Indian Political Corner | All Updates & Discussions.

[ranjeet]

@jamahir
Here's the update on Desi comrades.... giving represnetations to marginalized section of our society

https://twitter.com/x/status/988081512817070081

 

[jamahir]

@jamahir
Here's the update on Desi comrades.... giving represnetations to marginalized section of our society

https://twitter.com/x/status/988081512817070081

A clear mistake, no doubt.

I think the late Rohith Vemula was disenchanted with this state of Indian progressive groups.

The desi Left must give space ( in the Politburo ) to Dalits, women and other sub-groups.

 

[Soumitra]

 

[Nilgiri]

A clear mistake, no doubt.

I think the late Rohith Vemula was disenchanted with this state of Indian progressive groups.

The desi Left must give space ( in the Politburo ) to Dalits, women and other sub-groups.

Yechury is smart guy and all and probably best status-quo candidate to continue on..... but I think Commies need to have their own internal revolution to re-energise + focus on only West Bengal for moment (because anti-Didi sentiment is increasing) if they are to have a chance politically long term in staying relevant. This would need a complete new leadership...and few new paradigms they need to take on board, like maybe experiment with more nationalist form of communism that say S.C Bose was favouring (and Soviets implemented to large degree). Having better representation from more groups (i.e practice what they preach) is also something to be looked at like you say for sure.....but they seem to be more in the "wait and watch" mode....and I think long term it will decay/atrophy even more with no change.

This is coming from me on opposite side of spectrum ...because I think the battle needs to be tough to make the victories worthwhile.

 

[Soumitra]

Sab mile hue hain ji

 

[jamahir]

Yechury is smart guy and all and probably best status-quo candidate to continue on

Agreed.

..... but I think Commies need to have their own internal revolution to re-energise

About three years ago, there was talk within the general Indian socialist movement of re-unification of all branches of the socialist/communist groups that had diverged in the 60's.

This will create a big platform.

+ focus on only West Bengal for moment (because anti-Didi sentiment is increasing) if they are to have a chance politically long term in staying relevant.

Okay, I didn't know that.

This would need a complete new leadership

Yes, especially with new youth leaders like Kanhaiya Kumar, Umar Khalid and Shehla Rashid.

Add to it, if there is re-unification.

...and few new paradigms they need to take on board, like maybe experiment with more nationalist form of communism that say S.C Bose was favouring (and Soviets implemented to large degree).

I didn't understand this. Can you explain??

Having better representation from more groups (i.e practice what they preach) is also something to be looked at like you say for sure.....but they seem to be more in the "wait and watch" mode....and I think long term it will decay/atrophy even more with no change.

"Wait and watch" I remember to have heard from the Left during the Manmohan Singh regime. This must be discarded and a vigorous people's movement created, like among the youth of the 60's to 80's.

 

[pothead]

"Wait and watch" I remember to have heard from the Left during the Manmohan Singh regime. This must be discarded and a vigorous people's movement created, like among the youth of the 60's to 80's.

When leaders are selected rather than elected, the rot sets in and over course of decades, the whole thing crumbles.

Reason why BJP is doing well and will do well is simple.
Anyone can join BJP and rise to top with their hard work. In most other parties you have no chance in hell.

 

[jamahir]

When leaders are selected rather than elected, the rot sets in and over course of decades, the whole thing crumbles.

Well, I don't know if the CPI-M Politburo is elected by the cadre in a direct-demoracy manner or selected by the non-Politburo leadership.

Reason why BJP is doing well and will do well is simple.
Anyone can join BJP and rise to top with their hard work. In most other parties you have no chance in hell.

The BJP's ideology is regressive, reactionary, repressive and narrow. So anyone with such a mindset can potentially rise to the top.

 

[pothead]

Well, I don't know if the CPI-M Politburo is elected by the cadre in a direct-demoracy manner or selected by the non-Politburo leadership.



The BJP's ideology is regressive, reactionary, repressive and narrow. So anyone with such a mindset can potentially rise to the top.

CPI politburo selection is so off the rocks that it would even Congress presidential sham to shame.

On other point, I strangely find almost all parties except BJP to be regressive, communal, repressive and extremely narrow and bigoted.
Having said that, my point was not to debate which parties are regressive.

My sole point was to point out how you need elected leaders to lead your party than selected ones. It's the natural selection in any field and politics is no exception. Sadly other parties are trying to make exception the norm and are paying huge prize for it.

 

[jamahir]

CPI politburo selection is so off the rocks that it would even Congress presidential sham to shame.

You and I don't actually know the selection procedure in the Politburo.

This is the crux of the matter.

On other point, I strangely find almost all parties except BJP to be regressive, communal, repressive and extremely narrow and bigoted.

You and I must have different dictionaries.

My sole point was to point out how you need elected leaders to lead your party than selected ones. It's the natural selection in any field and politics is no exception. Sadly other parties are trying to make exception the norm and are paying huge prize for it.

That I agree.

 

[noksss]

Agreed.



About three years ago, there was talk within the general Indian socialist movement of re-unification of all branches of the socialist/communist groups that had diverged in the 60's.

This will create a big platform.



Okay, I didn't know that.



Yes, especially with new youth leaders like Kanhaiya Kumar, Umar Khalid and Shehla Rashid.

Add to it, if there is re-unification.



I didn't understand this. Can you explain??



"Wait and watch" I remember to have heard from the Left during the Manmohan Singh regime. This must be discarded and a vigorous people's movement created, like among the youth of the 60's to 80's.

Are you telling us that

Shehla Rashid - Who called burhan wani a innocent
Umar Khalid - Who said Indian army didnt cremated the body of a dalit soilder
Kanhaiya Kumar - Who has failed more times in exams than rahul gandhis has in his elections

is gonna make communist relevant in the future

 

[jamahir]

Are you telling us that

Shehla Rashid - Who called burhan wani a innocent
Umar Khalid - Who said Indian army didnt cremated the body of a dalit soilder

If they indeed said those two things, can you provide the full context??

Kanhaiya Kumar - Who has failed more times in exams than rahul gandhis has in his elections

I don't know how many times Kanhaiya has failed in exams but I can point to one million people in the country who have scored 95+ percent in exams but are no good for any thing else, much less able to orate as finely as Kanhaiya.

is gonna make communist relevant in the future

Yes, because the previous leadership in the socialist/communist movement in India had become stagnant. These three are the much required fresh blood.

Plus, if they collaborate on a bigger platform nationally with other progressive groups such as AAP and 'Swaraj Abhiyan', and internationally with progressive movements in the Subcontinent. Sky is the limit.

 

[Nilgiri]

About three years ago, there was talk within the general Indian socialist movement of re-unification of all branches of the socialist/communist groups that had diverged in the 60's.

This will create a big platform.

Problem its easier said than done. Lot of these people split from each other for all kind of reasons, including ideologically.

The split between socialism and communism worldwide is quite an interesting one to read about too.

Also long term you got to think is it worth uniting to say grab power for a while, if you end up doing more long term harm to yourselves....and lose power/momentum for much much longer.

Okay, I didn't know that.

Yes she is getting more and more autocratic in WB.....both BJP and commies are suffering from it and also lot of common people are starting to vote against her over time. If she wasn't Bengali and courted the optics she has over longer time, she would have been booted out a while back.

I actually prefer the WB commies under jyoti and budhabeb compared to this lady. I never ever thought I would say it. @Joe Shearer

I didn't understand this. Can you explain??

I mean trying to insert more broadly what Indian people are feeling, there is much nationalist feeling rising (not in the negative sense but more a realisation that there are many strengths uniting as one entity, and that its worth promoting those over the weaknesses etc). But to me commie politburo is stuck in stasis of the old school communism that always promoted it as globalist movement over everything (including own country). They should focus more on optimising and adapting locally to make it work in India first, rather than blind copy the global manifesto.

In Soviet context, you can see what I mean if you read how the outlook of priorities transitioned from Lenin to Stalin (i.e to strengthen the country using national identity and priorities, rather than disposing that with notion of focusing external reset for others). SC Bose also was very much supposedly in favour of this kind of Stalinist model for India after hypothetical INA liberation.

You are fan of gaddafi etc, he also adapted it to local Libyan structures and society (using the oil wealth)....though it is real pity he got involved in geopolitical side that cost him his life and his country is torn apart now. It is sobering reminder of to focus on internal matters first and foremost, proving it works long term in your nation (even after you done)...well before trying to export elsewhere..... esp when you have the degree of micromanagement and economic lever control that leftist economic models create/enforce. But lefties I find don't appreciate the concept of time, responsibility and setting an example long term....everything is always brittle, thinking in short term (and feeling by that long term is addressed automatically) and thus things seem always very rushed to meet some paper plan or theory by resetting and restarting everything, rather than trying to learn the positives from whats there already. Human society is not very conducive to this format long term, esp if you have democracy and people can voice it, I think its high time Indian communists learn this....but they still seem stuck in the early cold war model of planned economy and society. Hence you see them keeping the same elite and same status quo (afraid to lose what little they got now).....they are not interested in trying new stuff out. But the only way to advance from their position imho, is to be more pragmatic, more adaptive and to put everything they got now on the line rather than be risk-averse like this. You got to play all in and play well when your chips are low....otherwise you just flicker and fade anyway given its too little and to late to sustain that way (by deluding yourself you are still in the game like before).

"Wait and watch" I remember to have heard from the Left during the Manmohan Singh regime. This must be discarded and a vigorous people's movement created, like among the youth of the 60's to 80's.

That is just one idea....many more need to be explored and experimented with. It cannot be just this because everyone is involved in youth politics and groups now....and they simply need to counter there too to respond to any strategy and still win....since they are far more dynamic in every other political realm than commies are.

I really think Indian commies are missing a real opportunity by staying as static edifice (in pretty much everything) like Mao....rather than thinking like Deng (i.e what aspects of communism actually apply to the society at hand rather than photocopying and enforcing that black and white)....i.e the broad spectrum of political realm/debate needs to be revisited genuinely, rather than same old concepts of youth-based revolution etc. Because India itself has changed big time since that period....whole game has changed and commies are running out of ideas or never had them to begin with....it cannot be just keep things static, and if you want to move do the same old thing you did way back with youth groups. Has to be much more broader and deeper than that, because politics now is very multi-faceted with much crossover (say how economy, social media and many non-youth things affect the youth forces.....which is very different to the environment of 70s etc)

 

[pothead]

You and I don't actually know the selection procedure in the Politburo.

This is the crux of the matter.

Well DUH..
That in a democracy we have no idea how a party elects it's members should be shocking. What is even shocking is that you do not seem to mind this fact!

You and I must have different dictionaries.

Not really.
We are prisoners of our bias, that is the most honest truth you will ever hear from anyone in your life.

I don't know how many times Kanhaiya has failed in exams but I can point to one million people in the country who have scored 95+ percent in exams but are no good for any thing else, much less able to orate as finely as Kanhaiya.

You are a big fan of socialism - nothing wrong in that. The less fortunate should and must be looked after.
Let me ask you a question you are trying to avoid. If able bodies like Kanhayya kumar and Shehla Rasheed are mooching off tax payers instead of contributing to the tax pot, how will Socialism work?

For Socialism to work, the most basic requirement if for those who can contribute MUST contribute.

If everyone is sitting on their asses and expect govt to feed them, like Kanhayya and Shehla are doing, that's not called socialism. There is a different name to it

 

[Robinhood Pandey]

You are a big fan of socialism - nothing wrong in that. The less fortunate should and must be looked after.
Let me ask you a question you are trying to avoid. If able bodies like Kanhayya kumar and Shehla Rasheed are mooching off tax payers instead of contributing to the tax pot, how will Socialism work?

For Socialism to work, the most basic requirement if for those who can contribute MUST contribute.

If everyone is sitting on their asses and expect govt to feed them, like Kanhayya and Shehla are doing, that's not called socialism. There is a different name to it

The fundamental problem with commies is that their dictionaries starts with R - Rights and not with D - Duties

@Nilgiri @ranjeet