Indian Space Capabilities

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Why not use the millions to build some world class universities ?

Well I guess we already have some here in India.

 

[Always Neutral]

Well I guess we already have some here in India.

Dear IPF,

Yes you may do but not enough for the population you have ?

Regards

 

[Flintlock]

Why not use the millions to build some world class universities ?

UK, Japan, S Korea, France, Germany all co-operate in Space without having individual space progarmmes ?

I can add 50 more countries who much more advanced then India and China who also donot feel the need to go for a moon mission to motivate their citizens. Also I have no qualms in accepting that asian brain is today probably more hungry for knowledge then the EU brain so there is no need to spend millions on something already done.

Regards

India is already spending millions on building universities. Read up on the recent news.
Rest assured, India's investment in education etc. isn't being compromised because of this.

The EU is a different scenario. India is not a part of the EU and hence cannot obtain all the technology.

Your reasons for not having a space program are hardly compelling.

A decent space program is not an option for an influential country. Its a necessity, as I have explained in my earlier post.

You have not bothered to reply to the rest of my post, as I can see.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yeah, dude, we live in the real world. Not in some fairyland where everyone shares everything and lives happily ever after.

India, China and the third world are countries with massive third world problems, and therfore need massive investment in science and technology in order to catch up with the first world.

Do you have any idea of the effect a successful moon mission will have on the people of the country?
It will be a source of inspiration and pride for everybody in the Indian middle class.

It will encourage students to take up science. It go a long way in removing the cobwebs of underachievement from the minds of people.

The Chinese, Russians are no fools to spend millions on manned space missions.

Besides, any world power in the 21st century needs to have a viable space program. Space might well be the next frontier.



I don't know. Ask the Chinese government.

BTW, ISRO and NASA are collaborating in this project. NASA is supplying a wide range of scientific instruments, and the data is being shared.

By your logic, why should India reinvent anything? Why make LCA when we can buy planes from the Russians or Americans? Why build tanks when we can buy? Why spend millions on research in universities when we can "cooperate" with the americans and get all the latest tech?

So essentially the argument in favor of the moon mission is "power status".

Hence Always's comment/question - what tangible advantage is there for the moon mission?

Everything you have mentioned is intangible, and unproven - "a source of pride in the middle class", "inspiration to take up science" etc.

He has a valid point in that the billions spent on the lunar program do nothing in terms of India's security needs and nothing in terms of providing access to basic services for tens of millions of people lacking them.

India may already be investing in those services, but the billions going into the lunar program means that they won't be used elsewhere, and there will be people who will suffer.

If you can show me that the programs India has undertaken to provide relief to the poor are going to reach the vast majority of those lacking, and improve their condition, then I would agree that there is room for the lunar program.

So long as there are people being left out, this is frivolous.

 

[Always Neutral]

India is already spending millions on building universities. Read up on the recent news.
Rest assured, India's investment in education etc. isn't being compromised because of this.

The EU is a different scenario. India is not a part of the EU and hence cannot obtain all the technology.

Your reasons for not having a space program are hardly compelling.

A decent space program is not an option for an influential country. Its a necessity, as I have explained in my earlier post.

You have not bothered to reply to the rest of my post, as I can see.

Dear SA,

I am not sure what part of your post you need a reply for ?

As regards why Russia invested in a space program, the answer is simple for military purpose but once it realised there is nothing much to gain in the race to moon it was the first country to tie up with USA and the EU on the ISS. Even Japan who is miles of head of most of the world preferred building a module of the ISS instead of jumping into a space race.

Lastly you space program is just copying the US.

They went to the Moon so 30 years later you announce you will go there.
They went to the Mars so now you announce you will go there.

Why not innovate and go to Mercury or Jupiter and do something new.

Regards

 

[Always Neutral]

India is already spending millions on building universities. Read up on the recent news.
Rest assured, India's investment in education etc. isn't being compromised because of this.

Is that the reason why most people went on a mass strike recently in Jaiput so that they could get reservations in colleges and govt. jobs. More than 30 people died and India lost more than USD 150 million during the agitation.

If education was freely available why would those people fight for reservations ?

Regards

 

[Flintlock]

So essentially the argument in favor of the moon mission is "power status".

No its not. I said that a world power needs a viable space program.
Now why would a world power need a viable space program?

1. For exploratory missions to scout for possible mineral sources, energy sources, possiblilities for human settlement.

2. Defence applications. To ensure that space is not monopolized by another power and hence national interests compromised.

3. For commercial purposes: ISRO can earn millions (and already is) by contracting.

Everything you have mentioned is intangible, and unproven - "a source of pride in the middle class", "inspiration to take up science" etc.

Agno, pride might be intanglble to you, but it is a very, very essential factor for nation building.

Ask the Chinese if you don't believe me. Without pride, a nation cannot function.

He has a valid point in that the billions spent on the lunar program do nothing in terms of India's security needs and of nothing in terms of providing access to tens of millions of people lacking in basic services.

That's because the lunar mission has nothing to do with providing basic services or addressing security needs.

Not everything a developing nation does has to be immediately related to poverty alleviation.

The Indian Space Program has been active since the early 60s, and just because it has been far more successful than the poverty alleviation program, doesn't mean that we abandon it when it reaches its logical milestones.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Dear IPF,

Yes you may do but not enough for the population you have ?

Dear AN actually there is a lot going on in university education. First there is talk of reforms in education sectors, there are already plans to allow foreign universities to set up campuses in full or in fifty fifty basis in India(eg cornell). Also private players are entering the foray. Governmnet has realised that it cannot simply fund institutes from its coffers so is encouraging foreign and private investment(Vedanta university) into the sector. Also there is a renewed interest in fundamental sciences. New institutes in collaboration with major R and D labs are being setup to impart education in fundamental sciences, case point being ISRO's new intitute which offers intergrated Masters programme in Physics,Chemistry, Aerosapace etc, also IGCAR and TIFR and BARC have collaborated to start such five year programmes in Mumbai, so the higher education scene seems to be exciting, especially for the next generation.

 

[Flintlock]

Is that the reason why most people went on a mass strike recently in Jaiput so that they could get reservations in colleges and govt. jobs. More than 30 people died and India lost more than USD 150 million during the agitation.

If education was freely available why would those people fight for reservations ?

Regards

What does the failure of the education program have to do with the phenomenal success of the space program?

Don't try to relate things that have nothing to do with each other.

 

[Flintlock]

Dear SA,
As regards why Russia invested in a space program, the answer is simple for military purpose but once it realised there is nothing much to gain in the race to moon it was the first country to tie up with USA and the EU on the ISS. Even Japan who is miles of head of most of the world preferred building a module of the ISS instead of jumping into a space race.

Quote from Wikipedia:

On September 14, 2007, JAXA succeeded in launching lunar orbit explorer "Kaguya", also known as SELENE (costing 55 billion yen including launch vehicle), the largest such mission since the Apollo program, on an H-2A rocket. Its mission is to gather data on the moon's origin and evolution. It entered into a lunar orbit on October 4.[6] [7]

They went to the Moon so 30 years later you announce you will go there.
They went to the Mars so now you announce you will go there.

Why not innovate and go to Mercury or Jupiter and do something new.

Right. There is a reason why India needs to "copy" the US.

The Moon, and Mars are two most logical places to send exploratory missions.
The Moon, obviously because it is the closest and thus the easiest option to send an exploratory probe.
Mars, because its climate is similar to earth and it might be able to support human life in the future.

I would have expected you to know such elementary things.

 

[Always Neutral]

What does the failure of the education program have to do with the phenomenal success of the space program?

Don't try to relate things that have nothing to do with each other.

Dear SA,

Explanation is very simple. I would vote out my Govt. if they diluted the educational, health, human rights standards in my country. I would definately not bother if they went to the moon or not.

Regards

 

[Flintlock]

Dear SA,

Explanation is very simple. I would vote out my Govt. if they diluted the educational, health, human rights standards in my country. I would definately not bother if they went to the moon or not.

Regards

What does your vote have to do with the space program?

The government had, btw, nothing to do with the success of ISRO. Its the scientists who have toiled on 3rd world wages to make it a success.

Now that they have achieved success, you want to say:

"wait! Indians are still poor, so it would be a shame to let you continue your work. Please wait until we are a first world nation and then we can continue the space program".

Does that make sense to you? If it does, then I am afraid that we must agree to disagree.

 

[Always Neutral]

Quote from Wikipedia:

.

Thank you for the above information but it still doesnot explain the following

1. Why are Indians travelling out of the country for higher level education ?
2. Why are Asians the biggest group of illegal immigrants to the USA and EU ?
3. Even if the space launch is successfull how will it help Indians ? Okay they will be motivated to study but you donot have enough institutions for that ?
4. Why is a tribe in jaipur ready to kill themselves in riots to be downgraded to get reservations in educational institutions ?

Regards

Ps : I have travelled to India several times and think its a great country.

 

[Always Neutral]

What does your vote have to do with the space program?

The government had, btw, nothing to do with the success of ISRO. Its the scientists who have toiled on 3rd world wages to make it a success.

Now that they have achieved success, you want to say:

"wait! Indians are still poor, so it would be a shame to let you continue your work. Please wait until we are a first world nation and then we can continue the space program".

Does that make sense to you? If it does, then I am afraid that we must agree to disagree.

There are cheaper and more cost effective ways to achieve it. Thats the only point I am making.

Regards

 

[Flintlock]

Thank you for the above information but it still doesnot explain the following

1. Why are Indians travelling out of the country for higher level education ?
2. Why are Asians the biggest group of illegal immigrants to the USA and EU ?
3. Even if the space launch is successfull how will it help Indians ? Okay they will be motivated to study but you donot have enough institutions for that ?
4. Why is a tribe in jaipur ready to kill themselves in riots to be downgraded to get reservations in educational institutions ?

Regards

Ps : I have travelled to India several times and think its a great country.

What exactly does all this have to do with India's space program?