Indians who deny Aryan invasion, please explain this

[Maira La]

North Indian upper castes have about ~15-25% of dna that is similar to ancient DNA from Corded Ware people of Europe.

Lower castes and Dalits either don't have it or have very tiny amount (~1-3%).

Even the Rakhigarhi woman didn't have it (0%). Her aDNA had been analyzed by both Indian and foreign academics.

How do you explain this without some sort of Aryan invasion theory?

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

they probably brought the caste system with them as well.

 

[khanmubashir]

North Indian upper castes have about ~15-25% of dna that is similar to ancient DNA from Corded Ware people of Europe.

Lower castes and Dalits either don't have it or have very tiny amount (~1-3%).

Even the Rakhigarhi woman didn't have it (0%). Her aDNA had been analyzed by both Indian and foreign academics.

How do you explain this without some sort of Aryan invasion theory?

Sanghi logic this shows the dalits were genetically engineered by brahmin to serve em and why brahmin have right to treat em as sub human

 

[Varunastra]

North Indian upper castes have about ~15-25% of dna that is similar to ancient DNA from Corded Ware people of Europe.

Lower castes and Dalits either don't have it or have very tiny amount (~1-3%).

Even the Rakhigarhi woman didn't have it (0%). Her aDNA had been analyzed by both Indian and foreign academics.

How do you explain this without some sort of Aryan invasion theory?

Now that's a really sensitive topic.
Can we call it steppe people migration instead of Aryan invasion? Aryans concept is local to the subcontinent and it is widely believed to be a peaceful migration of people. The steppe component is a very small piece of the Indian puzzle.

 

[Maira La]

Now that's a really sensitive topic.
Can we call it steppe people migration instead of Aryan invasion? Aryans concept is local to the subcontinent and it is widely believed to be a peaceful migration of people. The steppe component is a very small piece of the Indian puzzle.

I don't know why people are so sensitive about the word Aryan. I don't think there is any doubt that early Indo-Iranians used different versions of the word 'Aryan' to refer to themselves.

After Indo-Aryan and Iranian split, each group still continued to call themselves Aryan. The word "Iran" has the same root as the word Aryan. Afghanistan also used to be called "Aryana" (as in the 'land of Aryans') by it's Iranic inhabitants. Neither Iranians nor Eastern Iranics borrowed this self-identifier from Sanskrit or Indo-Aryans.

There are different theories as to why these people called themselves Aryan. One version, which is very likely, is that as Indo-Iranians expanded they faced other people during battles on horseback whereas their opponents fought on their feet. They looked bigger vs. their opponents so they started referring to themselves as "high" which in there early IE language was 'Aryan'.

In Sanskrit 'Aryan' may mean Noble or whatever but you have to realize with time as languages change and evolve, meaning of words change or are used for different purpose. It's completely possible that a word used for literally high (as in higher, bigger) at some point started to be used for 'socially high' (noble etc.).

Getting back to your post, as I said since Indo-Iranian Steppe people referred to themselves as Aryan I don't see any problem with it's use but we can certainly use Steppe instead, it's the same thing but more confusing as Steppe could refer to other IE groups who were not Indo-Iranian.

 

[Varunastra]

I don't know why people are so sensitive about the word Aryan. I don't think there is any doubt that early Indo-Iranians used different versions of the word 'Aryan' to refer to themselves.

After Indo-Aryan and Iranian split, each group still continued to call themselves Aryan. The word "Iran" has the same root as the word Aryan. Afghanistan also used to be called "Aryana" (as in the 'land of Aryans') by it's Iranic inhabitants. Neither Iranians nor Eastern Iranics borrowed this self-identifier from Sanskrit or Indo-Aryans.

There are different theories as to why these people called themselves Aryan. One version, which is very likely, is that as Indo-Iranians expanded they faced other people during battles on horseback whereas their opponents fought on their feet. They looked bigger vs. their opponents so they started referring to themselves as "high" which in there early IE language was 'Aryan'.

In Sanskrit 'Aryan' may mean Noble or whatever but you have to realize with time as languages change and evolve, meaning of words change or are used for different purpose. It's completely possible that a word used for literally high (as in higher, bigger) at some point started to be used for 'socially high' (noble etc.).

Getting back to your post, as I said since Indo-Iranian Steppe people referred to themselves as Aryan I don't see any problem with it's use but we can certainly use Steppe instead, it's the same thing but more confusing as Steppe could refer to other IE groups who were not Indo-Iranian.

Ok get your point but still Aryan concept in India solidified not as a racial elements but a cultural and societal one. India is also known as Aryavarta so even if steppe people came in, anyone with high social status and morals would be known as Arya irrespective of their racial makeup. For the same reasons I feel in the Indian context calling them steppe people or maybe Indo-Iranians instead of Aryans is a better way, and ofcourse migration instead of invasion.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Now that's a really sensitive topic.
Can we call it steppe people migration instead of Aryan invasion?

why call it that when indians call the muslims 'invaders'?

 

[Varunastra]

why call it that when indians call the muslims 'invaders'?

Clash of cultures and knowledge of historical invasions i suppose, no one remembers anything about steppe people coming in and more likely they migrated peacefully, for us they are no different from any Indian in a sense they are us.
Really don't have a pleasing answer for this. People see many muslim sultans as invaders as their invasions are more recent and many are known fact to have been bloody, but the common muslims of India? We know they are our people just converted, so they are not "invaders" just with different beliefs. Many do view the muslim sultans who settled properly in the subcontinent, called our land their home and accepted our culture as Indian though, like most view Akbar, shah jahan as completely Indian through popular view point.

 

[TheSnakeEatingMarkhur]

North Indian upper castes have about ~15-25% of dna that is similar to ancient DNA from Corded Ware people of Europe.

Lower castes and Dalits either don't have it or have very tiny amount (~1-3%).

Even the Rakhigarhi woman didn't have it (0%). Her aDNA had been analyzed by both Indian and foreign academics.

How do you explain this without some sort of Aryan invasion theory?

Brahmans were foreigners to India as per another report.. no wonder Nazis and Brahmans have so much common..

 

[Drizzt]

North Indian upper castes have about ~15-25% of dna that is similar to ancient DNA from Corded Ware people of Europe.

Lower castes and Dalits either don't have it or have very tiny amount (~1-3%).

Even the Rakhigarhi woman didn't have it (0%). Her aDNA had been analyzed by both Indian and foreign academics.

How do you explain this without some sort of Aryan invasion theory?

Aryan Invasion theory is a threat to upper caste position in India, its natural that they would try to discredit it. They would never accept it, no matter how many proofs we show them, its a waste of time. Instead we should think how to spread this information among the majority Native Indian(Lower caste) populations of India. Bangladesh and other neighboring countries can play a vital role, to educate the masses of India, utilizing social media and other sources. I don't think masses of India will ever break chains of psychological servitude, without effort of neighboring countries.

Caste system is a Racist apartheid law enacted with religious sanctity, to oppress the majority native population of India. Rakhigarhi evidence was twisted by (Aryan)upper caste dominated media into a proof against Aryan Invasion theory.

The real reason upper castes hate Islam is because after conversion, Islam transforms a native Indian( lower caste) person into a proud person, who rebels against (Aryan)upper caste.

Read this article for clarity.
https://caravanmagazine.in/religion/how-upper-castes-invented-hindu-majority

We, invite all freethinking people of the world to propagate Islam, Christianity, Communism and other ideologies based on equality, among the native ethnicities(lower caste) of India. Else there is little hope, it will take hundreds of years.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

I don't know why people are so sensitive about the word Aryan. I don't think there is any doubt that early Indo-Iranians used different versions of the word 'Aryan' to refer to themselves.

After Indo-Aryan and Iranian split, each group still continued to call themselves Aryan. The word "Iran" has the same root as the word Aryan. Afghanistan also used to be called "Aryana" (as in the 'land of Aryans') by it's Iranic inhabitants. Neither Iranians nor Eastern Iranics borrowed this self-identifier from Sanskrit or Indo-Aryans.

There are different theories as to why these people called themselves Aryan. One version, which is very likely, is that as Indo-Iranians expanded they faced other people during battles on horseback whereas their opponents fought on their feet. They looked bigger vs. their opponents so they started referring to themselves as "high" which in there early IE language was 'Aryan'.

In Sanskrit 'Aryan' may mean Noble or whatever but you have to realize with time as languages change and evolve, meaning of words change or are used for different purpose. It's completely possible that a word used for literally high (as in higher, bigger) at some point started to be used for 'socially high' (noble etc.).

Getting back to your post, as I said since Indo-Iranian Steppe people referred to themselves as Aryan I don't see any problem with it's use but we can certainly use Steppe instead, it's the same thing but more confusing as Steppe could refer to other IE groups who were not Indo-Iranian.

Iranians were called Gandharvas. That is enough to dispute your other arguments. Aryan did not mean a set of people. There was never a reference to calling a set of people as Aryans, unlike the words "Nara", "Gandharva", "Yaksha" etc

 

[Maira La]

Iranians were called Gandharvas. That is enough to dispute your other arguments. Aryan did not mean a set of people. There was never a reference to calling a set of people as Aryans, unlike the words "Nara", "Gandharva", "Yaksha" etc

I have no idea what you're saying.

What exactly is the argument? Who called Iranians Gandharvas? Iranians or someone else? And why does that matter more than what Iranians call their own nation (Iran ~ Eyran ~ Aryan)? And why is it enough to dispute my argument? Which one of my arguments are you disputing? What about the DNA argument in the OP? There was never a reference to "Aryan" where?

At least put some effort into creating an argument.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Iranians were called Gandharvas.

Where did you pull this one? @Maira La already pointed out about root of Iran and Aryana.

Aryan Invasion theory is a threat to upper caste position in India, its natural that they would try to discredit it. They would never accept it, no matter how many proofs we show them, its a waste of time. Instead we should think how to spread this information among the majority Native Indian(Lower caste) populations of India. Bangladesh and other neighboring countries can play a vital role, to educate the masses of India, utilizing social media and other sources. I don't think masses of India will ever break chains of psychological servitude, without effort of neighboring countries.

Caste system is a Racist apartheid law enacted with religious sanctity, to oppress the majority native population of India. Rakhigarhi evidence was twisted by (Aryan)upper caste dominated media into a proof against Aryan Invasion theory.

The real reason upper castes hate Islam is because after conversion, Islam transforms a native Indian( lower caste) person into a proud person, who rebels against (Aryan)upper caste.

Read this article for clarity.
https://caravanmagazine.in/religion/how-upper-castes-invented-hindu-majority

We, invite all freethinking people of the world to propagate Islam, Christianity, Communism and other ideologies based on equality, among the native ethnicities(lower caste) of India. Else there is little hope, it will take hundreds of years.

A refeshingly honest post.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Where did you pull this one? @Maira La already pointed out about root of Iran and Aryana.

Basic reading of Mahabharatha will show that the regions to the west of Hastinapura kingdom (Baluchistan and west) were filled with Gandharva tribes. Gandharva horses (Arab horses as we call today) were considered the best steed and used by Arjuna in Mahabharatha. Just because someone has made up arbitrary claims does not mean anything. The oldest book - Mahabharatha has the details of most of the races. It calls people of NE as "Kiratas", people of high North as "Chin", people of Baluchistan and west as Gandharvas. This is the most authentic claim and we can find that similar racial lines hold even today.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Basic reading of Mahabharatha will show that the regions to the west of Hastinapura kingdom (Baluchistan and west) were filled with Gandharva tribes. Gandharva horses (Arab horses as we call today) were considered the best steed and used by Arjuna in Mahabharatha. Just because someone has made up arbitrary claims does not mean anything. The oldest book - Mahabharatha has the details of most of the races. It calls people of NE as "Kiratas", people of high North as "Chin", people of Baluchistan and west as Gandharvas. This is the most authentic claim and we can find that similar racial lines hold even today.

Evidence?