Indian Navy News & Discussions

[sancho]

Navy Sea Harriers still going strong

 

[sudhir007]

Cochin Shipyard launches Abhinav, third in the series of twenty Aadesh class 50 meter triple water jet propelled Fast Patrol Vessels (FPV’s) being built for the Indian Coast Guard

 

[kurup]

‘Maintenance dredging may harm Kochi port’

Unsustainable maintenance dredging may seriously damage the Kochi port, a former officer with the Indian Navy has said.

Maintenance dredging involves removal of accumulated sediment.

In his book, ‘The Untold Story of a Coast,’ which was released last week, Commander (Retd.) John Jacob Puthur writes that Robert Bristow built the modern Kochi port in the 1920s in such a manner that will not have required maintenance dredging.

“This was until the mid 1980s, when the Navy built its South Jetty in contravention of the guidelines proposed by Bristow. It cut off the sediment supply to the once beautiful Fort Kochi Beach, and so it eroded away. There is no beach left now, but an ugly seawall. At the same time, the sediments that should have replenished the beach went on to accumulate at Vypeen Coast, to create a new landscape, the Puthuvypeen. Then the Vallarpadam Container Terminal came to be built, east of Vypeen,” he writes.

He states that dredging along the terminal will cut off the sediment supply further seaward, that is, to Puthuvypeen. “So instead of accreting further, Puthuvypeen will now erode. The process must have begun already. This could be environmentally dangerous because several tanks to store petroleum products have been built there. The tanks are also exposed to the strong salt-laden monsoon winds, which in turn could cause excessive corrosion. What if one of the tanks, due to excessive corrosion, cracks open and spews its deadly contents into the Kochi Port? Even Vallarpadam terminal lacks shelter from the strong monsoon winds. Therefore, handling containers may be a very difficult proposition during monsoon, which lasts up to four months, from May to September. As a combined outcome of the developments that began with the South Jetty, siltation has increased manyfold. Now the port has to carry out maintenance dredging right through the monsoon in order to function,” he writes.

In his foreword to the book, Admiral (Retd.) Arun Prakash, former Chief of Naval Staff, says that Puthur’s attempt to question conventional wisdom may evoke scepticism and indignation in some quarters or fuel a controversy. “But then, which iconoclastic seeker of truth did not elicit righteous anger and resentment from those who wished to cling to the known and the familiar,” he asks. Commander Puthur, who claims to have devoted the best part of his life to study the Indian coast, hails from Thrissur and is settled in Bangalore after his retirement.

An alumnus of the National Defence Academy, he was Chief Instructor of the National Institute of Hydrography, Goa, and had led, in 1998, a hydrographic surveying team to Antarctica.

The book discusses the Sethusamudram Shipping Canal project, Kalpasar Project, which envisages constructing a dam across the Gulf of Khambat, and many other coastal issues.

He told The Hindu that coastal erosion, generally attributed to phenomena such as monsoon, was mostly created by man.

“A coast will erode only when its sediment supply, invariably from land, is disrupted. It need not arise from action of waves. Waves and coasts have coexisted. Disruption of sediment supply to the coast happens mainly as a result of ill-conceived projects on the coast’s ports, coastal roads, dams and barrages on rivers,” he says.

He states that the first serious case of coastal erosion in Kerala happened at Chellanam in the 1960s. “It began in the very first monsoon that followed the construction of the Kochi-Chellanam Road. Only seawalls are built now to combat erosion. They do not offer long-term protection to an eroding coast. Coastal erosion will not stop until sediment supply is restored to the coast. But then, there are no easy solutions,” he observes.

The Kochi Port came into existence after the 1341 AD flood in Vembanad breached the coast at Kochi.

“This in turn wiped out the ancient port of Muziris, which operated since prehistoric times, at the mouth of Periyar. What if there is another flood in Vembanad, say, after a downpour, as it rained over Mumbai in 2005? The much- depleted Chellanam Coast could then breach. With this, the Kochi Port could cease to exist almost overnight. Are we prepared?” he asks.

Keywords: Kochi port, maintenance dredging, The Untold Story of a Coast, John Jacob Puthur, Robert Bristow, Kerala environment

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...edging-may-harm-kochi-port/article4819865.ece

 

[sancho]

Not directly related to Indian Navy, but interesting:

Russia Moves Mistral Stern Construction to France

The construction of the stern for the first Mistral helicopter carrier being built for the Russian Navy will be finished in France because a Russian shipyard cannot meet the deadline specified in the contract, a senior Russian defense official said Tuesday.

“We will have the whole stern made there [in France], we won't take risks so as not to delay the contract,” Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov told reporters on the sidelines of the Paris Air Show in Le Bourget.

Borisov said the decision had been made as it became evident that the Severnaya Verf shipyard in St. Petersburg, subcontacted to build the stern for the ship, was not going to meet the deadline...

Russia Moves Mistral Stern Construction to France | Defense | RIA Novosti


On the one hand it seems like we are not the only one that have problems to licence produce French vessels, but on the other hand, why can they take such actions to reduce the risk of delays, while we always wait and see?

 

[RPK]

MiG 29K in flight over the Indian islands

 

[kurup]

MiG 29K in flight over the Indian islands

Is it a twin seat trainer version ?? The back seat looks vacant .

 

[RPK]

 

[Abingdonboy]

My latest vid:

 

[Dillinger]

@sancho @Abingdonboy Sancho, you had opined that the Americans would probably link handing over the tech for catapult systems or even EMALS with the Super Hornets. IF that were to be true and IF we seriously considered such an offer what sort of issues would arise in terms of excessive fleet diversity and lack of commonality, logistics, maintainability? Also in light of the Hornet International road map (picture and video provided below) what would be the benefits if any? Its all highly speculative but Sancho seemed to be convinced that the Americans would lay forth such a condition.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Dillinger I think it is not unreasonable to assume that the US would dictate such conditions- just like the Russians did with the Viki (MIG-29Ks and KA-31s/28s). So they could very well dictate the entire air group ie helos (S-70B) and the fighters (SH/F-35C) and maybe even the AWACS (E-2D/V-22). Now this is a big "if" because, frankly speaking, the EMALS is advanced tech but I don't know whether the Americans have India over a barrel in the same way the Russians did with the Viki deal. But then again they do have a monopoly on both steam and EMALS catapult tech. What is interesting here though is that the IN has shown some strong interest in almost all this gear- V-22/E-2D, S-70B (in the final stages of the N-MRH deal and looks to be the front runner) and even F-35 (also remember the IN was breifef on the FireScout UAS). So it isn't as if such a package deal would be unfortunate for the IN, in fact it may well be a case of "many birds, one stone".

Coming to the fighter, I'm actually of the opinion that the IN is more interested int he F-35C for the IAC-2 than the SH. With the emergence of the J-31 and other 5th gen fighters who are said to be designed with carrier ops in mind, the IN can only be looking at next-gen fighter options for 2020 and beyond (IAC-2 and beyond).


I have non doubt the IN would much rather prefer a N-FGFA or N-AMCA fighter for the IAC-2 but God only knows when they will ever be ready for operational service. As such the F-35C is the only next-gen carrier fighter option available to the IN- the way I see it. It would make sense for the IN to go for the F-35C anyway without eve factoring in a EMALS package deal, if the N-FGFA and N-AMCA do not materilise in the next decade or so.

The F-18 SH is a damn good machine and the "Silent Hornet" with internal weapons pods, CFTs and improved avionics even more so. But I wouldn't bet on a SH going up against a VLO 5th gen fighter and coming out all that well.


A few Grolwers and a couple of F-35Cs would do nicely though!


If the IN can sway it this is the deal they should be looking to get:

-EMALS
-E-2D
-S-70B
-V-22 (for supplies/utility role)
-EA-18G Growlers


I'm sure I'm living in fantasy-land but oh well- a guy can dream!

Bracing myself for the onslaught from @sancho!

 

[Gessler]

@Dillinger I think it is not unreasonable to assume that the US would dictate such conditions- just like the Russians did with the Viki (MIG-29Ks and KA-31s/28s). So they could very well dictate the entire air group ie helos (S-70B) and the fighters (SH/F-35C) and maybe even the AWACS (E-2D/V-22). Now this is a big "if" because, frankly speaking, the EMALS is advanced tech but I don't know whether the Americans have India over a barrel in the same way the Russians did with the Viki deal. But then again they do have a monopoly on both steam and EMALS catapult tech. What is interesting here though is that the IN has shown some strong interest in almost all this gear- V-22/E-2D, S-70B (in the final stages of the N-MRH deal and looks to be the front runner) and even F-35 (also remember the IN was breifef on the FireScout UAS). So it isn't as if such a package deal would be unfortunate for the IN, in fact it may well be a case of "many birds, one stone".

Coming to the fighter, I'm actually of the opinion that the IN is more interested int he F-35C for the IAC-2 than the SH. With the emergence of the J-31 and other 5th gen fighters who are said to be designed with carrier ops in mind, the IN can only be looking at next-gen fighter options for 2020 and beyond (IAC-2 and beyond).


I have non doubt the IN would much rather prefer a N-FGFA or N-AMCA fighter for the IAC-2 but God only knows when they will ever be ready for operational service. As such the F-35C is the only next-gen carrier fighter option available to the IN- the way I see it. It would make sense for the IN to go for the F-35C anyway without eve factoring in a EMALS package deal, if the N-FGFA and N-AMCA do not materilise in the next decade or so.

The F-18 SH is a damn good machine and the "Silent Hornet" with internal weapons pods, CFTs and improved avionics even more so. But I wouldn't bet on a SH going up against a VLO 5th gen fighter and coming out all that well.


A few Grolwers and a couple of F-35Cs would do nicely though!


If the IN can sway it this is the deal they should be looking to get:

-EMALS
-E-2D
-S-70B
-V-22 (for supplies/utility role)
-EA-18G Growlers


I'm sure I'm living in fantasy-land but oh well- a guy can dream!

Bracing myself for the onslaught from @sancho!

By 2020, we'll be requiring all of E-2Ds (for CATOBAR-based AEW ops), S-70B (looks like it's winning),
V-22 (in a varied type of roles), and EMALS (if IN prefers them).

But I don't see any use for EA-18G or F-35C because we can fit existing MiG-29K/KUB or shore-based
MKIs with advanced electronic equipment while for fighter role, we will have naval FGFA.

Just my 2 paisa.

 

[Abingdonboy]

By 2020, we'll be requiring all of E-2Ds (for CATOBAR-based AEW ops), S-70B (looks like it's winning),
V-22 (in a varied type of roles), and EMALS (if IN prefers them).

But I don't see any use for EA-18G or F-35C because we can fit existing MiG-29K/KUB or shore-based
MKIs with advanced electronic equipment while for fighter role, we will have naval FGFA.

Just my 2 paisa.

The Growler is just in a class of one right now bro- maybe by 2020 the situation will be different. And, yes, if the N-FGFA is available by the time the IAC-2 is ready (2022-4) then- hell yeah, go for it! But if it is nowhere in sight and the N-AMCA is just as absent then you can't have a $2+ BN USD asset sat around with no fighters to fly off it- this would be the most absurd situation and the poorest of poor planning. The F-35C is a tried and test (by that time) platform and a safe, off the shelf, bet that will be ready to step into the breach- should the situation arise. Ideally I'd LOVE a N-FGFA line up on the IAC-2 and beyond with maybe even a mix of N-FGFAs and N-AMCAs.

 

[Gessler]

The Growler is just in a class of one right now bro- maybe by 2020 the situation will be different. And, yes, if the N-FGFA is available by the time the IAC-2 is ready (2022-4) then- hell yeah, go for it! But if it is nowhere in sight and the N-AMCA is just as absent then you can't have a $2+ BN USD asset sat around with no fighters to fly off it- this would be the most absurd situation and the poorest of poor planning. The F-35C is a tried and test (by that time) platform and a safe, off the shelf, bet that will be ready to step into the breach- should the situation arise. Ideally I'd LOVE a N-FGFA line up on the IAC-2 and beyond with maybe even a mix of N-FGFAs and N-AMCAs.

All I can say is that I honestly think a bunch of N-PAKFA prototypes will already be flying by the
time IAC-1 (Vikrant) is commissioned. By the time IAC-2 is commissioned, we can have all
the carrier-borne FGFAs we need!

 

[Abingdonboy]

All I can say is that I honestly think a bunch of N-PAKFA prototypes will already be flying by the
time IAC-1 (Vikrant) is commissioned. By the time IAC-2 is commissioned, we can have all
the carrier-borne FGFAs we need!

Let's hop bro! But I can only base my projections on what I know right now and there has been very little talk of the N-FGFA/PAK-FA to date and I am not eve sure whether the Indian side/HAL has built this design/requirement into the contract with the Russians- maybe @sancho knows more on this.

 

[Yogi]

By 2020, we'll be requiring all of E-2Ds (for CATOBAR-based AEW ops), S-70B (looks like it's winning),
V-22 (in a varied type of roles), and EMALS (if IN prefers them).

But I don't see any use for EA-18G or F-35C because we can fit existing MiG-29K/KUB or shore-based
MKIs with advanced electronic equipment while for fighter role, we will have naval FGFA.

Just my 2 paisa.

We r not getting IAC 2 before 2024-25 mark my words. So, no need to hurry for E-2Ds or V22s.

As far as EMALS is concerned ofcourse IN prefers them but its upto US as to whether they r ready to provide us with such sensitive hi-tech or not.

@Abingdonboy
Su30 MKI also has a version similar to Growler(it may not be as good as F-18Gs but its not that bad either) so don't u think IN won't be much interested in Growler as we r planning to permanently place Su30 MKIs on Andamans.