India's Modi backs down on farm reforms in surprise victory for protesters

[Taimoor Khan]

Indian farmers in no mood to forgive despite Modi's U-turn on reforms - World - DAWN.COM

Indian farmers in no mood to forgive despite Modi's U-turn on reforms

 

[letsrock]

This is a mistake.
If a country wants to industrialize, it must carry out agricultural reform and transfer a large number of labor force from agriculture to industry.
Modi's agricultural reform is not wrong, he just lacks the courage to face the interference of vested interest groups and foreign political forces.
In the future, if Indian politicians want to reform, please ask yourself three questions first:
1. Do you dare to break the existing social structure of India?
2. Are you afraid of losing votes?
3. If your party loses its position as the ruling party, how can you ensure that your reform continues to be implemented?
Let me conclude by saying: if India's existing social system cannot be destroyed, all reforms will fail, no matter who becomes prime minister.


BTW: If there was no enclosure movement in Britain in the 15th century, Britain could not take the lead in industrialization.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure

No - india doesnt have the necessary social reform to carry forward agri reforms. Farming in india is not a profession but a caste where they were forced to carry out (even now) because other more lucrative options have been shut to them. Social reforms must precede agri reforms and india was never designed to give a voice to people. it is an empire put in place by british and transferred to brahmins.

 

[newb3e]

56 inch ka L supreme leader keh pichwaray may day dia!

 

[Dalit]

RSS rats are rattled. This is another Afghanistan in such a short time.

Notice how all the so-called Pakistani patriots are invisible in such topics. Always ready to suck Arab boots. Ready to criticise Pakistan. Nowhere to be found when the real enemy is hurt. You will never ever find these rats in such topics because their primary goal is to hate Pakistan.

 

[MH.Yang]

You were not even around to remember your own country's history; communal farms were a disaster - this was another attempt grab lands. Zhao Ziyang (bless him) was a great visionary; he allowed free market and that led to prosperity in the agriculture sector; now you want to move entire labour force from farming to sweatshops.

Do you even know the pride we farmers take in our work. I guess not.

You are right. CCP's land reform is to seize the land of landlords and distribute the land use right equally to all farmers.
But the CCP's land reform began in December 1928 and the people's commune system began to be implemented in 1958. CCP did not recognize private ownership of land from the first day of the founding of the party, and one of its purposes was to eliminate all landlords.
Until today, all PRC Land still belongs to the state, and the right to use it belongs to the rural farmers' collective. Every 30 years, the farmers' collective distributes the land equally to each farmer according to the population.
If you think China's land reform is violent and cruel, yes, we have destroyed all landlords violently and cruelly.
So now we can easily implement any agricultural reform and implement modern agricultural technology. We can easily destroy old villages and transfer the farmers of the whole village to new villages.
The result of China's land reform is that India has 160 million hectares of cultivated land and China has only 1.2 hectares of cultivated land, but China's grain output is 670 million tons and India's grain output is 320 million tons. There are only 300 million farmers in China and 1 billion in India.


BTW: KMT fled to Taiwan after being defeated by CCP, and then KMT Taiwan implemented the same land reform as CCP in 1950s, which is also an important reason for the rapid development of Taiwan's economy. However, in Taiwan's land reform, the landlords who be seized the land established the Democratic Progressive Party. Now they overthrew KMT and become the ruling party.
South Korea also achieved land reform in the 1950s. They forcibly purchased the land resources of landlords at a low price. This is also an important reason for the rapid economic development of South Korea in the 1960s.

 

[Realtalk108]

Dear leader has been so completely c*ked it's not even funny anymore.

IT cell on suicide watch. Whole day r*dirona on SM.

 

[Bilal9]

Dear leader has been so completely c*ked it's not even funny anymore.

IT cell on suicide watch. Whole day r*dirona on SM.

Centre to roll back 3 farm laws, PM Modi urges protesting farmers to go home

Modi crying Uncle.....Wishing for "Nayee Shuruwat".....

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

[mmr]

There are reports thousands of sikh were honking in surrey BC last night lol.

 

[Ali_Baba]

This is a Surgical Strike by the Punjabi's of India against the RSS / BJP State .....

 

[Solidify]

 

[Drizzt]

You are right. CCP's land reform is to seize the land of landlords and distribute the land use right equally to all farmers.
But the CCP's land reform began in December 1928 and the people's commune system began to be implemented in 1958. CCP did not recognize private ownership of land from the first day of the founding of the party, and one of its purposes was to eliminate all landlords.
Until today, all PRC Land still belongs to the state, and the right to use it belongs to the rural farmers' collective. Every 30 years, the farmers' collective distributes the land equally to each farmer according to the population.
If you think China's land reform is violent and cruel, yes, we have destroyed all landlords violently and cruelly.
So now we can easily implement any agricultural reform and implement modern agricultural technology. We can easily destroy old villages and transfer the farmers of the whole village to new villages.
The result of China's land reform is that India has 160 million hectares of cultivated land and China has only 1.2 hectares of cultivated land, but China's grain output is 670 million tons and India's grain output is 320 million tons. There are only 300 million farmers in China and 1 billion in India.


BTW: KMT fled to Taiwan after being defeated by CCP, and then KMT Taiwan implemented the same land reform as CCP in 1950s, which is also an important reason for the rapid development of Taiwan's economy. However, in Taiwan's land reform, the landlords who be seized the land established the Democratic Progressive Party. Now they overthrew KMT and become the ruling party.
South Korea also achieved land reform in the 1950s. They forcibly purchased the land resources of landlords at a low price. This is also an important reason for the rapid economic development of South Korea in the 1960s.


View attachment 794823
View attachment 794824

Most of the land in India belongs to upper caste landlords. 70% of India is lower caste OBC SC ST, who are mostly agricultural labourers, or labour in upper caste businesses in the city. Our people have meagre or no land ownership, subsistence farmers mostly. We lower caste have almost no representation in administrative decision making, no representation in higher judiciary, no representation in media, no large business ownership. Only localized political power.

Normally, in this situation, there would be revolt. But, our people are too weak and depressed, for 3000 years under Hindu caste system. Most people don't even realize the situation there are in.

All bad blood between India and China is due to upper castes schemes, Nehru of 1962 war is a upper caste Brahmin, his party Congress which won in first election in 1952 was composed of 50% upper caste Brahmins. Communist and Confucius ideas were spreading through masses in India after independence, you can find lots supporters Mao among lower caste populations. Fearing a revolt due to spread of communist ideas, upper castes started war with China, forward policy. After the war communists were portrayed in bad light by upper caste media, and targeted as Chinese supporters.

India's foreign policy and relationships with its neighbors is nothing but reflection of mindset and character of upper castes in decision and policy making.

It is not just communism, upper castes also target other ideologies which are based on equality. They also target Islam and Christianity, for the same reason. Uppercaste fear that spread of Islam and Christianity among lower castes will lead to revolt. Upper castes also enacted Anti-conversion laws, one has to take permission from a government official(upper caste) before conversion
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comment/anti-conversion-laws-violate-right-to-equality-307214
Uppercastes instigated by Brahmins also burned and killed a Australian missionary and his two sons, due to their fear of conversion. https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/...sons-in-orissa-shocks-india-780092-1999-02-08

Anyway China can help our people would be greatly appreciated and never forgotten. If we ever get power in India, we will open up all ports, for China. And China will never have to worry about Malacca Straits or south-west border.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Most of the land in India belongs to upper caste landlords. 70% of India is lower caste OBC SC ST, who are mostly agricultural labourers, or labour in upper caste businesses in the city. Our people have meagre or no land ownership, subsistence farmers mostly. We lower caste have almost no representation in administrative decision making, no representation in higher judiciary, no representation in media, no large business ownership. Only localized political power.

Normally, in this situation, there would be revolt. But, our people are too weak and depressed, for 3000 years under Hindu caste system. Most people don't even realize the situation there are in.

All bad blood between India and China is due to upper castes schemes, Nehru of 1962 war is a upper caste Brahmin, his party Congress which won in first election in 1952 was composed of 50% upper caste Brahmins. Communist and Confucius ideas were spreading through masses in India after independence, you can find lots supporters Mao among lower caste populations. Fearing a revolt due to spread of communist ideas, upper castes started war with China, forward policy. After the war communists were portrayed in bad light by upper caste media, and targeted as Chinese supporters.

India's foreign policy and relationships with its neighbors is nothing but reflection of mindset and character of upper castes in decision and policy making.

It is not just communism, upper castes also target other ideologies which are based on equality. They also target Islam and Christianity, for the same reason. Uppercaste fear that spread of Islam and Christianity among lower castes will lead to revolt. Upper castes also enacted Anti-conversion laws, one has to take permission from a government official(upper caste) before conversion
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comment/anti-conversion-laws-violate-right-to-equality-307214
Uppercastes instigated by Brahmins also burned and killed a Australian missionary and his two sons, due to their fear of conversion. https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/...sons-in-orissa-shocks-india-780092-1999-02-08

Anyway China can help our people would be greatly appreciated and never forgotten. If we ever get power in India, we will open up all ports, for China. And China will never have to worry about Malacca Straits or south-west border.

Desh drohi

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Is he going to go play with his peacocks again now?

 

[serenity]

It is known by those who can understand it that India is increasingly becoming two Indias. The second India barely has a voice. China was the same until the second China or the communist won the civil war and the nationalists retreated to Taiwan and fortified it with American force and support.

The remaining side had many elements that were entirely anti-communist in fact the majority of people. But the problem for people was poverty first before politics and since the Communist Party turned things around with reforms and progress, the people who hated them increasingly became supporting to now where actual real Chinese people living, working in China (so basically not random overseas Chinese or Taiwanese) support the CCP even to the point of CCP reducing individual freedoms. In return for the price of some individual freedoms they get more social stability and progress and at least 70% of Chinese people are in support of or totally neutral to it compared to history where the CCP gained all the ground from two pockets of control to the entire mainland.

It is only by going through the journey with all things in balance with price to pay for every step gained that China reaches where it is otherwise it was in a worse state than India when the colonialists and last emperors left it.

India here does seem like it has a catch 22 assuming previous proposed reforms for farming ends up even benefiting the country in the future.

The second India will struggle to find the voice. This struggle Mao referred to as revolutionary war basically is what it is. Mao's own farming reforms from original state was disastrous so not all reforms are necessarily done well but this did at least make the path for the next reforms that corrected things. These issues are a matter of science and logical rational thinking so there is the better predictability and better paths to take vs non planning or arbitrary rules designed to benefit one person or a class of individuals. With India they have not yet reached the rational planning stage despite the talk of democracy works well for these sort of things. The truth is democracy has always been a game of money and capital.

China is lucky in that Mao was simply a ideologist and his successors and the ones by his side during the revolution were incredibly wise and as non corrupt as can realistically be expected. Reforms of Mao's poor policies were a gift. Back then it was about making money and creating capital. Now it is controlling capital before it gains more political power than the People's Congress. How we apply and use capital is important. Let the leash too lose and this class swallows everything whole, corrupted by outside or nefarious influence that are contrary to the objectives of completing development of the country.

 

[letsrock]

It is known by those who can understand it that India is increasingly becoming two Indias. The second India barely has a voice. China was the same until the second China or the communist won the civil war and the nationalists retreated to Taiwan and fortified it with American force and support.

The remaining side had many elements that were entirely anti-communist in fact the majority of people. But the problem for people was poverty first before politics and since the Communist Party turned things around with reforms and progress, the people who hated them increasingly became supporting to now where actual real Chinese people living, working in China (so basically not random overseas Chinese or Taiwanese) support the CCP even to the point of CCP reducing individual freedoms. In return for the price of some individual freedoms they get more social stability and progress and at least 70% of Chinese people are in support of or totally neutral to it compared to history where the CCP gained all the ground from two pockets of control to the entire mainland.

It is only by going through the journey with all things in balance with price to pay for every step gained that China reaches where it is otherwise it was in a worse state than India when the colonialists and last emperors left it.

India here does seem like it has a catch 22 assuming previous proposed reforms for farming ends up even benefiting the country in the future.

The second India will struggle to find the voice. This struggle Mao referred to as revolutionary war basically is what it is. Mao's own farming reforms from original state was disastrous so not all reforms are necessarily done well but this did at least make the path for the next reforms that corrected things. These issues are a matter of science and logical rational thinking so there is the better predictability and better paths to take vs non planning or arbitrary rules designed to benefit one person or a class of individuals. With India they have not yet reached the rational planning stage despite the talk of democracy works well for these sort of things. The truth is democracy has always been a game of money and capital.

China is lucky in that Mao was simply a ideologist and his successors and the ones by his side during the revolution were incredibly wise and as non corrupt as can realistically be expected. Reforms of Mao's poor policies were a gift. Back then it was about making money and creating capital. Now it is controlling capital before it gains more political power than the People's Congress. How we apply and use capital is important. Let the leash too lose and this class swallows everything whole, corrupted by outside or nefarious influence that are contrary to the objectives of completing development of the country.

brilliant Post. Agri reforms in Asia gave the foundation for countries like Korea and China to succeed. Japan had its own Meiji reforms a century earlier.

In any primitive society - vast majority tend to be in agriculture. And have accumulated several feudal/hierarchical practices. The best way to modernize a society is to flatten out these hierarchies in agriculture and let everyone get a chance to develop on their hard work. And once they do - they generate capital out of agri surpluses and also free people through higher efficiencies which can be deployed to develop industry.