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India's 'Beijing Killer' Missile test successful.

Agniapproved295.jpg


Agni 5 canister ?
 
gslv mk3 said:
Even you??And who are you? Superpower in BM tech??
Click to expand...

Now we are normal peoples.......we don't think ourselves superpower and remain happy in this and live in the heaven of fools........we just think what we are....:omghaha:
 
DRDO ( DRTROLL ) pay attention! The following is much more realistic and honest evaluation of Agni 5, from a Chinese in a Chinese military forum:


(Google translated, with some tiny grammar corrections by me)




" The entire series of all 5 series of Agni missile test-fired up to now do not add up to 20 times in the entire history. Any one serie of numerous Dongfeng missile tests is more than what all Agni series are combined. Agni missiles, if they were made of other countries, they can not simply suited for the purpose of production.

In fact, India's missile addressed only the issue of "have” or “have not” , the question of “good or bad”, however, is completely out of the question. The combat readiness of Agni series ( 1, 2, 3, 4, 5) is entirely symbolic. And I can responsibly say that the sophitication level of India's missiles not only can not be mentioed with China’s in one breath, they are even inferior to Pakistan , Iran, and North Korea’s.

Agni missile currently has five models, but a total of two series. i.e. Agni 1, 2 and 4 is a series, The planned Agni 6 also belongs to this series. The technical source for them is SLV3 rocket . Agni 3 and 5 is the other series. The technical source for them is PSLV launch vehicle . We can clearly see that India's missiles in general are not like other countries which belong to military-to-civilian conversion. India’s missiles are of civilian-to-military conversion. This is not surprising , since India's rocket technology is the introduction of foreign civilian missile technology, rather than develop their own technology ( either solid fueled or liquid one ) .


Civilian rockets and ballistic missiles for military purpose are different. This difference brings heavy deficiencies to Indian missiles.
Obviously, Agni 1, 2, 4 and 6 are all too long and too thin, while Agni 3 and 5 are too heavy. These are based on civilian rocket prototypes which share some common problems: for the missile , it brings low reliability, poor mobility, and poor delivering ability .




Delivering ability :
Agni missiles delivering abilities are all low, coupled with the problem that its nuclear weight is too large. For the same range missile , Agni emphasis on the heavier weight and weaker power.
For example Agni-3 , and DF 3 , Dongfeng 21A are the same 3000 km or so missiles.
Dongfeng 3 weight 64 tons , capable of delivering 3 million tons level of nuclear warheads .
Dongfeng 21 weight 16 tons , capable of delivering of 700,000 tons -class nuclear warheads.
Agni 3 weight 50 tons , India is currently the largest nuclear warheads tested equivalent 20,000 tons ( 60,000 tons is planned ) .
Keep in mind that the weight of Agni-3 is even heavier than both heavy class DF-31 and Topol M,. Of course, Agni 5 is even heavier than Agni 3 .



Mobility:
If weight is heavy, naturally the maneuvering capability is worse . Agni 3 and 5 are much heavier than the Topol M , so they need a larger TEL ( carriage , verticle , firing three vehicles ) to carry . However, only two countries in the world produce this tonnage TEL - Russia and China ( the United States does not need it) . One can see those TEL on parade in Northe Korean. India can only be jealous, envy and hateful about it. No way China and Russia will sell this kind of TEL to India, So-called" road mobile " uou listen to India media is just a joke . As for Agni 1, 2 and 4 , India’s auto production sophitication level can only make it possible for those to “walk around”for 1 lap or 2 in Indian national parade. Do not expect it though to make it really running on the road. You can compare TELs from Indian missile parades to their Chinese counterparts, you’ll notice that a lot of things are missing. Indian TEL is simply not a complete TEL.
As for so-called “rail-mobile” Agni, it is only theoretically possible. But seeing Agni 5 launch video , we understand that it is simply not a launch vehicle. It can only be called some kind of “orbital vehicles” only. lol, If that was “rail mobile”, then someone would say that China 's Long March 2F can also be called a " rail mobile” launchers. Haha




Range:
Agni range is arguably the its only bright spot. But we need to know that it’s important not only to fire up the missile , but also to fly down . This is the re-entry issue. When warheads from outer space fly back to the earthe surface , their air speed friction can generate a lot of heat. If not handled properly, missiles will burn their warheads at re-entry. Further range missiles have, more serious the re-entry problem. In general, range up to 3,000 km is a tech hurdle , up to 5,000 km another hurdle, a ridge above 8,000 km another hurdle, etc. Only 3 countries: the United States , Russia, and China have truly solved the world's intercontinental missile warhead reentry problem. France and the United Kingdom have not solved the problem on on their own merit. The US give it to them. Is there a way around this hurdle? Yes, that is the high resistance of the big blunt nose , and let the angle warhead more gradual return to some of the atmosphere , so that warheads in flight in the upper atmosphere of the time a bit longer with fuller deceleration . But the consequences are significant decline in accuracy and the difficulity to be intercepted has declined dramatically. Even so the wearheads may still be burned out. Agni- 5 reentry problem is to the same. The result is that warheads of Agni 5 were burned . Of course, this may not be a failure , perhaps the Indians have no plans to completely verify the Agni 5 reentry problem anyway.

According to reports from India , Agni 5 validated 2000 degrees tempreture reentry problem. But this temperature is the level of medium-range missiles , ICBMs can reach 10,000 degrees . Realistically speaking, India’s reentry warhead technology has not exceeded what 3,000 kilometers millsiles require. If their missiles fly 5,000 kilometers , the burned-doen “warhead” that came down to the surface is probably no more than a scrap iron block.

Of course, calling Agni 5 with a range of only 5000 km , an ICBM, is very boring. Since India's geographical location is not good, hitting the United States needs more than 10,000 km range .

Agni missile 's range is not only unrealistic , but also the potential for increased range being very limited. Agni 5 is actually Agni- 3 with a small added 3rd level , with reduced the weight of the warhead. Tthe total weight increased from 1 to 3 tons ( India provided a large deviation ) , weight increase of about 5% . This missile can fly 5,000 kilometers at best, unlike what the media said that “ it has a range of 10,000km but only claim being 5,000km in order not to make the U.S angry”. In the video of the launch of Agni-3, one can see very slow takeoff acceleration , takeoff thrust to weight ratio of about 1.4 to 1.5. Agni 5 series is even less. That is, the weight of over 50 tons of missiles , a takeoff thrust of only 70 tons, no wonder Agni 5 can not add more weight. It it did, it would have difficulity to take off.

Generally solid missile takeoff thrust-weight ratio is around 2.5 , Dongfeng 21A weighs about 16 tons , a takeoff thrust of more than 40 tons , if the weight gain of up to 20 tons, a takeoff thrust-weight ratio is a lot higher than the Agni 5 . And then DF 21A has 25% of the weight gain , easy to hit more than 8,000 km . Interestingly, there are some rumors online saying that Dongfeng 31 weighs 20 tons, with700 kg warhead and a range of 8,000 km. In fact, according to the tonnage of the Dongfeng 21 " extended range " counted out. But in fact if Dongfeng 31 than weighs 4 more tons than DF 21, no need for larger launching veicle. Dongfeng 31 weighs 40 tons, much lighter than Agni 5. It would easily deliver the same Agni 5 warhead to the twice distance.




Accuracy:
Speaking of accuracy, it’s embarrassing for the Indians. In1980’s “580 mission” to the South Pacific, China launched ICBMs with a range of over 9,000 km , draw the restricted area of about more than 50,000 square kilometers . In 2012 when India launched the Indian Ocean Agni 5 , a range of 5,000 km , it draw the restricted area of 600,000 square kilometers . 11 times larger.

The main factors affecting three errors are guidance level , the system horizontal control, and the external environment interference. In all these three areas India are problematic.

Inertial Navigation is the basis of all the navigation system . However, India is not capable of producing INS . Agni 5 laser inertial navigation is imported from Russia. But this INS is used in medium-range missile Agni 2 and Agni 3 . It is not suitable enough for the long-range missile like Agni 5.

As for System Control, let’s say precision is not Indian tradition.

Let’s talk about Interference with the external environment. As already said , the fire re-entry mode selected shape can reduce warheads and warheads heat generated by friction with the atmosphere , but the price paid is the greatly reduced accuracy. The greater the volume of warheads , the slower reentry is , the longer it flies in the atmosphere aerodynamic, the greater effects is generated random deviation. Of course, in the design and processing level the Indians are an embarrassment , which also achieved a notorious nickname of " Brownian Bomb ".(to borrow Brownian Motion term in Physics)



Reliability:
According to documented records , all five Agni series of missiles fired from the 1989 of total 17 times so far. The most test-fired Agni- 1 has 5 times only. Ballistic missiles in other countries are generally required about 20 times the test before stereotypes for production. Therefore , regardless of how much success rate of fire India has , from the angle of the number of optical tests , all five kinds of Agni missile missile can not even be stereotyped for production purpose in any other major powers. Or rather, the entire Agni series of missiles are in fact not be combat capable. India truly combat missile , Scud is similar to the earlier basic properties of India’s Earth 1 and the Earth 2 ( correct Hindi translation?) missiles with range of only 300 km level . This is why the Earth missile series, although extremely backward, are still strongly depended and empahsized by India .



Why India's missile sophistication level is even inferior to that of Pakistan, Iran and North Korea? These 3 countries have mature and reliable level of 2,000 km range ballistic missiles. Amongst these 3 countries: North Korea has the most mature technology - they started the 1st , and scored a number of Russian technology input; Pakistan has the most advanced technology – it introduced the liquid fuel missile technology from Korea, and Chinese solid fuel missile technology. Dongfeng 11 and Dongfeng 15 from China , though not advanced, are in fact points of envy in eyes of today's India. DF11 and DF15 equivalent technologies ensure Pakistan ahead of India for at least one generation in the up-to 1,000 km level of ballistic missiles. And this advantage has begun to extend to 2,000 km level . Iran also has imported missile technologies from Korea , Russia and China. Among the 3 countries, Iran has the highest level of overall industrial and technical mastery. So it is also the first of these three countries to launch satellites."
 
Speeder 2 said:
Why India's missile sophistication level is even inferior to that of Pakistan, Iran and North Korea? These 3 countries have mature and reliable level of 2,000 km range ballistic missiles. Amongst these 3 countries: North Korea has the most mature technology - they started the 1st , and scored a number of Russian technology input; Pakistan has the most advanced technology – it introduced the liquid fuel missile technology from Korea, and Chinese solid fuel missile technology. Dongfeng 11 and Dongfeng 15 from China , though not advanced, are in fact points of envy in eyes of today's India.
Click to expand...
After all India's boasting about ICBM and shupah-powah, it turns out that Pakistan is still superior to India in ballistic missiles because China gives them high-tech. India is just a clown with a toy rocket that doesn't even have a guidance system. Now they are utterly humiliated again :yay:
 
Speeder 2 said:
DRDO ( DRTROLL ) pay attention! The following is much more realistic and honest evaluation of Agni 5, from a Chinese in a Chinese military forum:


(Google translated, with some tiny grammar corrections by me)




" The entire series of all 5 series of Agni missile test-fired up to now do not add up to 20 times in the entire history. Any one serie of numerous Dongfeng missile tests is more than what all Agni series are combined. Agni missiles, if they were made of other countries, they can not simply suited for the purpose of production.

In fact, India's missile addressed only the issue of "have” or “have not” , the question of “good or bad”, however, is completely out of the question. The combat readiness of Agni series ( 1, 2, 3, 4, 5) is entirely symbolic. And I can responsibly say that the sophitication level of India's missiles not only can not be mentioed with China’s in one breath, they are even inferior to Pakistan , Iran, and North Korea’s.

Agni missile currently has five models, but a total of two series. i.e. Agni 1, 2 and 4 is a series, The planned Agni 6 also belongs to this series. The technical source for them is SLV3 rocket . Agni 3 and 5 is the other series. The technical source for them is PSLV launch vehicle . We can clearly see that India's missiles in general are not like other countries which belong to military-to-civilian conversion. India’s missiles are of civilian-to-military conversion. This is not surprising , since India's rocket technology is the introduction of foreign civilian missile technology, rather than develop their own technology ( either solid fueled or liquid one ) .


Civilian rockets and ballistic missiles for military purpose are different. This difference brings heavy deficiencies to Indian missiles.
Obviously, Agni 1, 2, 4 and 6 are all too long and too thin, while Agni 3 and 5 are too heavy. These are based on civilian rocket prototypes which share some common problems: for the missile , it brings low reliability, poor mobility, and poor delivering ability .




Delivering ability :
Agni missiles delivering abilities are all low, coupled with the problem that its nuclear weight is too large. For the same range missile , Agni emphasis on the heavier weight and weaker power.
For example Agni-3 , and DF 3 , Dongfeng 21A are the same 3000 km or so missiles.
Dongfeng 3 weight 64 tons , capable of delivering 3 million tons level of nuclear warheads .
Dongfeng 21 weight 16 tons , capable of delivering of 700,000 tons -class nuclear warheads.
Agni 3 weight 50 tons , India is currently the largest nuclear warheads tested equivalent 20,000 tons ( 60,000 tons is planned ) .
Keep in mind that the weight of Agni-3 is even heavier than both heavy class DF-31 and Topol M,. Of course, Agni 5 is even heavier than Agni 3 .



Mobility:
If weight is heavy, naturally the maneuvering capability is worse . Agni 3 and 5 are much heavier than the Topol M , so they need a larger TEL ( carriage , verticle , firing three vehicles ) to carry . However, only two countries in the world produce this tonnage TEL - Russia and China ( the United States does not need it) . One can see those TEL on parade in Northe Korean. India can only be jealous, envy and hateful about it. No way China and Russia will sell this kind of TEL to India, So-called" road mobile " uou listen to India media is just a joke . As for Agni 1, 2 and 4 , India’s auto production sophitication level can only make it possible for those to “walk around”for 1 lap or 2 in Indian national parade. Do not expect it though to make it really running on the road. You can compare TELs from Indian missile parades to their Chinese counterparts, you’ll notice that a lot of things are missing. Indian TEL is simply not a complete TEL.
As for so-called “rail-mobile” Agni, it is only theoretically possible. But seeing Agni 5 launch video , we understand that it is simply not a launch vehicle. It can only be called some kind of “orbital vehicles” only. lol, If that was “rail mobile”, then someone would say that China 's Long March 2F can also be called a " rail mobile” launchers. Haha




Range:
Agni range is arguably the its only bright spot. But we need to know that it’s important not only to fire up the missile , but also to fly down . This is the re-entry issue. When warheads from outer space fly back to the earthe surface , their air speed friction can generate a lot of heat. If not handled properly, missiles will burn their warheads at re-entry. Further range missiles have, more serious the re-entry problem. In general, range up to 3,000 km is a tech hurdle , up to 5,000 km another hurdle, a ridge above 8,000 km another hurdle, etc. Only 3 countries: the United States , Russia, and China have truly solved the world's intercontinental missile warhead reentry problem. France and the United Kingdom have not solved the problem on on their own merit. The US give it to them. Is there a way around this hurdle? Yes, that is the high resistance of the big blunt nose , and let the angle warhead more gradual return to some of the atmosphere , so that warheads in flight in the upper atmosphere of the time a bit longer with fuller deceleration . But the consequences are significant decline in accuracy and the difficulity to be intercepted has declined dramatically. Even so the wearheads may still be burned out. Agni- 5 reentry problem is to the same. The result is that warheads of Agni 5 were burned . Of course, this may not be a failure , perhaps the Indians have no plans to completely verify the Agni 5 reentry problem anyway.

According to reports from India , Agni 5 validated 2000 degrees tempreture reentry problem. But this temperature is the level of medium-range missiles , ICBMs can reach 10,000 degrees . Realistically speaking, India’s reentry warhead technology has not exceeded what 3,000 kilometers millsiles require. If their missiles fly 5,000 kilometers , the burned-doen “warhead” that came down to the surface is probably no more than a scrap iron block.

Of course, calling Agni 5 with a range of only 5000 km , an ICBM, is very boring. Since India's geographical location is not good, hitting the United States needs more than 10,000 km range .

Agni missile 's range is not only unrealistic , but also the potential for increased range being very limited. Agni 5 is actually Agni- 3 with a small added 3rd level , with reduced the weight of the warhead. Tthe total weight increased from 1 to 3 tons ( India provided a large deviation ) , weight increase of about 5% . This missile can fly 5,000 kilometers at best, unlike what the media said that “ it has a range of 10,000km but only claim being 5,000km in order not to make the U.S angry”. In the video of the launch of Agni-3, one can see very slow takeoff acceleration , takeoff thrust to weight ratio of about 1.4 to 1.5. Agni 5 series is even less. That is, the weight of over 50 tons of missiles , a takeoff thrust of only 70 tons, no wonder Agni 5 can not add more weight. It it did, it would have difficulity to take off.

Generally solid missile takeoff thrust-weight ratio is around 2.5 , Dongfeng 21A weighs about 16 tons , a takeoff thrust of more than 40 tons , if the weight gain of up to 20 tons, a takeoff thrust-weight ratio is a lot higher than the Agni 5 . And then DF 21A has 25% of the weight gain , easy to hit more than 8,000 km . Interestingly, there are some rumors online saying that Dongfeng 31 weighs 20 tons, with700 kg warhead and a range of 8,000 km. In fact, according to the tonnage of the Dongfeng 21 " extended range " counted out. But in fact if Dongfeng 31 than weighs 4 more tons than DF 21, no need for larger launching veicle. Dongfeng 31 weighs 40 tons, much lighter than Agni 5. It would easily deliver the same Agni 5 warhead to the twice distance.




Accuracy:
Speaking of accuracy, it’s embarrassing for the Indians. In1980’s “580 mission” to the South Pacific, China launched ICBMs with a range of over 9,000 km , draw the restricted area of about more than 50,000 square kilometers . In 2012 when India launched the Indian Ocean Agni 5 , a range of 5,000 km , it draw the restricted area of 600,000 square kilometers . 11 times larger.

The main factors affecting three errors are guidance level , the system horizontal control, and the external environment interference. In all these three areas India are problematic.

Inertial Navigation is the basis of all the navigation system . However, India is not capable of producing INS . Agni 5 laser inertial navigation is imported from Russia. But this INS is used in medium-range missile Agni 2 and Agni 3 . It is not suitable enough for the long-range missile like Agni 5.

As for System Control, let’s say precision is not Indian tradition.

Let’s talk about Interference with the external environment. As already said , the fire re-entry mode selected shape can reduce warheads and warheads heat generated by friction with the atmosphere , but the price paid is the greatly reduced accuracy. The greater the volume of warheads , the slower reentry is , the longer it flies in the atmosphere aerodynamic, the greater effects is generated random deviation. Of course, in the design and processing level the Indians are an embarrassment , which also achieved a notorious nickname of " Brownian Bomb ".(to borrow Brownian Motion term in Physics)



Reliability:
According to documented records , all five Agni series of missiles fired from the 1989 of total 17 times so far. The most test-fired Agni- 1 has 5 times only. Ballistic missiles in other countries are generally required about 20 times the test before stereotypes for production. Therefore , regardless of how much success rate of fire India has , from the angle of the number of optical tests , all five kinds of Agni missile missile can not even be stereotyped for production purpose in any other major powers. Or rather, the entire Agni series of missiles are in fact not be combat capable. India truly combat missile , Scud is similar to the earlier basic properties of India’s Earth 1 and the Earth 2 ( correct Hindi translation?) missiles with range of only 300 km level . This is why the Earth missile series, although extremely backward, are still strongly depended and empahsized by India .



Why India's missile sophistication level is even inferior to that of Pakistan, Iran and North Korea? These 3 countries have mature and reliable level of 2,000 km range ballistic missiles. Amongst these 3 countries: North Korea has the most mature technology - they started the 1st , and scored a number of Russian technology input; Pakistan has the most advanced technology – it introduced the liquid fuel missile technology from Korea, and Chinese solid fuel missile technology. Dongfeng 11 and Dongfeng 15 from China , though not advanced, are in fact points of envy in eyes of today's India. DF11 and DF15 equivalent technologies ensure Pakistan ahead of India for at least one generation in the up-to 1,000 km level of ballistic missiles. And this advantage has begun to extend to 2,000 km level . Iran also has imported missile technologies from Korea , Russia and China. Among the 3 countries, Iran has the highest level of overall industrial and technical mastery. So it is also the first of these three countries to launch satellites."
Click to expand...



Truth is that Chinese missile programme has thrived on beg , borrow , steal tactics ....

India has achieved current milestone at its own accord unlike China which was virtually spoonfed by soviet Russia .

Soviet Russia supplied all the crucial help to establish missile industry facility in China .
Designs and samples of R-2, R-5 as well as first ever SLBM such as R -11 FM were given to China in 1960 .

Chinese espionage activities enable to advance subsequent missile programme further .

China in its initial phase benefited from Soviet assistance on which it turned its back and its Anti Soviet stance help it get closer to US which waived off several dual purpose technology items which China greedily acquired .

The fact that Agni V has given India necessary strategic depth to neutralize China is undeniable .

The CEP of Agni missiles is best of its kind in world !

You want us to believe CCP brain washed Chinese military analysts allegations to believe ?


Truth is that despite so called Indigenous capability claims China continues to draw upon Soviet technology and continues to plunder military industrial secretes from all around world through its espionage programme .


The fact that we have missile giving capability to strike at any of the China's assets at will with high accuracy is good enough for us . Addition of MIRV and MARV will add further punch to Agni V strike capability !!!


The assertion that Pakistan , North korea and Iran missile programme is superior to India's is a really very good joke !

You should be participating in comedy blogs and not defense blogs because you are really good at comedy .....!!!
 
HongWu said:
After all India's boasting about ICBM and shupah-powah, it turns out that Pakistan is still superior to India in ballistic missiles because China gives them high-tech. India is just a clown with a toy rocket that doesn't even have a guidance system. Now they are utterly humiliated again :yay:
Click to expand...

Pakistans missile technology far ahead of India? :omghaha:

Can you show me a Pakistani,made ICBM/SLBM/Quasi Ballistic missile,Mr.Noodles??
:lol:

And we made the RLG.based INS & The Micro Navigation system...so shoo off..:wave:
 
Speeder 2 said:
Comical DRDO(DRTROLL) can't tell you the following of agni 5 with a straight face:
Click to expand...

Ah,the chinese troll is back again with a truck load of BS.You should have spend a few minutes in Google/your Chinese search engine before spewing this BS

1. where the target system, lasar gyro, comes from? no company in india can produce it
Click to expand...

When did you made this ground breaking discovery..? :woot:


FYI RLG based INS systems,Ring Laser Gyros,Fibre Optic gyros,MEMS based sensors & actuators are developed and produced on a limited scale by Research Centre Imarat,a DRDO lab.

@Fattyacids too,take note

RCI getting ready to patent its technology - Times Of India

And there are production partners from public & private sector,like Semiconductor Complex,Chandigarh which produces MEMS systems,SoCs etc.

2.where the the super hard alloys come from? no company in india can produce them

3.where the the super high temp alloys come from? no company in india can produce them
Click to expand...

Again,whats the source of that BS?We have even developed high perfomance alloys for scramjet engine,and that was ground tested a few years back.Have some common sense.

Here is one company-http://www.midhani.gov.in/suprt.html

4. where the the fuel come from? no company in india can produce them
Click to expand...

You should have at least spend a moment ,to use google search.India have production plants to produce Solid fuel,If you doesnt know,ISRO has a production facility for HTPB in Andhra Pradesh & Even private companies like Reliance are now producing HTPB for India's space/missile program.

And We had ground tested worlds third largest Solid Rocket Booster three years back.From where did we buy fuel for that?From China??:omghaha:

5. where the the anti-high temp materials of the 3rd stage missile shell come from? no company in india can produce them
Click to expand...

Again,did your mother in law give this piece of Info to you?
India has produced its own heat sheilds,using Carbon-Carbon composites for our RVs.Ever heard of India's Space Capsule experiment in which we recovered an orbiting experimental sat at 500 km high LEO?That was done back in 2007.Who made the heat sheild for that?
And we have enough test facilities to test design of our RV designs & Materials-Hypersonic shock tunnels & high enthalpy plasma wind runnels.

Speeder 2 said:
Comical DRDO(DRTROLL) can't tell you the following of agni 5 with a straight face:
Click to expand...

Ah,the chinese troll is back again with a truck load of BS.You should have spend a few minutes in Google/your Chinese search engine before spewing this BS

1. where the target system, lasa
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Now india should have no excuse of shitting its pants when six Chinese foot soldiers cross into mahabharat to rape their shupa powa priced.
 
Thorough Pro said:
Now india should have no excuse of shitting its pants when six Chinese foot soldiers cross into mahabharat to rape their shupa powa priced.
Click to expand...

We have the Agni III operational,you know that?

$hitting your pants,hmmm I know that you guys would do that when you see those things flying around...:omghaha:
 

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