a hatch and no other complexities involved and you think such incidents dont happen elsewhere?

Indian media reported so. We have no choice but to "consider" that as true ( because we in our capacity cant verify. Can we?)

This is not a land attack submarine but ship attack submarine. So, the armament will be according to that requirement.

India will use Torpedoes and missiles like Brahmos and Nirbhay variant cruise missile to take out ships

Got it. But for this role a conventional AIP powered Submarine would have made more sense. Nuclear powered or diesel. You will have to surface for Supplies in 3 months anyways. Currently these subs const you Usd 2.8 billion each. For the amount of single submarine you could have constructed atleast 4 submarines. (AIP powered submarines cost between 600-800 million dollars). But then, i am no expert. Maybe IN have something in mind to justify this expense.

What if it was a distraction to hide another submarine which India was making - Aridhaman? INS Aridhaman was being stated as 2nd submarine but suddenly it became Arighat. There is no news of Aridhaman at all. So, there is a chance that India is having more submarine that what it claims

India dont do this. We do. Our weapons weapons, its development, operationability, are kept secret. You guys dont do that, with numbers atleast. So i wont buy this theory.
 
Thanks.



Midget, conventional or nuclear submarine. A hatch is a hatch and need to be closed anyways.



Oh comeon.



Indian media reported so. We have no choice but to "consider" that as true ( because we in our capacity cant verify. Can we?)



Got it. But for this role a conventional AIP powered Submarine would have made more sense. Nuclear powered or diesel. You will have to surface for Supplies in 3 months anyways. Currently these subs const you Usd 2.8 billion each. For the amount of single submarine you could have constructed atleast 4 submarines. (AIP powered submarines cost between 600-800 million dollars). But then, i am no expert. Maybe IN have something in mind to justify this expense.



India dont do this. We do. Our weapons weapons, its development, operationability, are kept secret. You guys dont do that, with numbers atleast. So i wont buy this theory.

I think its 3 weeks not three months.
 
I think its 3 weeks not three months.

For recharging batteries, yes three weeks. Thats the longest an AIP submarine batteries last.. But in case of Nuclear powered they dont have to surface for that and can stay in water as far as their supplies end. Which is upto 3 months.

I can be wrong though.
 
For recharging batteries, yes three weeks. Thats the longest an AIP submarine batteries last.. But in case of Nuclear powered they dont have to surface for that and can stay in water as far as their supplies end. Which is upto 3 months.

I can be wrong though.
No O don't think supplies would last that long. Moreover you have to consider crew fatigue.

I could be wrong too.
 
No O don't think supplies would last that long. Moreover you have to consider crew fatigue.

I could be wrong too.

Fatigue is something else. The Nuclear submarines are "capable" of remaining submerged for as long as 3 months, doesnt mean they alwaya are. Maybe in war time situations only. And war is fatigue so the crew wont mind.


For the supplies.

IMG_20200221_150348.jpg

https://news.yahoo.com/u-navy-submarines-nuclear-powered-230000540.html
 
A number of major Indian media sources reported this incidence. I mean if you hear NY Times saying that USA had its missile arming code set to all 0s for 2 decades and you don't hear a refutation from US government you will believe it, right? I am yet to see a refutation of this by Indian government or navy.
Do you realise that the news could have been planted by the government of India to deceive the enemy? No, NY times was known to peddle fake news. If USA wants to deceive its enemies, it will plant fake news in NYT. By the way, nuclear bombs don't have codes. In fact they are mechanical bombs without any digital interface so that the radiation does not damage it and also because in case the missile is hit with enemy fire, the trigger should not malfunction and cause a premature explosion
 
Ins_S62-1600x900.jpg


India is taking a crucial step for its Rs 1.2 lakh crore project to produce future nuclear-powered submarines, with top levels of the government processing clearances for the detailed design phase.

The plan to build six advanced attack submarines — to be nuclear powered but armed with conventional missiles and torpedoes — is being monitored closely and the first of the boats could roll out in a decade if things go as per plan.

Sources told ET that the initial design phase for the new boats has progressed successfully and more resources will now be deployed to move to the more complex detailed design and construction — to be undertaken by the Directorate of Naval Design (Submarine Design Group) with assistance from the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

sda.jpg


The timing of the critical clearances coincides with the pace of current work at the Ship Building Centre (SBC) in Visakhapatnam, where the Arihant class of nucleararmed submarines are being built. Major structural work on the fourth of the class is nearing completion and the centre would be able to take on work for the next generation of vessels as early as next year, if need be. Though this is unlikely as the developmental phase will take longer.

Sources said the second of the Arihant class — the slightly bigger and better-armed INS Arighat — is expected to be commissioned this year, adding teeth to India’s nuclear deterrence. Two follow-on boats after that are likely to enter service before 2024.

This would leave SBC with adequate space and resources to commence building the next generation of nuclear-attack submarines. While the Arihant project took over two decades to fructify, the next generation submarines are likely to progress at half the given time as adequate experience is now available, both in terms of design and construction of nuclear submarines.

As reported by ET, work on the submarine project gained pace last year with a defence public sector unit working on a special metal alloy for the hull and testing of a scale model as part of the design process. The plan to build six nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSNs) kicked off in 2015 when the NDA government gave a go ahead to a long-pending project for the Indian Navy.

India and Russia have also signed a $3 billion deal to lease an advanced nuclear attack submarine that will be fitted with indigenous communication systems and sensors. This submarine will fill in the gap and will be used for crew training before the indigenous boats are pressed into service.

Nuclear attack submarines — powered by a nuclear reactor but armed with conventional weapons — will give India a significant strike and area denial capability in the region. These vessels can remain underwater for months, making them almost impossible to detect and are a big deterrence for enemy vessels. The US Navy operates over 55 nuclear attack submarines. China has at least 10 in service and is rapidly expanding the fleet, including deployments in the Indian Ocean and several port calls to neighbouring nations.

The project will enter India to a select league of five nations that have such a capability. The last country to enter this club was China in 1974 with its Han class boats. Details are not known but a new, more powerful nuclear reactor is being designed for the programme as well by the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre. The INS Arihant and Chakra (on lease from Russia) are the two nuclear-powered submarines currently in service with the navy.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...loser-to-realisation/articleshow/74234776.cms
Good work India. Hope we will also follow.
 
Got it. But for this role a conventional AIP powered Submarine would have made more sense. Nuclear powered or diesel. You will have to surface for Supplies in 3 months anyways. Currently these subs const you Usd 2.8 billion each. For the amount of single submarine you could have constructed atleast 4 submarines. (AIP powered submarines cost between 600-800 million dollars). But then, i am no expert. Maybe IN have something in mind to justify this expense.
The expense of nuclear submarine is not 2.8 billion USD. These are costs of infrastructure and various other equipments needed for long term strategic use. The cost of nuclear submarine is not really high on its own as the reactor is made by Indian scientists who are permanent employees. Moreover, the cost of labour does not come so high that the cost will be $2.8 billion. The cost of SSN will be about 2 times that of SSK due to larger size but not too expensive.

Secondly, AIP submarines are indeed smaller than SSN but SSN has massive range. AIP submarines have to go slow to conserve its battery when submerged and this reduces operationality. Secondly, AIP can be submergedd only for 14 days and surfaced for another 14 days for a total of a month's voyage whereas SSN can be submerged for 3 months straight. Also, SSN has huge power and space to carry massive amount of ammunition like torpedoes, missiles.

ndia dont do this. We do. Our weapons weapons, its development, operationability, are kept secret. You guys dont do that, with numbers atleast. So i wont buy this theory.
This is not necessarily true. India has suddenly silenced the INS Aridhaman hype and none knows what happened to it. This is most likely because India may be hiding. Submarines are easy to hide as they are under water most of the time and when surfaced, can be concealed as some other submarine of similar class.
 
The expense of nuclear submarine is not 2.8 billion USD. These are costs of infrastructure and various other equipments needed for long term strategic use. The cost of nuclear submarine is not really high on its own as the reactor is made by Indian scientists who are permanent employees. Moreover, the cost of labour does not come so high that the cost will be $2.8 billion. The cost of SSN will be about 2 times that of SSK due to larger size but not too expensive

Well i just converted 1.2 lak crore to USD. That give me 2.8 billion per sub figure but you are right this may include the necessary infrastructure. But, this bring me to a question. Dont your guys already have that? I think these wont be your first locally built nuclear powered submarines, are they?

Secondly, AIP submarines are indeed smaller than SSN but SSN has massive range. AIP submarines have to go slow to conserve its battery when submerged and this reduces operationality. Secondly, AIP can be submergedd only for 14 days and surfaced for another 14 days for a total of a month's voyage whereas SSN can be submerged for 3 months straight. Also, SSN has huge power and space to carry massive amount of ammunition like torpedoes, missiles

You talking about 2010-13 period. Current AIP powered submarines can remain submerged for as long as 21-28 days with a single charge. And i dont know if tgey really rquire 14 plus days to recharge the batteries. Though the size and armament quantity is a more logical reasoning. Ofcourse bigger sub mean lots of missiles.

This is not necessarily true. India has suddenly silenced the INS Aridhaman hype and none knows what happened to it. This is most likely because India may be hiding. Submarines are easy to hide as they are under water most of the time and when surfaced, can be concealed as some other submarine of similar class

Maybe you are right. But the lack of official response from IN give the news strength. Now you can claim anythimg like "the mews maybe planted by IN or its jsut a coverup" but then they are afterall conspirwcy theories. While the Indian media sharing the news link to its own Navy failure is a huge risk and they wont take the risk if its not true.
 
No more Aircraft carriers... IN to invest heavily on Submarines...

I think we need at least one more AC with catapult to be able to truly project power.... Vikramaditya and vikrant are good but ski jump designs.... Off course submarine numbers we need but what I feel we should scrap P75I project and divert money for more homemade nuclear submarines.... SSN, SSBN....

Because these are fast attack SSNs and they are used in targetting SSBNs, Aircraft Carrier Groups and other Naval Ships, So they need good torpedoes and short range missiles. The job of an SSN and SSBN are quite different.

But to target ships we already have deadly Kilos, type 209s, scorpenes.... Arihant class submarines are for nuclear triad.... Aren't K15s nuclear missiles already mounted with K4 under tests?
 
Well i just converted 1.2 lak crore to USD. That give me 2.8 billion per sub figure but you are right this may include the necessary infrastructure. But, this bring me to a question. Dont your guys already have that? I think these wont be your first locally built nuclear powered submarines, are they?
India does not have all the infrastructure needed. India just started getting submarines since 2016 which means the infrastructure has to be created. India does have the technology to make prototypes but infrastructure for mass manufacturing of parts needed in wartime build up, infrastructure to upgrade several ports to be able to repair submarines so that in war the repairs become easy etc require huge funds.

You talking about 2010-13 period. Current AIP powered submarines can remain submerged for as long as 21-28 days with a single charge. And i dont know if tgey really rquire 14 plus days to recharge the batteries. Though the size and armament quantity is a more logical reasoning. Ofcourse bigger sub mean lots of missiles.
AIP technology did not improve in last 30 years. The main AIP technology component is the battery and fuel cell. We can't use lithium battery as lithium battery is unstable in high temperature conditions. We have tp use the common lead acid battery and then use fuel cell which uses oxygen to make energy. Also, the AIP powered submarine is very slow. If it needs endurance of 21 days or more, its speed can't exceed 5knots (8-9kmph). This is a pathetic speed and is very problematic. So, under normal usage of 20kmph speed, the fuel cells last only 2 weeks. Fuel cells can't be recharged as they need liquid oxygen cylinders which are impossible to be replenished in mid-sea.

Maybe you are right. But the lack of official response from IN give the news strength. Now you can claim anythimg like "the mews maybe planted by IN or its jsut a coverup" but then they are afterall conspirwcy theories. While the Indian media sharing the news link to its own Navy failure is a huge risk and they wont take the risk if its not true.
What is conspiracy theory? You are making a big mistake by assuming that whatever the government says is the truth. There is no bigger conspirators than the governments. So, if at all, one must automatically consider official statements in strategic issues as false until strong evidence is provided.
 
What are the expected armament of these six submarines? I know tge article mentioned torpedos and conventional missiles. But which missiles and in what quantity.
Indian nuke subs in general will be armed with K-4, K-5 and K-15 SLBM's for land attack. Both K-4 and K-15 have been successfully tested multiple times and inducted in the IN. K-5 I believe is under final stages of development. Additionally, they would be armed with Varunastra heavy weight torpedos and sub-launched version of the Brahmos for ship attack. Nirbhay sub-sonic CM should also be integrated on a later note

No more Aircraft carriers... IN to invest heavily on Submarines...
It looks like IN desperately wants a 3rd carrier, one each for eastern, western and southern seaboards

Indian Navy will push ahead with plan for 3rd aircraft carrier despite CDS’ reservations
https://theprint.in/defence/indian-navy-will-push-ahead-with-plan-for-3rd-aircraft-carrier-despite-cds-reservations/368930/
 
India does not have all the infrastructure needed. India just started getting submarines since 2016 which means the infrastructure has to be created. India does have the technology to make prototypes but infrastructure for mass manufacturing of parts needed in wartime build up, infrastructure to upgrade several ports to be able to repair submarines so that in war the repairs become easy etc require huge funds

Understandable.

AIP technology did not improve in last 30 years. The main AIP technology component is the battery and fuel cell. We can't use lithium battery as lithium battery is unstable in high temperature conditions. We have tp use the common lead acid battery and then use fuel cell which uses oxygen to make energy. Also, the AIP powered submarine is very slow. If it needs endurance of 21 days or more, its speed can't exceed 5knots (8-9kmph). This is a pathetic speed and is very problematic. So, under normal usage of 20kmph speed, the fuel cells last only 2 weeks. Fuel cells can't be recharged as they need liquid oxygen cylinders which are impossible to be replenished in mid-sea

Tge speed part is right. Too slow when submerged as compare to Nuclear powered. Thats why till now US dont have any non nuclear submarine.

What is conspiracy theory? You are making a big mistake by assuming that whatever the government says is the truth. There is no bigger conspirators than the governments. So, if at all, one must automatically consider official statements in strategic issues as false until strong evidence is provided

I am just saying everything can be considered truth and everything can be termed conspirscy. For example, if your govt saying this is a conspiracy (deliberate false info) by govt then your govt saying "we achieved 6.2% growth is also a conspiracy.". You have to take yhings for its face value. If all Indian media reported this and no response from IN on the news then i am willing to believe its true.

-4, K-5 and K-15 SLBM's for land attack. Both K-4 and K-15 have been successfully tested multiple times and inducted in the IN. K-5 I believe is under final stages of development. Additionally, they would be armed with Varunastra heavy weight torpedos and sub-launched version of the Brahmos for ship attack. Nirbhay sub-sonic CM should also be integrated on a later note

Umderstood. Thanks. So this mean these submarines will have canisters of different sizes (for different type of missiles). Not all types in single sub but 2 types atleast.
 
Umderstood. Thanks. So this mean these submarines will have canisters of different sizes (for different type of missiles). Not all types in single sub but 2 types atleast
Yeah, that is very likely since K-4, K-5 and future K-6 are relatively larger missiles with range exceeding 3k, 5k and 6k kms respectively while K-15's range is 1500km...the sizes would also be relative to their range requiring appropriate canisters to accommodate the same. For now, the plan is to induct K-15 and K-4 on most of the nuke capable platforms
 

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