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Indian Submarine Acquisitions (Conventional)

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u did the right thing by posting it here........so u know how a-26 can have vls.
 
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according to this link

SSK Gotland Class (Type A19) Attack Submarine Naval Technology

I don't think it can accommodate it.
so how is it going to compete
Naval chief visits France ahead of global submarine tenders


Author: idrw team | 8 July 2008 | Views: 185


BY : ZEE NEWS

With the Navy on the verge of floating global tenders to buy more submarines, Naval chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta has begun a six-day tour of France, a major supplier of subs to India.

In the course of his official visit, Mehta would hold talks with his French counterpart Admiral Pierre Frances Forissier and top defence brass of the country.

At the top on the admiral's itinerary is a visit to the French Navy's key submarine base of Cherboug, which houses the French nuclear submarines as well the drydocks for production of the conventional Scorpene Subs.

In a multi-billion euro deal inked in 2006, India is to produce six French Scorpene submarines under technology transfer at state-owned Mazagoan docks limited in Mumbai. The first of these submarines is expected to roll out by 2011.

Mehta recently told media persons that India would soon float international tenders for opening the country's second line of submarine production. DCN international, makers of the Scorpene submarines along with Germand HDW, Russian firms and Swedish sub makers would be vying for the deal.

Under a 20-year submarine perspective plan, Indian Navy hopes to acquire 24 submarines by the year 2020.
a-26 is the latest gotland class sub
http://www.fmv.se/upload/Bilder%20och%20dokument/Publikationer/Informationsmaterial/PROTEC/protec01_06.pdf
it looks different from current gotland class subs
they may also offer a share in its development

Eyeing MRCA deal, Sweden seeks defence cooperation with Indianews

10 September 2007


There's a Rs42,000-crore global tender at stake for 126 multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA), and participating countries have started lobbying for their aerospace companies by offering India joint development and defence cooperation. Sweden was the first off the block after tenders were issued late last month.

A high-level Swedish delegation led by vice minister for defence HG Wessburg was in Delhi to meet senior officials from the Indian ministry of defence last week. The proposal? Joint development of fighter aircraft and submarines. Swedish company SAAB's Gripen is one of the six fighter jets competing for the Indian MRCA tender.

"The Swedish government is proposing to invest in Gripen Fighters and is keen that India too take an investment stake in jointly developing these new generation fighters," Wessburg told the media after presenting a draft MoU for defence cooperation to defence secretary Vijay Singh.
domain-b.com : Eyeing MRCA deal, Sweden seeks defence cooperation with India
 
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I had seen this, but I still don't think that it will be able to accommodate BrahMos sort of missiles. But if it can then obviously it can participate and amy be win also. But if not, then I really doubt there chances, but the point is even the RFP is not out till now, let the RFP come out. Then only some thing concrete can be said.
 
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I had seen this, but I still don't think that it will be able to accommodate BrahMos sort of missiles. But if it can then obviously it can participate and amy be win also. But if not, then I really doubt there chances, but the point is even the RFP is not out till now, let the RFP come out. Then only some thing concrete can be said.
then we must settle with french or spanish subs ........i read an old post(RUSSIA'S OFFER OF IMPROVED AMUR CLASS SUBMARINES WITH BRAHMOS MUST BE CONSIDERED SERIOUSLY)which says western subs are advanced than amurs.........s-80 is very similar to scorpene structurally and italy may also make an offer with russia on s-1000,this would also be good.....my goodness there will be a real competition.
 
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then we must settle with french or spanish subs ........i read an old post(RUSSIA'S OFFER OF IMPROVED AMUR CLASS SUBMARINES WITH BRAHMOS MUST BE CONSIDERED SERIOUSLY)which says western subs are advanced than amurs.........s-80 is very similar to scorpene structurally and italy may also make an offer with russia on s-1000,this would also be good.....my goodness there will be a real competition.

In terms of IN & PN procurement of SSKs there is nothing more to say at this stage as the process is moving forward towards the selection stage as per my earlier posts.

We in the defence industry do have our own views on the process-but we are not the GoI and the environment over there is far from clear. Like the MRCA deal, the winning vendor will have significant geopolitical as well as capability benefits. In this regard Sweden offers next to nothing.
 
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Navy seeks six more diesel submarines after Scorpene

Navy seeks six more diesel submarines after Scorpene




New Delhi, Sept 26 (PTI) India has initiated the process of acquiring six more submarines on the lines of the under-construction Scorpenes to augment its underwater warfare capabilities.
"The Navy has initiated the process of acquisition of six more diesel-electric submarines and has issued a Request for Information (RFI) to major manufacturers across the globe," top Defence Ministry sources told PTI today.

"The Defence Ministry will now await responses from these companies and will follow it up with global tenders or Request for Proposals (RFP) next year," they said.

In all, Navy plans to procure 30 new submarines to have formidable underwater fighting capabilities.

India already has 16 submarines of the Russian Kilo and German HDW Shishumar Class.

Among the countries from where India is seeking information are France, Russia and Italy, all with major submarine manufacturing capabilities.

The new submarines would be procured as a follow-on of the six Scorpene submarines being built at the Defence Public Sector Undertaking shipyard, Mazagon Dockyards Limited (MDL), in Mumbai.

"The additional six submarines will start joining the Indian Navy fleet after all the first set of six Scorpenes have joined the naval fleet," the sources said. PTI
 
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Prasun K Sengupta: Indian Navy hunts for next line of diesel-electric submarines


To arrest the growing obsolescence of its undersea warfare capabilities, the Indian Navy (IN) recently issued Requests for Proposals (RFP) for six newgeneration ocean-going diesel-electric submarines (SSK) to add to the six Scorpene SSKs being built at state-owned Mazagon Docks Ltd (MDL) under a mammoth Rs 187.98 billion project. Global tenders for the six new SSKs will be floated by early next year, with the principal bidders expected to be Armaris of France, and Fincantieri of Italy teamed up with Russia’s Rubin Central Design Bureau for Marine Engineering. The German Submarine Consortium is not expected to take part in the bidding process as its Class 214 SSK was selected late last year for replacing the Pakistan Navy’s existing Agosta 70B SSKs. It is almost a foregone conclusion that Armaris’ SMX-21 SSK, incorporating the MESMA AIP module, will be offered, while Fincantieri will offer the S-800 (see photo), a stretched variant of its S-1000 SSK.

The SMX-21 (see photo) is designed for a wide range of missions, including deep-strike operations, attacks on naval forces and special operations. The combination can carry a range of modular mission packs, each comprising various weapons, sensors, special operations devices, mines, unmanned underwater vehicles (UUV), etc for a variety of missions. The SMX-21’s ‘three-in-one’ operational combination comprises a command submarine, which also provides at-sea support for three smaller submarines, and two smaller UUVs. The command and smaller submarines and UUVs can be docked to form a combination submarine operating as a single vessel. Alternatively, all three can be operated independently. A DCN/THALES-designed Migal Aliran Informasi Pertahanan interface module will expand the SMX-21’s combat capabilities by expediting the readying, target sequencing, launching and control of up to four wire-guided torpedoes at a time. Migal modules can also simulate up to four wireguided torpedoes at a time for training exercises. They can also be used to monitor in-tube torpedoes and manage self-testing and maintenance. The Malaysian and Indian navies have already selected the Migal module for theirrespective Scorpene SSKs.

The Royal Thai Navy, on the other hand, is seriously looking at Russia’s Amur 950 and Armaris’ SMX-23 Andrasta dieselelectric submarines, both of which displace less than 1,000 tonnes while submerged. As regards the S-800, one may recall that Russia and Italy had jointly presented on October 25, 2006 a mock-up model of a new-generation SSK at the Euronaval international exhibition in France. The S-1000, a 1,000-tonne SSK, which is derived from the Amur 950 SSK’s design, and is designed for anti-submarine and anti-ship warfare, reconnaissance missions, and transportation of up to 12 troops. It is 56.2 metres long, has a top speed while submerged of 14 knots and is equipped with a new fuel cellpowered Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system developed by Fincantieri.

The S-1000’s principal competitor in the global export market is the SMX-23 Andrasta from France’s ARMARIS. It is 49 metres long, displaces 860 tonnes, has a maximum submerged speed of 15 Knots, can dive to depths of 200 metres, has a range 1,850 miles while cruising at 8 Knots, has an at-sea endurance of 15 days, can remain underwater for 60 hours maximum by using its batteries, and has a crew complement of 19 sailors and officers. Designed primarily for export, the S- 1000 and its larger S-800 dervative will both feature an impressive array of weaponry, including Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subaqueibuilt wire-guided Black Shark torpedoes, 220-km range 3M54E1 Club-S supersonic anti-ship cruise missiles and the 290km-range 3M14E subsonic land-attack cruise missile, and the BrahMos vertically launched multi-role supersonic cruise missile (eight of which will be on board each S-800, contained inside an eight cell universal vertical launcher for missiles, or UVLM, fabricated by Larsen & Toubro Ltd).

Both SSKs, when equipped with AIP-based propulsion systems, will be capable of staying underwater for 10 days. The project to jointly develop these two SSKs was launched in April 2004. Due to the combined Italian-Russian offer of the S-800, Rosoboronexport State Corp will henceforth withdraw its earlier offer to the IN for its 1,600-tonne Amur 1650 SSK, which also recently lost out to the Class 209/Type 1200 SSK in a competition involving the supply of six newbuild SSKs by South Korea to the Indonesian Amur 1650.

If the S-800 is selected for procurement, then it will most likely be licence-built by Larsen & Toubro (L & T). It may be recalled that since the 1990s, L & T has forged risk-sharing industrial partnerships with several Italian shipbuilders and naval sub-systems suppliers, such as Riva Calzoni. The bulk of such industrial tie-ups pertained to the company’s involvement in the construction of the nuclear-powered Advanced Technology Vehicle (ATV) for India’s defence R & D Organisation (DRDO). L & T has also, along with Italy’s Cosmos (based in Livorno), fabricated for the DRDO a 200-tonne mini-submarine that will be used as a technology demonstrator in lieu of procuring six such SSKs for conducting covert special operations.

Meanwhile, several new design/performance data pertaining to the IN’s six Scorpenes have now emerged. Each Scorpene SSK displace 1,570 tonnes surfaced and 1,960 dived, and features a circular outer hull built of HLES-90 highstrength steel, with this outer hull also being the pressure hull. At the bow the cross-section of the hull will narrow to an oval shape, ensuring the minimum underwater hydrodynamic resistance. A lot of effort is being made to reduce self-generated noise, resulting in a clean, streamlined casing and noise damping of all equipment. An array of hydrophones will be fitted all round the hull to measure the radiated noise level and provide immediate identification of areas of self-generated noise. The Scorpene SSK will be armed with four bow torpedo tubes fitted with a pneumatic ram discharge system. The bow tubes allow weapon discharge, irrespective of the speed of the SSK, down to its maximum diving depth. The SSK will also incorporate a rapid reload system. Fire-control will be exercised through a single, centralised computer using the DLA-2A system, which will also feature an automatic navigational plotting system. The Scorpene SSK’s sensors include an 8kHz active search/attack sonar, passive ranging and passive towed-array sonars. Intercept sonars and a torpedo-attack warning systems will also be fitted. The Scorpene SSK’s primary propulsion system will comprise two SEMT-Pielstick 16 PA4 V 185 VG diesels developing 2.65mW driving two Jeumont Schneider 1.7mW alternators. A single watercooled 3.4mW electric motor with double armature will directly drive the propellers. There will be an intermediate clutch in order to reduce noise level to a minimum. In addition, there will be a 23kW electric motor provided for cruise speeds. The SSK’s two independent banks of batteries use an electrolyte agitation system with water circuit cooling to extend service life and improve efficiency. Crew accommodation-related power services will be provided by two generators, with the alternating current being provided by means of five converter sets with two solid-state inverters. There will also be oxygen generating units and independent CO2 absorption units. The core of the SUBTICS combat management system (CMS) will be an open and modular architecture based on standard data processors (TMS 320 C30 processors on a speed ring network), redundant databus and six multi-function common consoles equipped with two highdefinition 19-inch colour AMLCD monitors.The dual redundant Ethernet databus will offer reliable and continuous communications in the event of damage, the multi-function common consoles and allow manning and configuration flexibility, and together provide function and data operational availability. The sonar sub-system will include a set of acoustic arrays and appropriate detection (or transmission), tracking, and analysis and localisation processing modules, together with a set of common processing modules for contact motion analysis, classification, identification and track management using broadband, narrowband, demon and pulse (passive interception and ranging) processing channels. The basic set of acoustic arrays will include a cylindrical or conformal bow array, an active array, a distributed array, an intercept array, a thin-line towed-array, a flank array, and optionally an obstacle avoidance array. The contact motion analysis module will include automatic and interactive processing functions. The classification and identification module will include audio and spectrum analysis processing functions, plus interactive hypothesis generation and verification functions. The track management module include interactive association and fusion processing functions, plus sorting of best representative acoustic track function. The basic components of the command and weapon control sub-system will include a set of situation elaboration modules, a set of command and decision modules, and a set of engagement and launching modules. The set of situation elaboration modules will include acoustic and non-acoustic sensors track association and fusion functions, interactive target motion analysis functions, and track management functions able to sort out tracks of particular tactical interest among a set of 100 recorded tracks. The set of command and decision modules will include threat evaluation of localised and classified tracks, plus attack and escape manoeuvre planning tools. The SSK will be fitted with Thales’ TIT tactical information processor, DSM submarine detection system, LAS air-surface warfare and navigation system using the SAGEM Défense Sécurité of France’s SIGMA-40XP strapdown ring laser gyro inertial navigation system, DLA launch control system, TSM-22/23 forward panoramic sonar, DR-3000 ESM system, SAGEM’s MICIN Mod 3 inertial navigation control unit and SS Mk1 steering control station, Safare-Crouzet’s Velox DUUG-7A/Velox-M7 sonar interceptor, Sopelem-Sofretec’s Type J and ST-5 periscopes, Kelvin-Hughes navigation radar, and CEAC’s electrical energy storage batteries. The principal WAAS’s C-303 expendable torpedo decoys L & T’s submarine masts SMX-21 SSK 88 armament suite will comprise the MBDA-built Exocet SM-40 Block 3 submarine-launched anti-ship missile, and up to 16 Whitehead 533mm torpedoes.

Meanwhile, as part of the second mid-life refit of its existing four Class 209/Type 1500 SSKs, the IN has installed on the first two vessels ATLAS Elektronik’s ISUS-90 combat management system, CSU-90 cylindrical active/passive bow-mounted sonar, passive planar flank arrays and intercept arrays (for providing warning against approaching torpedoes), passive ranging array, a three-dimensional mine and obstacle avoidance sonar, and a thin-line towed-array winch system; along with Alenia Sistemi Subacquei’s C-303 submarine-fired torpedo decoy dispensers and a self-noise monitoring system. A similar refit on the remaining two Class 209/Type 1500 boats is now underway.

The IN’s six Scorpenes too will have on board the C-303 decoy systems. The hunt is now on for reelable thin-line towed-array sonars to be installed on board the six Scorpene SSKs (thus optimising them for littoral warfare in shallow waters) for which systems from THALES Underwater Systems, ATLAS Elektronik and L-3 Communications/Ocean Systems are being looked at.

LiveFist: Prasun K Sengupta: Indian Navy hunts for next line of diesel-electric submarines
 
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guys, I feel there will be repeat order for scorpenes probably six more. What you say?
 
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well I dont think it will be the repeat of order considering the Navy chief remarks on the requirements of the new line of submarine sometimes ago.
 
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here is the news from PTINavy seeks six more diesel submarines after Scorpene

New Delhi, Sept 26 (PTI) India has initiated the process of acquiring six more submarines on the lines of the under-construction Scorpenes to augment its underwater warfare capabilities.
"The Navy has initiated the process of acquisition of six more diesel-electric submarines and has issued a Request for Information (RFI) to major manufacturers across the globe," top Defence Ministry sources told PTI today.

"The Defence Ministry will now await responses from these companies and will follow it up with global tenders or Request for Proposals (RFP) next year," they said.

In all, Navy plans to procure 30 new submarines to have formidable underwater fighting capabilities.

India already has 16 submarines of the Russian Kilo and German HDW Shishumar Class.

Among the countries from where India is seeking information are France, Russia and Italy, all with major submarine manufacturing capabilities.

The new submarines would be procured as a follow-on of the six Scorpene submarines being built at the Defence Public Sector Undertaking shipyard, Mazagon Dockyards Limited (MDL), in Mumbai.

"The additional six submarines will start joining the Indian Navy fleet after all the first set of six Scorpenes have joined the naval fleet," the sources said. PTI
 
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well I dont think it will be the repeat of order considering the Navy chief remarks on the requirements of the new line of submarine sometimes ago.

according to news they want to have 30 submarines. Right now we have 16 (12 kilos and 4 HDW 209). When the 6 scorpenes will enter in service these 16 will be in last leg of there life. Say they get retired by 2025. By this time the second line will enter in to service. I hope by that time will have 3-4 ATV's. We can have 6-8 SSN/SSBN combination. I don't think navy will have more then that in this category. Then by 2025 we will be having 12 SSK (minimum) and 6-8 SSN/SSBN. This comes to 18-20. So what these other 10 will be? So there will be a repeat order now we need to see which ones.
 
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according to news they want to have 30 submarines. Right now we have 16 (12 kilos and 4 HDW 209). When the 6 scorpenes will enter in service these 16 will be in last leg of there life. Say they get retired by 2025. By this time the second line will enter in to service. I hope by that time will have 3-4 ATV's. We can have 6-8 SSN/SSBN combination. I don't think navy will have more then that in this category. Then by 2025 we will be having 12 SSK (minimum) and 6-8 SSN/SSBN. This comes to 18-20. So what these other 10 will be? So there will be a repeat order now we need to see which ones.
may be they want to fill that gap with Indigenous ssk after all India can not rely upon the other nation to supply ssk all the time....and probably thats the reason why scorpen and the next line of submarines are going to come with TOT. otherwise no point in wasting extra billions for TOT.
 
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may be they want to fill that gap with Indigenous ssk after all India can not rely upon the other nation to supply ssk all the time....and probably thats the reason why scorpen and the next line of submarines are going to come with TOT. otherwise no point in wasting extra billions for TOT.

Agree to your point but still no project has been announced regarding the design for new SSK. Will have to wait and watch
 
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