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Indian Naval News --> IAC on track, Viraat being refurbished

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1 Dec 2007, 0343 hrs IST,Rajat Pandit,TNN

NEW DELHI: Problems with Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov notwithstanding, India in the next five to seven years will deploy two potent carrier battle groups (CBGs) to project power as well as act as a 'stabilising influence' in Indian Ocean Region (IOR) and beyond.

"We will have at least two CBGs, supported by long-range fighters and reconnaissance aircraft, modern destroyers and frigates for sea control, apart from submarines and coastal defence elements for sea denial," said Navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta, in an exclusive interview to TOI.

Though two CBGs might seem paltry compared to the 11 American CBGs or "carrier strike groups" deployed around the globe, they will be enough to protect India's growing strategic interests in the region stretching from Africa's eastern coast right up to Malacca Strait. The basic aim behind a powerful three-dimensional naval force, with the 'blue-water element' jumping from the present 40% to 60%, is to "keep our primary area of interest in IOR under adequate surveillance and to ensure our economic activity is not hindered by anyone", said Admiral Mehta.

But with Russia now demanding a staggering $1.2 billion more to refurbish Admiral Gorshkov, apart from pushing back its delivery date to 2012-2013, coupled with delays in other projects, is the Navy not fretting about its plans going haywire?

Yes, there is some worry. But there is also hope that problems with Russia will be sorted out soon. The 44,570-tonne Gorshkov, rechristened INS Vikramaditya, was initially supposed to join Indian Navy by August 2008 as per the $1.5-billion package deal signed in January 2004.

The deal includes 16 MiG-29K 'Fulcrum' supersonic fighters and a mix of Ka-31 and Ka-28 helicopters to operate from the carrier. India has already paid around $460 million of the $974 million earmarked for Gorshkov's refit.

"It's a fixed price contract arising out of an inter-governmental agreement. It's an obligation of the Russian government to provide us with the warship, with the characteristics laid down in the contract," said Admiral Mehta.

"They now tell us they have come across some unforeseen requirements in the modernisation work on the carrier...discussions are being held to arrive at some conclusion soon," he added. What he left unsaid was that while India would be ready to pay another $500 million or so extra, an amount like $1.2 billion will make the project simply unsustainable.

Though it's being seen as a bargaining ploy by Russia, there is also the possibility that India might scrap the entire deal if Moscow does not budge from its stand. Be that as it may, Navy is planning another refit of its aging but still powerful 28,000-tonne carrier INS Viraat in 2008 to take care of any contingency.

Then, of course, there is the 37,500-tonne indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC) being built at Cochin Shipyard. But its delivery is likely to be possible only by 2014-2015 or so, instead of the revised deadline of 2012.

The Navy chief, however, is not too much worried. "We are monitoring IAC's progress. It should not be delayed beyond 2012. The second IAC is already on the drawing board. At least three IACs are planned," he said.

Navy chief: Russia has to honour Gorshkov deal -India-The Times of India

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Navy to carry out refurbishment of INS Viraat
PTI
Friday, November 30, 2007 18:10 IST


MUMBAI: With indications of delay in the delivery of aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov from Russia, the Indian Navy will carry out a "normal" refurbishment of INS Viraat to extend its life, a top official said on Friday.

"There is a slippage of around one to one-and-half years in the delivery of Gorshkov due to various reasons. Virat has life in it and we will be carrying out a year-long refit starting early next year so that the ship is healthy till Gorshkov comes," Flag Officer, Commanding-in-chief Western Naval command J S Bedi told here.

On a question regarding the strategic implications of the delay, Bedi said, "We would have been much happier if the Gorshkov comes on time...the refit of a 44,000 tonne massive ship is not easy."

Bedi said no new military hardware, except a new air surveillance radar, will be installed on the nearly fifty year-old carrier built by the British.

"Many internal parts of the ship tend to get corroded due to the elements on the sea and it is important to take care of the same," he said.

Bedi said ten of the total fleet of thirteen Sea Harrier aircraft, capable of short take-off and vertical landing, used on the aircraft carrier are already undergoing regular refit.

The British have stopped production of the plane and once the job is done, we would be able to use them till the decommissioning of Viraat, Bedi said.

Russians have reportedly demanded an increased amount of money than the contractual one citing cost escalation for delivery of Gorshkov which was to be delivered by early 2010.

DNA - Mumbai - Navy to carry out refurbishment of INS Viraat - Daily News & Analysis
 
India plans to order 6 more submarines
Sunday, 02 December 2007

Admiral Surresh Mehta of the Indian Navy believes that India will require additional 6 more submarines with the 6 Scorpene submarines already ordered.

Admiral Sureesh Mehta said, "We are now actively looking at the second line of submarines after the Scorpenes. I think the global tender for the six new submarines should be floated in the next financial year (2008-2009)."

Indian Navy is seems to be interested in German HDW, Russian Amur, or additional French Scorpenes for its next order.

Indian Navy currently operates 16 conventional diesal-electric submarines. The diesal-electric submarines include 10 Russian Kilo-class, four German HDW-class and two Foxrot-class submarines.

India currently doesn't have a nuclear-powered submarine nor submarine-launched ballistic missile capability but Admiral Mehta says, "We have come to the final threshold. I think within two years or so, we should have that kind of a capability."

It was reported a while back that India is currently busy building her own nuclear-powered submarines in addition to leasing an Akula-II class nuclear powered submarine from Russia from end-2008 onwards for 10 years.

India currently has the indeginious program of building an advanced technology vessel (nuclear powered submarines perhaps) at Vishakapatnam where it hopes to get the first of the five ATVs to be done by 2010. India is also developing submarine launched ballistic missiles and submarine launched cruise missiles under a program called Sagarika.

When a question asked about Pakistani and Chinese navies modernization, Admiral Mehta said, "They have their national interests to protect, we have ours. Naval developments are not threat-specific, they are capability driven. We define our capabilities in tune with our national interests."

India plans to order 6 more submarines
 
Man doesn't anyone else think that india is spending a little too much money on this. They could be using this money to help build up their cities and improve things like health cear and education.

And anyway aside from wanting to be a blue water force what other reason does India have to grow so big? It does not make sence to me can anyone explain.
 
Man doesn't anyone else think that india is spending a little too much money on this. They could be using this money to help build up their cities and improve things like health cear and education.

And anyway aside from wanting to be a blue water force what other reason does India have to grow so big? It does not make sence to me can anyone explain.

One sentence: Have money, will spend.

There are separate funds from building cities and education, which are more than adequate. Of course, they are being misused by corrupt officials, but that is another story.
 
Man doesn't anyone else think that india is spending a little too much money on this. They could be using this money to help build up their cities and improve things like health cear and education.

Infra
India is spending 475bn$ to improve its infrastructure in the next 5 years.. building 100bn$ freight corridor b/w Delhi and Mumbai,
developing Mass Urbain Transport systems in half a dozen cities,
Developing SEZ's in several dozen locations..
almost Doubling its electrical generation capacity in the next 5 years
Govt plans from 2007-2012
• Ensure electricity connection to all villages and BPL households by 2009 and round-the-clock power by the end of the Plan.
• Ensure all-weather road connection to all habitation with population 1000 and above (500 in hilly and tribal areas) by 2009, and ensure coverage of all significant habitation by 2015.
• Connect every village by telephone by November 2007 and provide broadband connectivity to all villages by 2012.
• Provide homestead sites to all by 2012 and step up the pace of house construction for rural poor to cover all the poor by 2016-17."

Education
shall spend approx 20-30bn$per annum??(will check) on education.. as it is India has some of the world's finest educational establishments like IIT's, IIM's etc. which are being increased. and free education for all and incentives are given to families sending girls to school.. etc.. problems are rural areas.. it is a social thing.. will take time..
Goals of the govt from 2007-2012
• Reduce dropout rates of children from elementary school from 52.2% in 2003-04 to 20% by 2011-12.
• Develop minimum standards of educational attainment in elementary school, and by regular testing monitor effectiveness of education to ensure quality.
• Increase literacy rate for persons of age 7 years or more to 85%.
• Lower gender gap in literacy to 10 percentage points.
• Increase the percentage of each cohort going to higher education from the present 10% to 15% by the end of the 11th Plan."


Healthcare
Govt health care is crappy.. but Indians are some of the finest doctors and WIth big co.'s investing in the healthcare business it is already on a massive boom.. alternative medicine and preventive care is also very big in India.. such as the Unani System, Ayurveda, yoga etc.
Goals of the govt from 2007-2012
"Health • Reduce infant mortality rate (IMR) to 28 and maternal mortality ratio (MMR) to 1 per 1000 live births.
• Reduce Total Fertility Rate to 2.1.
• Provide clean drinking water for all by 2009 and ensure that there are no slip-backs by the end of the 11th Plan.
• Reduce malnutrition among children of age group 0-3 to half its present level.
• Reduce anemia among women and girls by 50% by the end of the 11th Plan."



And anyway aside from wanting to be a blue water force what other reason does India have to grow so big? It does not make sence to me can anyone explain.

1 India has 2.54mn sq km EEZ with vital oil and gas assets..
2 India depends mostly on sea trade
3 India wants to project its power in the Indian Ocean, as being the most dominant navy of the region to counter growing Chinese influences and to protect ocean trade routes
4 Many countries look towards India to protect their seaborne vessels to protect them from pirates and other rogue elements and provides us greater influence over them..
5 Having a strong Navy with multipe CBG's/CSG's is essential to superpower status and help India secure permanent seat at UN SC..
6 It shall lessen land based rivalries with China and Pakistan
7 signals secure and confident India
8 is for the collective good for all and improves stability in teh region
9 variety of others ... ;)
 
I dont see how buying big ticket weapons will improve the "stability" in the region. Its one of those phony reasons that no one buys. The big ticket items only increase big ticket items on other sides (arms race), plus what India gets at the end of the day is always countered is what really matters.
 
I dont see how buying big ticket weapons will improve the "stability" in the region. Its one of those phony reasons that no one buys. The big ticket items only increase big ticket items on other sides (arms race), plus what India gets at the end of the day is always countered is what really matters.

I seriously doubt that Pakistan will be operating two carrier groups anywhere in the near future.
 
I dont see how buying big ticket weapons will improve the "stability" in the region. Its one of those phony reasons that no one buys. The big ticket items only increase big ticket items on other sides (arms race), plus what India gets at the end of the day is always countered is what really matters.

Same logic.. China, India and Pakistan possessing nukes has actually helped stability..
the rumour of nukes in Israel has helped maintain somewhat peace in ME..

the same way having a very powerful regional Navy will not let others make mischief... namely China and Pakistan.. of course assuming we are responsible :angel:
 
Same logic.. China, India and Pakistan possessing nukes has actually helped stability..
the rumour of nukes in Israel has helped maintain somewhat peace in ME..

the same way having a very powerful regional Navy will not let others make mischief... namely China and Pakistan.. of course assuming we are responsible :angel:

And of course thats a very childish statement.

Dont compare nukes with carriers when i am talking about its relevance in arms race. It exists. Its counter will always exist, and its projection of power isn't ecnomical. There are much more economical ways to project power and get the worlds attention.

Besides, Viraat is an old horse scrap metal.. and when i see IAC i will believe it. Until then statements to boost regional power ego as it cannot be countered will help.
 
And of course thats a very childish statement.
Dont compare nukes with carriers when i am talking about its relevance in arms race. It exists. Its counter will always exist, and its projection of power isn't ecnomical. There are much more economical ways to project power and get the worlds attention.

I think having AC's is one of the best ways of projecting power!! I don't even see an alternative.. for India to project regional and super-regional power..

Besides, Viraat is an old horse scrap metal..

It is old no doubt.. but many other countries are operating old Aircraft carriers.. I think with routine refits it will continue to serve its purpose.. and can be kept till Vikramaditya or IAC are commissioned..

and when i see IAC i will believe it.

Suit urself..

Until then statements to boost regional power ego as it cannot be countered will help.

I think this is hardly a cause of celebration.. the Naval Chief has only reiterated what was already planned.. and he has given a depressing news that Vikramaditya may never happen.. :hitwall:
 
India is a Poverty striken country. On my recent visit to Mumbai and Delhi I have seen people wearing pant and shirts digging in Garbage for Food items. God knows best as to what the people would be going through in small cities. India wants to be a super power at the Expense of it's people. Corruption is all over, Rs.10.oo can do a miracle.
All this buildup will go to waste to be a Super Power as another force is eyeing on India.
 
And of course thats a very childish statement.

Dont compare nukes with carriers when i am talking about its relevance in arms race. It exists. Its counter will always exist, and its projection of power isn't ecnomical. There are much more economical ways to project power and get the worlds attention.

Besides, Viraat is an old horse scrap metal.. and when i see IAC i will believe it. Until then statements to boost regional power ego as it cannot be countered will help.

Dear Sir, It would be much more helpful and economical if you spacify the alternative to project the power as well as to attract world attention.

Offcourse, Viraat is pieace of Junk, but right now there is no creadible offense have been in existance so far to inflict any damage to it as far as Since if we take into account South Asian arms equation.
 
India is a Poverty striken country. On my recent visit to Mumbai and Delhi I have seen people wearing pant and shirts digging in Garbage for Food items. God knows best as to what the people would be going through in small cities.

spare the sympathies.. :hitwall:
why don't you donate some money...:angel:

India wants to be a super power at the Expense of it's people. Corruption is all over,

our defence spending relative to GDP is ~1.8-2%

Rs.10.oo can do a miracle.

really??

All this buildup will go to waste to be a Super Power as another force is eyeing on India.

what??
 
Well if you read comments of Admiral Mehta.

When a question asked about Pakistani and Chinese navies modernization, Admiral Mehta said, "They have their national interests to protect, we have ours. Naval developments are not threat-specific, they are capability driven. We define our capabilities in tune with our national interests." "

India plans to order 6 more submarines

I think it is quite understandable. Its their right. We have our rights. Chinese have theirs.
 

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