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Indian Navy Anti-Piracy Efforts

The Thai boat owner has given no proof to support his claim that it is indeed the IN that sunk his trawler.

For all practical purposes it could be a ploy to seek his insuarance money which he would otherwise be denied, if proven otherwise.

Unless somebody investigates the matter, it is simply going to be IN's word against the word of the boat owner. If it boils down to this the credibility of the IN would simply outweigh that of the boat owner.

It is highly naive and immature of you all to jump to the conclusion that the trawler sunk was an Indonesian fishin boat - not expected from members of such a high traffic defence forum. You guys are expected to express analytical observations that exhibits your expertise.
 
Erm, the owner of the trawler said that his ship was hijacked.

Also, this doesn't really change anything. The big story isn't the sinking of the ship (that was simply being in the right - or in this case the wrong - place at the right time) because pirate ship or not, a ship of that size cannot threaten a frigate unless the frigate refuses to retaliate - the big story is that the Navy Ship was patrolling the area, and the Indian Navy has the capability to do so.

Let's assume what you are claiming is true - which actually IS NOT true at all. Just for the discussion purpose, we assume it is true now.

Tell me how about the "mother ship" propaganda.

I would be happy to see my tax money being spend on my navy and they should go out and protect those Thai ships. Should they under fire again by the India Navy, I would like to see our Navy firing missiles on India's shitty capital and other population centers.

INDIA NAVY THAT ATTACK FISHING BOAT IN INTERNATIONAL WATER IS A CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION!
 
^^ Why don't we send some Mongols again to take care of the likes of you?

Remember the last time they came to your country?
 
INDIA NAVY THAT ATTACK FISHING BOAT IN INTERNATIONAL WATER IS A CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION!

Ya go on loud shouting that!!!!!!!!

The ship was hijacked and they fired first.
And who is giving the proof that it was a Thai ship.
The Thai owner must have sold the boat material himself, and then blamed IN for it. That can be a possibility.
You cannot say anything unless there is a proof.
 
The Somalian authorities have given permission to the Indian Navy to patrol within their territorial waters.

Also, this incident occurred in international waters so yes - its perfectly legal.

The pirates were armed with rocket launchers, which could have hit the Indian ship if it was within range.
Also, the possibility was always there that the pirates would attempt to hijack the frigate.

As I said, the Indian ship was fired at, so it had no choice but to retaliate. It would be an act of utter foolishness to simply stand and wait while the frigate is being fired at.


Somalian permission was given to protect Indian shipping and not murdering Thai citizens. Since hostages were involved the Indian ship should have backed of and informed the IMB.

That trigger happy Captain should be tried for murder. I hope the Thai Govt issues an Interpol Notice for murder against that idiot Capt. Being a seafarer myself my blood boils at that stupid Capt.

Regards
 
Somalian permission was given to protect Indian shipping and not murdering Thai citizens. Since hostages were involved the Indian ship should have backed of and informed the IMB.

That trigger happy Captain should be tried for murder. I hope the Thai Govt issues an Interpol Notice for murder against that idiot Capt. Being a seafarer myself my blood boils at that stupid Capt.

Regards

How do the INS Tabar know that Thai were inside. It was the pirate who were on the roof with grenade launchers threatening the Tabar. When the pirate fired and the boat trying to move towards the Tabar, it was fired-on as a self-defense which is standard procedure. Moreover, the boat sunk because of explosion on the boat as the pirates were storing the ammo and explosives on the boat. It is easy for you to sit here and give lectures, only people on the ground will know what it is to face the situation at the time.


Finally, what was Thai trawler doing so far away from Thailand
 
Somalian permission was given to protect Indian shipping and not murdering Thai citizens. Since hostages were involved the Indian ship should have backed of and informed the IMB.

That trigger happy Captain should be tried for murder. I hope the Thai Govt issues an Interpol Notice for murder against that idiot Capt. Being a seafarer myself my blood boils at that stupid Capt.

Regards

Have you even bothered to read what happened before passing judgement?

What a ridiculous post.
 
How do the INS Tabar know that Thai were inside. It was the pirate who were on the roof with grenade launchers threatening the Tabar. When the pirate fired and the boat trying to move towards the Tabar, it was fired-on as a self-defense which is standard procedure. Moreover, the boat sunk because of explosion on the boat as the pirates were storing the ammo and explosives on the boat. It is easy for you to sit here and give lectures, only people on the ground will know what it is to face the situation at the time.


Finally, what was Thai trawler doing so far away from Thailand

Dear SMG,

Do you post with knowledge or just like to blow your trumpet.

Do you know trawlers are chartered by poor Govts who cannot build them ?
Do you Ukranian trawlers operate in Indian waters and are based in Goa ?
Do you know Chinese trawlers operate of Maldives ?

Why did Tabar not blow up Stolt Valor when it had pirates and indian hostages onboard ?

You cannot check any boat in high seas unless you have a UN mandate ?

A trigger happy and bumbling Captain killed 10 pirates and murdered 15 Thais and must be tried at the world court.

Regards
 
India navy defends piracy sinking

The Indian navy has defended its action in sinking a ship near Somalia that maritime officials have confirmed was a hijacked Thai fishing boat.

The International Maritime Bureau said the Ekawat Nava 5 had been captured by pirates earlier in the day on 18 November and the crew was tied up.

One crewman was found alive after six days adrift but 14 are still missing.

The Indian navy said the ship was a pirate vessel in "description and intent" and had opened fire first.

India is one of several countries currently patrolling the Gulf of Aden, one of the world's busiest shipping lanes, amid increasing attacks by Somali pirates.

Almost 40 ships have been seized this year, the biggest the Saudi oil tanker, Sirius Star, which is still being held off the Somali coast.

'Exploding ammunition'

Indian navy spokesman, Commander Nirad Sinha, told AFP news agency: "The vessel was similar in description to what was mentioned in various piracy bulletins.

"The Indian navy ship asked them to stop for investigation. On repeated calls, the vessel responded by saying it would blow up the Indian ship," he said.

We hope that this incident won't affect the anti-piracy operation by the multi-coalition navies
Noel Choong,
International Maritime Bureau

"Pirates were seen roaming on the deck with rocket-propelled grenade launchers."

Commander Sinha insisted that the INS Tabar only opened fire after being fired upon, and that "exploding ammunition was also seen" on the target.

Noel Choong, who heads the International Maritime Bureau's (IMB) piracy reporting centre in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, confirmed the vessel was the Ekawat Nava 5.

"The Indian navy assumed it was a pirate vessel because they may have seen armed pirates on board the boat which had been hijacked earlier," Mr Choong told Associated Press.

"We are saddened with what has happened. It's an unfortunate tragedy. We hope that this incident won't affect the anti-piracy operation by the multi-coalition navies there," he said.

The owner of Ekawat Nava 5, Wicharn Sirichaiekawat, said his company had informed the IMB the boat had been hijacked and had asked for assistance.

The British navy confirmed the boat had been boarded and that any action could harm the crew.

The IMB sent an alert to other multi-coalition patrol vessels but Mr Choong said it was unclear whether the Indian vessel had received it as it had no direct IMB links.

Mr Choong urged more cooperation in the future.

Mr Wicharn said the boat had been headed from Oman to Yemen to deliver fishing equipment when it was approached by the pirates in two speedboats.

The Indian navy mistook the vessel for a pirate "mother ship", he said.

Mr Wicharn said he had learnt the fate of his trawler from a Cambodian crew member who had survived the bombardment and had been rescued by a passing ship after six days adrift in the Indian Ocean.

The sailor was now recovering in a hospital in Yemen, he said.

The survivor said all the crew were tied up except the captain and translator.

Mr Wicharn said the Thai foreign ministry had summoned the Indian ambassador to issue a complaint.
 
Ship it attacked was hostile, says Indian navy-India-The Times of India

Ship it attacked was hostile, says Indian navy
26 Nov 2008, 1344 hrs IST, AFP

NEW DELHI: Indian navy said on Wednesday that a ship it attacked and sank in the Gulf of Aden was hostile, after a maritime watchdog said the vessel was a Thai fishing trawler and not a pirate ship. ( Watch )

"The vessel was similar in description to what was mentioned in various piracy bulletins," an Indian navy spokesman, Commander Nirad Sinha said.

"The Indian navy ship asked them to stop for investigation on repeated calls. The vessel responded by saying it would blow up the Indian ship... Pirates were seen roaming on the deck with rocket-propelled grenade launchers."

He said the Indian navy only opened fire after being fired upon, and that "exploding ammunition was also seen" on the target.

The Indian navy won international praise for taking on the Somali pirates, who have turned the vital Suez Canal trade route into the world's most dangerous waterway.

But Noel Choong, head of the International Maritime Bureau (IMB) piracy reporting centre, said on Wednesday the vessel attacked was a Thai-operated fishing boat which had been seized by pirates off Yemen on November 18.

Another Indian navy official, speaking on condition he not be named, dismissed the IMB's account.

"Photographs of the attack and sinking of the vessel show a huge fireball. This shows there was ammunition carried on board, otherwise how could it have been such a great explosion?" the navy official said. "If it was a fishing trawler, it could not have resulted in such a huge explosion."

An Indian defence ministry official said: "They tried to attack us and our actions were in defence of that -- whichever the ship was."

"It was a pirate vessel in international waters and its stance was aggressive," the official said.
 
Why did Tabar not blow up Stolt Valor when it had pirates and indian hostages onboard ?

You cannot check any boat in high seas unless you have a UN mandate ?

A trigger happy and bumbling Captain killed 10 pirates and murdered 15 Thais and must be tried at the world court.

Regards

Do you understand the meaning of the word RETALIATE?????

Let me repeat:

Retaliate
Retaliate
Retaliate

Check the dictionary here: retaliate definition | Dictionary.com

Now that we all know the meaning of retaliate, let me repeat my sentence:

The INS Tabar Retaliated when fired at. That's what they were supposed to do and that's what they did.

No captain would risk his ship by simply standing by while he is being attacked by RPGs.

Oh, and please do tell me where it says that you cannot check any boat unless you have a UN Mandate.
 
India navy defends piracy sinking

The Indian navy has defended its action in sinking a ship near Somalia that maritime officials have confirmed was a hijacked Thai fishing boat.

The International Maritime Bureau said the Ekawat Nava 5 had been captured by pirates earlier in the day on 18 November and the crew was tied up.

One crewman was found alive after six days adrift but 14 are still missing.

The Indian navy said the ship was a pirate vessel in "description and intent" and had opened fire first.

India is one of several countries currently patrolling the Gulf of Aden, one of the world's busiest shipping lanes, amid increasing attacks by Somali pirates.

Almost 40 ships have been seized this year, the biggest the Saudi oil tanker, Sirius Star, which is still being held off the Somali coast.

'Exploding ammunition'

Indian navy spokesman, Commander Nirad Sinha, told AFP news agency: "The vessel was similar in description to what was mentioned in various piracy bulletins.

"The Indian navy ship asked them to stop for investigation. On repeated calls, the vessel responded by saying it would blow up the Indian ship," he said.

We hope that this incident won't affect the anti-piracy operation by the multi-coalition navies
Noel Choong,
International Maritime Bureau

"Pirates were seen roaming on the deck with rocket-propelled grenade launchers."

Commander Sinha insisted that the INS Tabar only opened fire after being fired upon, and that "exploding ammunition was also seen" on the target.

Noel Choong, who heads the International Maritime Bureau's (IMB) piracy reporting centre in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, confirmed the vessel was the Ekawat Nava 5.

"The Indian navy assumed it was a pirate vessel because they may have seen armed pirates on board the boat which had been hijacked earlier," Mr Choong told Associated Press.

"We are saddened with what has happened. It's an unfortunate tragedy. We hope that this incident won't affect the anti-piracy operation by the multi-coalition navies there," he said.

The owner of Ekawat Nava 5, Wicharn Sirichaiekawat, said his company had informed the IMB the boat had been hijacked and had asked for assistance.

The British navy confirmed the boat had been boarded and that any action could harm the crew.

The IMB sent an alert to other multi-coalition patrol vessels but Mr Choong said it was unclear whether the Indian vessel had received it as it had no direct IMB links.

Mr Choong urged more cooperation in the future.

Mr Wicharn said the boat had been headed from Oman to Yemen to deliver fishing equipment when it was approached by the pirates in two speedboats.

The Indian navy mistook the vessel for a pirate "mother ship", he said.

Mr Wicharn said he had learnt the fate of his trawler from a Cambodian crew member who had survived the bombardment and had been rescued by a passing ship after six days adrift in the Indian Ocean.

The sailor was now recovering in a hospital in Yemen, he said.

The survivor said all the crew were tied up except the captain and translator.

Mr Wicharn said the Thai foreign ministry had summoned the Indian ambassador to issue a complaint.


Thanks for proving my point that the Capt of INS Tabar is a bumbling fool. One call to IMB (which is manned 24 hrs) on his ship satphone would have been enough for him to realise that there may be hostages onboard.

Indian Navy should sack the idiot and the Thai Govt should approach the international courts for compensation as well as criminal trial of the Capt.

Regards
 
Dear SMG,

Do you post with knowledge or just like to blow your trumpet.

Do you know trawlers are chartered by poor Govts who cannot build them ?
Do you Ukranian trawlers operate in Indian waters and are based in Goa ?
Do you know Chinese trawlers operate of Maldives ?

Why did Tabar not blow up Stolt Valor when it had pirates and indian hostages onboard ?

You cannot check any boat in high seas unless you have a UN mandate ?

A trigger happy and bumbling Captain killed 10 pirates and murdered 15 Thais and must be tried at the world court.

Regards

Ok Mr. AN, here you go he UN resolution allowing for self-defence. Read the bold part.

Somalia’s Dangerous Waters

By Michael Radu
FrontPageMagazine.com | Tuesday, November 25, 2008

In the bad old days they used to hang them on the mast. Today the "international community" is worried about their "human rights." But they remain what they have always been--criminals of the high seas or, simply put, pirates. In recent years they have been active in a number of places--Nigeria, the Malacca Straits and, most blatantly, Somalia. The difference is that in the former two cases pirates are mostly freelancers, while in the latter case piracy is the national industry (together with the cultivation of khat, the Somali narcotic of choice). Piracy flourishes along the Somali coast because it is profitable and it can be done at small risk.

Somalia is not a "state" and even less a "nation." It is a legal fiction inhabited by a completely dysfunctional society. Even Somalis living abroad have unusually serious trouble integrating in the societies that gave them protection, as London (target of a major but failed terrorist attack by Somali immigrants in July 2005) and the states of Maine, Minnesota, and Nebraska have found out.

It should come as no surprise, then, that Somalia itself, especially its lawless Puntland region, serves as a haven for the pirates. As Mary Harper reported for the BBC: “Whenever word comes out that pirates have taken yet another ship in the Somali region of Puntland, extraordinary things start to happen. There is a great rush to the port of Eyl, where most of the hijacked vessels are kept by the well-armed pirate gangs. People put on ties and smart clothes. They arrive in land cruisers with their laptops, one saying he is the pirates’ accountant, another that he is their chief negotiator. Special restaurants have even been set up to prepare food for the crews of the hijacked ships.”

Reporter Jonathan Clayton, meanwhile, provided this portrait of life in a pirate city: "Activity in Eyl moves up a gear. Clan elders arrive, eager to broker a deal between their young clansmen, who use speedboats to board vessels, and shipping companies eager to pay a ransom for cargoes and staff. The ransoms are sometimes paid into foreign accounts in places such as the United Arab Emirates and even Western Europe, and may also be paid in cash through middlemen in neighboring Kenya. These have spawned more pirate gangs, armed with better weapons and better attack boats.”

Even Abdullahi Said O’Yusuf, the mayor of Eyl, has admitted that pirates use ransom payments to "buy houses in big cities" in different parts of the country. All of these activities mean local jobs, a share of the loot, delivered through clan elders, and strong popular support. It also involves the shrewd manipulation of Western respect for the law, a concept that does not exist locally.

Puntland claims to be autonomous from Somalia proper. But that is difficult to square with the fact that Abdillahi Yusuf, Puntland’s former “president,” now occupies the same position in the so-called Somali transitional government. It is also undermined by the fact that Puntland’s pirates have free reign to operate throughout the country. For instance, when a captured ship is judged to be politically sensitive, it is often kept at Haradheere in central Somalia, where anarchy is even more acute than in Puntland.

Equally troubling is that the pirates have found allies in international terrorists. As the Economist has pointed out, the risk of pirates working with or on behalf of jihadis and, for instance, blowing up oil tankers in the Indian Ocean, is very real. Already, Somalia’s pirates are said to be cooperating with the Islamist forces advancing toward the capital of Mogadishu.

Since the beginning of 2008, pirates operating off the Somali coast have seized 95 ships, the most spectacular being the Saudi-owned Sirius Star, a supertanker carrying 2 million barrels of oil, more than a quarter of Saudi Arabia’s daily exports and worth about $100 million. Insurance companies have so far paid hundreds of millions of dollars in ransoms for ships and crews, with the rate per ship varying from $300,000 to $1.5 million. As a result, insurance premiums have gone up by 10 percent and the increasingly frequent change of ship routes, from the Suez Canal to that around the Cape of Good Hope, is 30 percent longer and 20,000-30,000 Euros a day more expensive.

What could be done to eliminate Somali piracy? To begin with, continuing the present strategy (if that is the word) of occasionally escorting ships or occasionally chasing the pirates is both too costly and ineffective, as well as defensive. Convoys are complicated and time consuming, arming the small crews of large ships too risky and private security expensive and limited in quantity. The most rational long-term solution is the physical destruction of Somali piracy’s infrastructure and the elimination of its practitioners. That, however, is the easier part. The real problem lies in Western legal and cultural inhibitions that prevent the obvious military solution.

In military terms, the fact that Sirius Star was captured some 500 miles off the coast of Kenya demonstrates that effective control of the western Indian Ocean is not feasible, since it would have to cover over 2.5 million square miles. It also demonstrates that the only realistic and militarily sound solution is not defensive but offensive--eliminating pirate bases rather than protecting the 20,000 ships plying the Gulf of Aden and neighboring waters every year.

This can in fact be done. The naval assets are largely in place already, albeit misdeployed for political reasons. There is the Combined Task Force 150 (CTF), under the aegis of the U.S. Navy’s Fifth Fleet, with command rotating between France, Britain, the Netherlands, Canada and Pakistan. In addition, European countries (Germany, Greece, Lithuania, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain and France, soon to be joined by Norway) have set up Operation Atalanta, commanded from Northwood (UK) by a British rear admiral, with the in-area command rotating every four months among Greece, Spain and Netherlands.

Both of these forces, however, represent military operations by committee, with the inevitable problems associated with different national rules of engagement. A few months ago, for example, the French actually landed in Somalia and captured some pirates, while a British ship sunk a pirate boat and killed three attackers, as did an Indian Navy unit on November 19. That was not the case when a German frigate recently foiled attacks on two ships in the Gulf of Aden, using a helicopter to chase off pirates who fled in their speedboats. The frigate’s rules of engagement evidently prevented it from sinking the boats. As a result, the pirates will live to fight another day.

It should be feasible now to implement a permanent blockade of the Somali coast—i.e. that of Puntland and Somalia proper—since Somaliland seems capable of preventing pirates from operating from the area it controls. That means, first of all, the sinking of all speedboats along the coast, mostly through air attacks. Since speedboats are not and cannot be used for fishing, their existence is inherently related to piracy. Fishing dhows, on the other hand, although serving now as mother ships for the pirate speedboats, could be spared--within a few miles from the coast only.

Second, the known locations of pirate centers, places like Haradheere and Eyl, should be subjected to temporary occupation following amphibious landings, and known pirates there captured or otherwise eliminated. With their villas and boats destroyed and expensive cars confiscated, pirates will cease to serve as role models for other members of the clans involved, increase the risks of supporting them for locals, and at least temporarily limit the magnitude of corruption among Puntland politicians and their acolytes.

Once these two objectives are reached, air patrols along the coast should be sufficient to prevent the reestablishment of pirate lairs and means of activity. Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia, the other Gulf states, and Yemen should go beyond complaining about piracy and become serious in cracking down on the financiers and enablers of the pirates living in those countries.

As for the fate of captured pirates, they should be treated as international criminals with no citizenship, since Somalia/Puntland is not a functioning state but a political and legal black hole. The implication is that such individuals should be put on trial by whatever state captures them or, perhaps even better, by the states whose ships or cargo have been taken, or whose economies have been most affected by them. A few pirates tried in Saudi Arabia, Egypt or Iran, with the prospect of more to come, would certainly serve as a deterrent to others. The French idea of returning captured pirates to "Somali authorities," with promises of fair treatment, is simply unrealistic, precisely because it is based on the false premise that there is such a thing as "authority" in Somalia.

But where the French may have been unrealistic the British are worse. According to the Sunday Times, "The Royal Navy…..has been told by the Foreign Office not to detain pirates because doing so may breach their human rights. Warships patrolling pirate-infested waters, such as those off Somalia, have been warned that there is also a risk that captured pirates could claim asylum in Britain. The Foreign Office has advised that pirates sent back to Somalia could have their human rights breached because, under Islamic law, they face beheading for murder or having a hand chopped off for theft.”

Leaving aside the fact that Somali politicians benefit from piracy, and are thus unlikely to punish it, the very notion that the alternatives for captured pirates are immunity or life on welfare in Britain is the best demonstration why they feel emboldened.

And the absurdity goes further. Refugees International, a charitable NGO, not only believes that maritime patrols "do little to stem the motivation behind those attacks," but also that "the speed and resolve with which piracy has been addressed by the U.N. Security Council underlines Somalis’ sentiment that economic interests trump humanitarian concerns. The United States swiftly and sternly condemned the pirates, and yet remains silent over egregious war crimes." Furthermore, such organizations claim that criminal or jihadist attacks on its operations in Somalia "illustrate the consequences of unilateral strikes that endanger millions of Somalis who depend on international agencies for medical care and food aid while doing little to reduce terrorism."

Aside from fact that these allegedly "unilateral" strikes involve some 12 different navies, this is an interesting logic--striking at those who cause and caused the chaos in Somalia does not reduce terrorism but endangers the very population that contributed to that chaos and tolerates (when it does not benefit from) it. This reasoning of not provoking criminals because they may commit further crimes is worse than defeatist, it is positively enabling--and it keeps groups like Refugees International in business.

So far, the "international community" has responded to the scourge of Somali pirates as it usually does to major crises, slowly and ineffectively. UN Security Council resolution No. 1816 of June 2008 allows states to pursue pirates in Somali waters, while No. 1838 of October 2008 allows the use of "all necessary means" to stop piracy--except lethal force outside self-defense and land operations. Since repressing piracy is perhaps the only serious international issue on which all permanent members of the Security Council--as well as India, Iran, Saudi Arabia and just about every other country--agree, one could hope that sooner rather than later, a consensus will develop toward confronting the problem at its source--on land.

If not, the countries most affected and capable, such as the United States, should act as France already did and do what it takes, at the risk of howls from Refugees International and its supporters. National and international security and economic well-being are more important than outdated legal provisions and the sovereignty of a phantom state.
Michael Radu is Senior Fellow and Co - Chair, Center on Terrorism and Counterterrorism, at the Foreign Policy Research Institute in Philadelphia.
 
Do you understand the meaning of the word RETALIATE?????

Let me repeat:

Retaliate
Retaliate
Retaliate

Check the dictionary here: retaliate definition | Dictionary.com

Now that we all know the meaning of retaliate, let me repeat my sentence:

The INS Tabar Retaliated when fired at. That's what they were supposed to do and that's what they did.

No captain would risk his ship by simply standing by while he is being attacked by RPGs.

Do you know anything about how warships operate before talking about retaliation.

Do you know what is the range of an RPG ?

Do you anything about stand off distance ?

Do you know that you can't search ships in international waters ?

Do you what IMB stand for ?

Regards
 
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