India’s needs helped power Russian military innovation

[Hephaestus]

And how India returns the favour ? By ordering goods from US and leaving Russia in these troubled times ?

You cozied up to US with begging bowl in hand. We became friendly with USSR/Russia without the bowl.
You aligned with US & Nato. We tacitly supported the soviets.

Cold war is done now.
We are still friendly with Russia. Still purchase hardware from them. Still pay them & dont ask for handouts. We are friendly with the US as well now.

You still ask US for alms. Stab them in the back with the same money. Divert aid to the Army. To top it all off you aren't even friendly with them anymore & they have started refusing to give you guys anymore money. You guys remember what Hillary said a few yrs back when she was in Pakistan. All of you hate US & the west (strange). You wont find anyone hating Russia in India. ½ of your elite have 1 foot firmly planted abroad ready to scoot.

Now you have started to take alms from the Chinese. Then you'll demand more & more. Chinese at some point will say no. You guys will stir up trouble in Xinjiang & then ask for more money from China to help fight the same jihadi scum.
China isnt US & wont show the same patience & benevolence to you.

10-15 yrs down the line I bet you'll be trading insults with the Chinese. Lal Topi's and Madrassa's will call for jihad against China the pork eaters (I love bacon by the way). You'll support the Turkic people against illegal occupation by the Hans. You'll find out how the Hans have changed the demographics in the region.

Talkshows will have guys like Lucman saying "China ke pithu bane baithe hain".

Soon brothers soon. Alhamdulillah History will repeat itself.

 

[Grevion]

exactly
the fact is that it was to be signed a few years earlier
we recently have also witnessed the negotiations of S-400 which Russia linked to T-50
hope you are getting the picture as i do not want to state it word by word and invite trolling flies

India has it own reservations on the stealth and engine tech of PAK FA. Committing huge sum of money on something you're not too sure about would not be a smart move. Hence you will see constant reports about India asking Russia to let Indian test pilots fly the T-50 prototype.

 

[salarsikander]

You cozied up to US with begging bowl in hand. We became friendly with USSR/Russia without the bowl.
You aligned with US & Nato. We tacitly supported the soviets.

Cold war is done now.
We are still friendly with Russia. Still purchase hardware from them. Still pay them & dont ask for handouts. We are friendly with the US as well now.

You still ask US for alms. Stab them in the back with the same money. Divert aid to the Army. To top it all off you aren't even friendly with them anymore & they have started refusing to give you guys anymore money. You guys remember what Hillary said a few yrs back when she was in Pakistan. All of you hate US & the west (strange). You wont find anyone hating Russia in India. ½ of your elite have 1 foot firmly planted abroad ready to scoot.

Now you have started to take alms from the Chinese. Then you'll demand more & more. Chinese at some point will say no. You guys will stir up trouble in Xinjiang & then ask for more money from China to help fight the same jihadi scum.
China isnt US & wont show the same patience & benevolence to you.

10-15 yrs down the line I bet you'll be trading insults with the Chinese. Lal Topi's and Madrassa's will call for jihad against China the pork eaters (I love bacon by the way). You'll support the Turkic people against illegal occupation by the Hans. You'll find out how the Hans have changed the demographics in the region.

Talkshows will have guys like Lucman saying "China ke pithu bane baithe hain".

Soon brothers soon. Alhamdulillah History will repeat itself.

Wow thats too much hatred in one post. Talk about being hateful here.

first of all the money we receive from US is CSF. Secondly How do you divert Aid to military ? Like can you provide the source for that. The aid that is received from US comes in two different sets one is for military one is for civilian purpose you cant interchange both. The military aid that we get, goes back in buying American weapon.

Secondly Again provide the source of us getting Alms from China if you cant I will have you reported to MODS for trolling and disrespecting.

All of you hate US & the west (strange)

Like all 200 mn of us ? did you personally meet with them and asked? wow you are a superman here sire. I dont hate US

 

[ebrahym]

Hence you will see constant reports about India asking Russia to let Indian test pilots fly the T-50 prototype.

oh no
What i have understood is India wants to buy prototypes in final stage and then further developing it as they want which is unacceptable to russians as the China did the same with j-11 to some extent
Right now India do not comes in the matters of development to russia but in financing only
rest we will have to wait for yet

 

[Arsalan]

oh no
What i have understood is India wants to buy prototypes in final stage and then further developing it as they want which is unacceptable to russians as the China did the same with j-11 to some extent
Right now India do not comes in the matters of development to russia but in financing only
rest we will have to wait for yet

Indians want more control and insight into the development of design and systems, Russians are not willing to get them involved at those stages.

 

[ebrahym]

Russians are not willing to get them involved at those stages.

that is a short way of describing this situation

 

[Arsalan]

that is a short way of describing this situation

yup, short and one that wont hurt many

 

[Pulsar]

And how India returns the favour ? By ordering goods from US and leaving Russia in these troubled times ?

We're experts in the balancing act.

Russia remains the largest supplier of military equipment to India. Over the past three years, Russian defense deals with India exceeded 340 billion rupees INR (over $5 billion), with the United States coming in at a close second with 300 billion rupees INR (around $4.4 billion) in deals. Over the last three fiscal years, Russia was also able to claim the majority of signed defense contracts with India.

IAF will purchase 144 of the single-seat fifth generation Russian T-50 (FGFA). To reduce development costs and timelines, the IAF plans to begin induction of the FGFA in 2020 in a contract worth $30 billion (Rs 300,000 crores PKR).

So we're not leaving Russia any time soon.

 

[Grevion]

oh no
What i have understood is India wants to buy prototypes in final stage and then further developing it as they want which is unacceptable to russians as the China did the same with j-11 to some extent
Right now India do not comes in the matters of development to russia but in financing only
rest we will have to wait for yet

It's a bit more complicated then that. PAK FA/FGFA will be developed in four stages.
Stage 1 is the current version you see.
Stage 2 is the new version with improved engine and avionics.
Stage 3 is the FGFA based on stage 2.
Stage 4 is the two seater variant.
You need to follow the PAK FA/FGFA sticky thread for more information.

 

[Hellfire]

you are certainly right
but also given the fact that Americans are carefully penetrating in Indian industry C-130J and F-16s are more than possibility , What US is trying to do is not dominating the Industry but to create enough confusion that the marriage ends.
this has been very difficult for US and is not impossible yet but is close to it.
however T-50 will also be a defining toy in these relations as india is most likely to skip this in favor of its own 5th gen platform which is highly likely to be West centered as the current cooperation of uncle sam goes on and given the fact that US tech is still the daddydom in air
what comes next is naval platforms which are highly dominated by Russia and thus US penetration in Navy is not likely
but jumping to a conclusion is not advised
we must not forget What happened in Turkey
Turkey was largely stable and any such incident was not predicted now US has been naughty there if they get a chance they will be mischievous in India or Pakistan to drive India away from Sino-Russian nexus

You have few valid points. And at a cursory glance, one would not be wrong in reaching a broad conclusion as above.

However, you have to appreciate that the Indian Strategic Thinking, the rudimentary knowledge of it which Indian politicians and bureaucrats have, is latched onto a principle of flexibility and independence of actions while emphasizing close cooperation yet equidistance. That Russia has been a reliable partner and friend and indeed is likely to remain a leading country in the same, can not be denied. While a perceptible shift in Indian stand with respect to US has taken place, one needs to pragmatically take into account the same with respect to the Sino-Pak equation and the unsettled boundary issue with China in the backdrop of inability of Russia to meet certain requirements in a time bound manner due to the inherent nature of dispersal of systems and sub-systems manufacturing across the CIS ( a legacy of the Soviet policy) in backdrop of the conflict with CIS nations and resultant sanctions.

The attempt at balancing can be exemplified by the example as mentioned by me earlier.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Why do you leave them at troubling times ?

LOL u back-stabbed them in Afghan and now suddenly u worried for them?

 

[volatile]

Hi there is another dimension to it that is Russian own interest to use warm waters thru Pakistan .At the moment Both India and Russia has recognized that they can do business with others arch rivals days of 70s and 80s have passed each country is looking for it self ,China and Russia are tied up with economics and Russians needs Chinese similarly Chinese need Russians to divert US attention also China needs Pakistan for India and Russia needs Pak for Trade routes ,those are saying SU35 or any other jet is not coming are missing one important point that is PAF itself ,PAF is still waiting for IAF move for MRCA and local assemblies once it is done we all will see where JEts will be coming

 

[ebrahym]

Stage 3 is the two seater variant.

but did not India gave the order up and ordered 146 single seat variants instead
oh about sticky threads i am not free for a long time i wont have time for PDF in near future

However, you have to appreciate that the Indian Strategic Thinking, the rudimentary knowledge of it which Indian politicians and bureaucrats have, is latched onto a principle of flexibility and independence of actions while emphasizing close cooperation yet equidistance. That Russia has been a reliable partner and friend and indeed is likely to remain a leading country in the same, can not be denied. While a perceptible shift in Indian stand with respect to US has taken place, one needs to pragmatically take into account the same with respect to the Sino-Pak equation and the unsettled boundary issue with China in the backdrop of inability of Russia to meet certain requirements in a time bound manner due to the inherent nature of dispersal of systems and sub-systems manufacturing across the CIS ( a legacy of the Soviet policy) in backdrop of the conflict with CIS nations and resultant sanctions.

The attempt at balancing an be exemplified by the example as mentioned by me earlier

with all due respect
I will not appreciate indian strategic thinking yet
because India has never been in the positions Pakistan survived
you see for Pakistan all the issue of backward economy rises due to economic sanctions of 90s(other factors did not contribute much)
India did not had to fight an existing super power or been on wrong terms with one
we did both (fought soviets and tangled with Americans)
i dont see why people mostly pakistanis call Army paid soldiers
all Pakistani Army ever did was directly in Pakistani interest including war with USSr
but not deviating the thread you have to realize Russian ambitions
they want to create a strong Eurasian bloc and their biggest ally is not India but China
there is a reason why russia lifted their unannounced embargo on Pakistan and are offering minor weapons which were not available for us however i do think that Major weapons acquisition can also be made with russia which will need massive diplomacy involving China but no financial package
now opposing Pakistan in Afghanistan and making US stance stronger is a problem for Pakistan
which creates trouble for CPEC china's ultimate plan
now russia dont give a damn about what happens this far south in Indian ocean but move to pacific now
russia has backed SCS India should remain neutral but is unlikely due to Modi's tough stance policy
India not attending NAM also gives a signal
now what has to be seen is how India manages to cooperate with US without provoking Russia
how India manages to break KSA away from Pakistan(highly unlikely) and keep Iran ally
if they do this well they will be the diplomatic power second only to US
you can never underestimate US they always have some ACE up there slaves
also note that America has been successful or India has been successful you can use whatever you want as it is a matter of perception to keep India neutral If not allied .... a neutrality shook after 1962 and 1971 but realize that it were all of them including Russia who created NSG after smiling budha
in the end all i want to say is interesting changes are ahead and nothing is predictable who would have predicted that a hardcore US ally overnight will sit in Russian lap .. and US is master of these tricks...... now a misadventure with china including US can change things and things are cooking that way

 

[MilSpec]

And how India returns the favour ? By ordering goods from US and leaving Russia in these troubled times ?

Your lack of on the topic quite palling. learn a bit and or else refrain from commenting in issue you have no clue about rather than making a fool out of yourself.

 

[salarsikander]

Your lack of on the topic quite palling. learn a bit and or else refrain from commenting in issue you have no clue about rather than making a fool out of yourself.

calm down. We all here to learn.