Indian Special Forces

[hkdas]

Yup.

an/peq-2

You are underestimating the training of Indian SF.I saw a video on youtube where US SF operator was praising the capabilities of Indian SF instructors.The drill and all are carefully designed and US SF instructors are regular to Nahan.

its not on youtube bro, it was in an article in here http://www.soc.mil/SWCS/SWmag/archive/SW2701/SW2407TheCaseforIndia.html

I have seen CQB simulators 8 years ago used by Para (non SF) so it will be a safe guess to assume that in 2015 the infra will be much better.

the Kill house in nahan is not advanced one.

 

[Abingdonboy]

View attachment 211247
an/peq-2

I'm aware of that.

AN/PEQ-15 is in service my friend, don't worry about it

 

[hkdas]

Which equipment does the western SF have which puts us decades behind??

almost every equipment.. from BJ to NVGs, communication equipment to surveillance equipments. in every field india is behind western SF

Lastly,without disclosing much i would like to share that Nahan is not the primary SF school as on 2015

are you talking about the new 1500 acre training facility??

I'm aware of that.

AN/PEQ-15 is in service my friend, don't worry about it

bro, do you have any pics of it??

Would a undercover SF operator carry Tavor or AK in Kashmir?..and this is why they are carrying AK otherwise everyone prefers the Tavor.

marcos with AKs in joint exercises and in combat deployments.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

almost every equipment.. from BJ to NVGs, communication equipment to surveillance equipments. in every field india is behind western SF

are you talking about the new 1500 acre training facility??


bro, do you have any pics of it??



View attachment 211252
View attachment 211253
marcos with AKs in joint exercises and in combat deployments.

Surveillance and reach or range is the only thing in which they are literally decades ahead.Rest of the things are not the best in our Army and that is what you get with a 40 billion dollar budget.

I dont know about you but 'special' operations are achieved by a motivated team of well trained operators under a leadership which shows that it has balls of steal.Having the best or second best NVG or laser designator are not too important.

View attachment 211247
an/peq-2



its not on youtube bro, it was in an article in here http://www.soc.mil/SWCS/SWmag/archive/SW2701/SW2407TheCaseforIndia.html


the Kill house in nahan is not advanced one.

Nahan is a base for the SF in charge of Kashmir..nothing more.Why do we need to compare it with other schools??

 

[me_itsme]

View attachment 211247
an/peq-2

Can you post the full pic please?

 

[hkdas]

Surveillance and reach or range is the only thing in which they are literally decades ahead.Rest of the things are not the best in our Army and that is what you get with a 40 billion dollar budget.

I dont know about you but 'special' operations are achieved by a motivated team of well trained operators under a leadership which shows that it has balls of steal.Having the best or second best NVG or laser designator are not too important.

technology have a greater role in winning the operations. high motivations and leadership are basic things need for SF. the technology and the tactics plays a grater roll. in every country the best available equipment are given to SF. because they need it more than any force. NVGs, laser designator, laser pointers, high end communication and navigation devices are force multiplier.

Nahan is a base for the SF in charge of Kashmir..nothing more.Why do we need to compare it with other schools??

what do you mean by nahan is for soldiers in charge of kashmir?? every para commandos are trained in nahan, which includes 10th and 21 paras.

Can you post the full pic please?

it is a screen shot from this documentry
वतन के रखवाले : सेना के स्पेशल फोर्स के कमांडो

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

technology have a greater role in winning the operations. high motivations and leadership are basic things need for SF. the technology and the tactics plays a grater roll. in every country the best available equipment are given to SF. because they need it more than any force. NVGs, laser designator, laser pointers, high end communication and navigation devices are force multiplier.


what do you mean by nahan is for soldiers in charge of kashmir?? every para commandos are trained in nahan, which includes 10th and 21 paras.



it is a screen shot from this documentry
वतन के रखवाले : सेना के स्पेशल फोर्स के कमांडो

So where are we lacking?We have NVGs,HHTI,UAV,portable radars,best rifles,C130 etc and have a very capable SF which may not and need not be the best in the world but are best in the region for sure.

We have a proud history with our SF completing every given task.

Regarding the Nahan base.It is a Headquater for the SF unit which is sent to Kashmir.All the companies of the unit serve in Kashmir on rotation and Nahan serves as the base like Xyz base in Assam serves as a base for all SF in North East.

 

[hkdas]

So where are we lacking?We have NVGs,HHTI,UAV,portable radars,best rifles,C130 etc and have a very capable SF which may not and need not be the best in the world but are best in the region for sure

NVG- limited in numbers, not helmet mounded, only monocular are in service.
UAV- very limited no of hand launched UAVs,
best rife? no, tavor is a good rifle but not the best. its not that accurate as hk-416 or fn scar. being a bullup design reloading time is more in tavor.

what we don't have:
light weight FAST helmets with rail system for attaching accessories like helmet mounted illuminator, binocular NVGs, helmet mounted lighting system etc
high tech communication devices with which a SF operator can communicates with pilots to direct CAS aircrafts.
light weight BJ.
adequate number of NVGs for our SF
dedicated helicopters for special forces.
wrist computer for sharing real time intelligence

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

NVG- limited in numbers, not helmet mounded, only monocular are in service.
UAV- very limited no of hand launched UAVs,
best rife? no, tavor is a good rifle but not the best. its not that accurate as hk-416 or fn scar. being a bullup design reloading time is more in tavor.

what we don't have:
light weight FAST helmets with rail system for attaching accessories like helmet mounted illuminator, binocular NVGs, helmet mounted lighting system etc
high tech communication devices with which a SF operator can communicates with pilots to direct CAS aircrafts.
light weight BJ.
adequate number of NVGs for our SF
dedicated helicopters for special forces.
wrist computer for sharing real time intelligence

That is all wishful thinking for a budget of 40 billion and a Army of 1.3 million.

What difference will a binocular NVG mounted on a helmet make to the existing monocular one already in use?

Similarly,what is the benefit of a FAST helmet over a conventional helmet used by NSG?

NVG in SF are in adequate numbers and same goes for UAV..what is a adequate number for SF which is not a Infantry and will be used selectively?

Tavor and M4 are among the best in the world.What difference will the best make from one of the best?

How are Pakistani and Chinese SF compared to Indian SF?Why do we need to compare with the US when we are not going to be in a war with them?

Regarding,the CAS a/c i completely agree and we need a better helicopter for our SF.OTOH C130 is a perfect platform.

What we need is better surveillance and range.We already have a upper hand in this but we need to stay ahead and like you rightly said we need better communication sets and air strikes on call for SF operators.

But in the end we have to remember that technology can only take you so far.One of the best SF for me in Asia are from Philippines and Malayasia which are technologically inferior or at par with us.Except for Op Geronimo all other SF operations success were based on good planning and the men involved.So we dont have to be to depressed to not be the most tech savvy.

 

[hkdas]

What difference will a binocular NVG mounted on a helmet make to the existing monocular one already in use?

a binocular provide grater field of view(fov). US is adopting panoramic NVGs and we are still stuck in monoculars
this pics shows the difference in vew of a panoramic NVG and a monocular NVG

Similarly,what is the benefit of a FAST helmet over a conventional helmet used by NSG?

the helmets used by NSg is bulky and heavy, it don's have any provision for attaching gadgets, we if we add this it will be too heavy.
look at the difference:

you tell me which one is good??

NVG in SF are in adequate numbers and same goes for UAV..what is a adequate number for SF which is not a Infantry and will be used selectively?

may be they have adequate no of NVGs but not a good quality.

Tavor and M4 are among the best in the world.What difference will the best make from one of the best?

m4 and tavor are not the best rifles in the world. even US is looking for replacement of M4. US special forces have already replace M4 with Fn SCAR and HK-416.

How are Pakistani and Chinese SF compared to Indian SF?Why do we need to compare with the US when we are not going to be in a war with them?

if NATO sf think like you, then, their SF equipment will be similar to indian sf. even in Afghanistan ISAF is equipped with high end gadgets to fight talibans who don't even have a optical gun sight. chines are getting advance day by day. so we needs to ahead of enemy in technology and training.

But in the end we have to remember that technology can only take you so far.One of the best SF for me in Asia are from Philippines and Malayasia which are technologically inferior or at par with us.Except for Op Geronimo all other SF operations success were based on good planning and the men involved.So we dont have to be to depressed to not be the most tech savvy.

yes, Malaysia and Philippines have best SF in south asia when it comes to technology and equipment. best SF in asia are from Israel and south korea. Jordan also have good sf. they have one of the best training centers in the world.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

a binocular provide grater field of view(fov). US is adopting panoramic NVGs and we are still stuck in monoculars
this pics shows the difference in vew of a panoramic NVG and a monocular NVG

the helmets used by NSg is bulky and heavy, it don's have any provision for attaching gadgets, we if we add this it will be too heavy.
look at the difference:

View attachment 211519
you tell me which one is good??

may be they have adequate no of NVGs but not a good quality.

m4 and tavor are not the best rifles in the world. even US is looking for replacement of M4. US special forces have already replace M4 with Fn SCAR and HK-416.

if NATO sf think like you, then, their SF equipment will be similar to indian sf. even in Afghanistan ISAF is equipped with high end gadgets to fight talibans who don't even have a optical gun sight. chines are getting advance day by day. so we needs to ahead of enemy in technology and training.

yes, Malaysia and Philippines have best SF in south asia when it comes to technology and equipment. best SF in asia are from Israel and south korea. Jordan also have good sf. they have one of the best training centers in the world.

India is a country of 125+crore people and a budget of 40 billion for 1.3 million Army.USA and Europe spend 10 times the amount on a average SF soldier.

We should equip to be better than our adversary!How many panaromic and monocular NVG does Pakistan and Chinese SF have?Which rifle in the Pakistan and Chinese army is better than Indian Tavor or M4?How many Fast helmets are the Pakistanis using and what advantage will it give them in a war with India??

NATO and US need not think like me because they are filthy rich unlike us.40 billion is a poor budget for a Army of 1.3 million.That is why SF and the foot soldiers are last in the list of things to buy.

I have no doubt in my mind that our soldiers need better things coming from a Army background.We need 3 basic things first before any hi tech gadgets and ie Helmet,BPJ and shoes followed by a rifle which is a soldiers best friend.Then comes better reach to prevent 26/11 type of incidents followed by NVG,radio sets and the rest.

The things you mention are surely going to be there in the Indian SF by 2020 but then again US and Nato will be a decade ahead in 2020 coz of the constant development in military technology and a filthy rich budget.

My point is that we should not compare with the US and Nato as of now.

The reason i mentioned Philippines and Malayasia is because i was watching a programme on Discovery Turbo named 'Manhunt' and the Philippines Marines had just basic equipment but their soldiers were very good with living of the land and were very skilled.That is why i say technology can only take you so far.

BTW,if rumours are to be trusted then expect FAST helmets by 2017 and according to @Abingdonboy we will also have monocular sights soon.

BTW you say Tavor,M4 and AK are not even one of the best but you say Israeli SF is top notch and Israeli use all 3??

 

[hkdas]

India is a country of 125+crore people and a budget of 40 billion for 1.3 million Army.USA and Europe spend 10 times the amount on a average SF soldier.

We should equip to be better than our adversary!How many panaromic and monocular NVG does Pakistan and Chinese SF have?Which rifle in the Pakistan and Chinese army is better than Indian Tavor or M4?How many Fast helmets are the Pakistanis using and what advantage will it give them in a war with India??

NATO and US need not think like me because they are filthy rich unlike us.40 billion is a poor budget for a Army of 1.3 million.That is why SF and the foot soldiers are last in the list of things to buy.

I have no doubt in my mind that our soldiers need better things coming from a Army background.We need 3 basic things first before any hi tech gadgets and ie Helmet,BPJ and shoes followed by a rifle which is a soldiers best friend.Then comes better reach to prevent 26/11 type of incidents followed by NVG,radio sets and the rest.

The things you mention are surely going to be there in the Indian SF by 2020 but then again US and Nato will be a decade ahead in 2020 coz of the constant development in military technology and a filthy rich budget.

My point is that we should not compare with the US and Nato as of now.

The reason i mentioned Philippines and Malayasia is because i was watching a programme on Discovery Turbo named 'Manhunt' and the Philippines Marines had just basic equipment but their soldiers were very good with living of the land and were very skilled.That is why i say technology can only take you so far.

BTW,if rumours are to be trusted then expect FAST helmets by 2017 and according to @Abingdonboy we will also have monocular sights soon.

BTW you say Tavor,M4 and AK are not even one of the best but you say Israeli SF is top notch and Israeli use all 3??

thats the problem. our army is increasing the number wthout increasing the budget. if they can't equip our soldier properly with the budget then why are the increasing the number? pakistan have FASt helmets in service with their SSGN. i had read about the advantage of IR illuminators in helmets and how that will help the sniper to identify the friendlies in an article in here. pakistanis use IR pointers and have better optical sights for their weapons. they have NVGs for almost every infantry and SF soldiers, and these will increasing their fighting efficiency at night. they use laser poiters in Sniper rifle, which is very effective in combat. i know they got this for foreign aid from US, but the point is they have it, no matter how they get it. pakistanis don't have binocular NVGs, but Pakistanis are not our bench mark, we don't need to always compair with them. we needs to be ahead of our enemy.
advantage of a FASt helmets is that it is light weight and can attach accessories on it.

BTW,if rumours are to be trusted then expect FAST helmets by 2017 and according to @Abingdonboy we will also have monocular sights soon.

do we have any accessories with those FAST helmets??

BTW you say Tavor,M4 and AK are not even one of the best but you say Israeli SF is top notch and Israeli use all 3??

we don't know what kind of equipments Israelis use.. they introduce m4 into their service in late 90s. we introduce it after 2008., at the time US is looking replacement of that rifle.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

thats the problem. our army is increasing the number wthout increasing the budget. if they can't equip our soldier properly with the budget then why are the increasing the number? pakistan have FASt helmets in service with their SSGN. i had read about the advantage of IR illuminators in helmets and how that will help the sniper to identify the friendlies in an article in here. pakistanis use IR pointers and have better optical sights for their weapons. they have NVGs for almost every infantry and SF soldiers, and these will increasing their fighting efficiency at night. they use laser poiters in Sniper rifle, which is very effective in combat. i know they got this for foreign aid from US, but the point is they have it, no matter how they get it. pakistanis don't have binocular NVGs, but Pakistanis are not our bench mark, we don't need to always compair with them. we needs to be ahead of our enemy.
advantage of a FASt helmets is that it is light weight and can attach accessories on it.


do we have any accessories with those FAST helmets??


we don't know what kind of equipments Israelis use.. they introduce m4 into their service in late 90s. we introduce it after 2008., at the time US is looking replacement of that rifle.

To be honest the gear you talk about i dont see it coming less than a decade away for the infantry and 5 years for SF.

FAST helmets are not game changers.SSG (N) has a few FAST helmets but i am not sure if they have IR iluminators.If just using it by a small team is a big deal then even PARA SF has FAST helmets.

I think SG might have the equipment pretty soon though.

You rightly said that Pakistan is not our benchmark but so is not the US with its economy.Our surveillance and communication infra is way above Pakistan in LOC.As far as night fighting capability goes we have 1 HHTI and 2-4 NVGs in every platoon and slowly they are inducting in numbers.

In sniper training i feel we need to pull up our socks with the US Army's help.I dont think we use pointers or computers for calculation for that matter.

Our SF is where US SF was at in 2003-04.

Our Infantry soldier is where US Infantry soldier was at in Gulf war 91.

But with the co-operation with foreign SF we will soon be there.When FAST helmets do get inducted they will be with all the rails and the pointers.

Weapon wise we need a better LMG before a AR and better NVGs.I feel Tavor is good till 2020.

Look we have come a long way since 26/11.So we will be there soon.

 

[ranjeet]

Pic is from Indian rescue mission in the city of Aden. Are these marcos?
@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy

 

[Abingdonboy]

Pic is from Indian rescue mission in the city of Aden. Are these marcos?
@COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Abingdonboy

The ones in the grey UCP are, the ones in the black are part of the ship's VBSS team.