Secularpakistani
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Hey PDF members) This is going to be a bit long so please stay with me and before commenting carefully read the whole thread and then comment.
I am gonna show you indian lies about their so called Kargil victory,operation vijay(1999) and their claims about capturing Tiger hill 5353 the highest and most strategically important peak with evidences gathered from very neutral sources and none of them came from any pakistani.
Evidence no 1:-
The below paragraph is extracted from the wikipedia page about the tiger hill
"By 6:50 am, on 4 July, the Indians re-captured Tiger Hill (Point 4660). Later on, Indian media reported that Point 5353, a strategically important peak in the Dras sector, was still under Pakistan's control. After this, the Indian Army said that the peak had never held by India, and was not on its side of the LoC. Indian army however continued efforts for retaking it, till 2003 when a ceasefire agreement was signed between Pakistan and India. Pakistan consolidated its position on Point 5353 by constructing concrete bunkers and a road from Benazir Post, the base of the peak to Pakistan's rear headquarters at Gultari"
Source:
Tiger Hill, Kargil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Evidence no 2:-
Standing tall and dominating the famous Tiger Hill on the Line of Control (LoC) is a grim reminder of the Kargil war. Point 5353, the highest peak in the region which has a clear view of the National Highway 1 D, remains occupied by Pakistan even a decade after the battle.
While the point is clearly on the Indian side of the LoC, it remains in Pakistani control which has fortified it with reinforced bunkers and has even built a special road nearby to carry up supplies for soldiers.
The Indian Army, which made several unsuccessful attempts to occupy the post after the Kargil war, has since given up the post as "untenable" given the geography of the region that makes it fairly easy for Pakistani troops to climb.
What makes Point 5353 so valuable for the two armies is that it has a clear view of the national highway that connects the Kashmir valley with Kargil. The main reason the Army retaliated hard to the Pakistani intrusion in 1999 was that disruption of traffic on the road would cut off supplies to Ladakh and the Siachen glacier.
While officers say that Point 5353 is surrounded by three Indian posts, including Point 5240 and any action from there would be neutralised, the fact remains that artillery observers from the post can easily direct fire on a 25 km stretch of the national highway.
Besides, the most dominating feature in the region has a clear view of the Tiger Hill and surrounding areas. Sources say Pakistan has constructed concrete bunkers at the location and have a special supply base on their side of the LoC that has substantial reinforcements.
Several attempts to dislodge Pakistani troops from the posts with the help of artillery fire remained unsuccessful till action became impossible after the 2003 ceasefire. The Army has since given up the option of retaking the post in the larger interest of peace in the area.
Even a decade after the war and several revelations by Pakistani officers that the main aim of the intrusion was to cut off the strategic Drass-Kargil highway so that supplies to Siachen would dry up, the road remains under the threat of enemy fire. Besides Drass and Point 5353, several other stretches of the road at places like Kaksar are under Pakistani observation.
While a lot of papers were moved after the Army said that an alternative all-weather road to Leh and Siachen is urgently required, work on the ground remains extremely slow. Efforts are on to make the Manali-Leh highway into an all-weather road but even the most positive estimates say the strategic tunnel at Rohtang pass will take at least seven more years to complete.
Supplies for Leh and the Siachen glacier follow two basic routes — through the Rohtang pass on the Manali-Leh highway or through the Zojila pass on the Srinagar-Leh highway 1 D. While the 13,000 feet Rohtang pass remains cut off longer in winters, the 11,500 feet Zojila pass generally opens earlier and is used to carry supplies for Army units.
What is worrisome is that even after a decade of the Kargil war, highway 1 D remains under the threat of being cut off by enemy fire.
Source:
Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied - Indian Express
Evidence no 3 :-
By Praveen Swami
NEW DELHI, JUNE 29 . Indian soldiers had attempted to capture Point 5353, a strategically-important peak in the Dras sector, in the first days of the Kargil war. New evidence that such an assault took place blows apart contradictory claims by the former Defence Minister, George Fernandes, and top military officials that the feature does not lie on the Indian side of the Line of Control.
An investigation by The Hindu has gained access to orders issued to Major Navneet Mehra of the 16 Grenadiers Regiment, ordering him to lead an assault on Point 5353, so named for its altitude in metres. It is the highest feature in the Dras sector, and allows the Pakistani troops to observe National Highway 1A, as well as an alternative Dras-Kargil route that is now under construction.
Major Mehra's men were asked to evict the Pakistani intruders on Point 5353 by 6 a.m. on May 18, 1999. The officer's plan was to set up three fire bases along the base of the peak to support the infantry assault by two groups.
Although backed by some artillery, both groups faced a difficult climb, under direct fire from both the Pakistani positions on Point 5353 and Point 5165.
However, Major Mehra's despatches note, his commanding officer, Col. Pushpinder Oberoi, gave specific orders "to go for it at any cost." Col. Oberoi's troops failed to execute his instructions. Ill-equipped for the extreme cold, and not properly acclimatised to the altitude, the troops withdrew after suffering 13 casualties. The attack was finally called off at 3 a.m. on May 19, 1999.
After news broke that the Pakistani troops occupied Point 5353, the Indian Army denied that the peak had ever been held by India, or, indeed, was on its side of the LoC. A press release issued on August 11, 2000, asserted that the "point was never under our control either before or after Operation Vijay in Kargil." Mr. Fernandes seemed to disagree. Asked about the status of Point 5353 at a subsequent press conference, he insisted that "every inch of the land is under our control."
Mr. Fernandes' subsequent statements added to the confusion. Speaking to an audience in Mumbai, he said "Point 5353 is the point over which the LoC goes. Fact is, our troops had never occupied that."
However, on January 1, 2001, the Press Information Bureau issued a photograph of Mr. Fernandes standing on what it claimed was Point 5353. Later, the PIB was forced to sack a junior staffer for "an administrative error."
War-time media reports, based on Army briefings, suggest that further efforts to take the peak were made from July 21, 1999, well after the fighting had officially ended. While these efforts were unsuccessful, the available evidence suggests that then-56 Brigade Commander Amar Aul responded by occupying two heights on the Pakistani side of the LoC, 4875 and 4251.
sSubsequently, the local commanders hammered out a deal, where both agreed to leave points 5353, 5240, 4251 and 4875 unoccupied.
Towards October-end, for reasons still not clear, the 16 Grenadiers were ordered to take Point 5240 and the 1-3 Gurkha Rifles Point 5353. While the 16 Grenadiers' attack proceeded as planned, despite bad weather, the 1-3 Gurkha Rifles, for reasons still not clear, never made their way up to Point 5353. When the Pakistani troops detected the Indian presence on 5240, they promptly reoccupied Point 5353.
Interestingly, however, the 16 Grenadiers' records on the Point 5353 assault refer to Point 5353 as "a minor objective." So too, do entries in Col. Oberoi's confidential service records. This assessment was vindicated during the artillery clashes in 2001-2002, when the Pakistani observation posts on Point 5353 were unable to bring accurate fire to bear on either the highway or nearby Indian positions. The Indian troops were able to tie down the Pakistani position with accurate fire, rendering it near-impossible for its superior altitude to be used to good effect.
Correction
The height of Tiger Hill is 4,660 metres (i.e., Point 4660), not 4,165 metres as reported in these columns on Tuesday.
Source:
The Hindu : National : Commander ordered capture of Point 5353 in Kargil war
Evidence no 4:-
Now see what their own indian media is saying about tiger hill 5353.
Conclusion:
During and even after the kargil war for years indian army tried it,s best to recapture the tiger hill 5353 but their every single effort was unsuccessful and humiliating .They tried their best to hide this from general indian public but years later finally this shocking news made them sad and frustrated.
Yes i agree indian army managed to occupy most of positions liberated by pakistan army because of the international pressure exerted on pakistan ,we had to withdraw our army from those liberated positions.But pakistan fully crossed into their territory and managed to grab the most strategic part of land but indians neither dared to cross into our LOC and they failed to regain their captured indian soil.Does that sounds like an indian victory?How can these indians call that as operation vijay when they were failed to get back their land ?
At the end of the day for indians kargil war was all about getting invaded by pakistan and loosing the most strategic peak.Pakistan gained a land but india lost the land.
And these hypocrite indians say we Pakistanis we have been told lies about all wars against india and in reality they are day dreaming at best.But now we can see why indian elite class like politicians etc hate pakistan too much and everyday they are planning to destabilize pakistan unlike the average indains they know the facts about indo pak wars.
Finally i laugh my *** off when these indians say that they won all wars against china and pakistan
1948 war-Indians tried to annex the whole kashmir but ended up loosing 35% of kashmir to pakistan.Does that an indian victory?
1962 war-Again they ended up loosing territory to china.Does that an indian victory?
1965 war-Yes it fought over kashmir but these indians were dreaming about capturing lahore but pakistan fought well and defended itself from the enemy 7 times bigger.Both sides captured some land but soon after the war according to the agreement both sides returned the captured land.That whole war was the stalemate (withdraw). How can these indians call that an indian victory?
1971 war-Yes pakistan got badly defeated because these indians took advantage of our civil war in east pakistan .East pakistan being surrounded by india was having some serious supply problems and pakistani armed forces there were seriously outnumbered as compared to indian armed forces.After carefully accessing the situation these indians took the action and only succeeded in this war because of pakistan,s supply and internal problems of that time.If there were no such problems these indians would have faced the same tough time they faced in three other wars.
1999 war-These indians got invaded and lost the most important strategic battle field called tiger hill 5353.Does that an indian victory?
And shame to people like najam sethi who distort facts and try to manipulate minds of other people about the kargil war.Indeed this Geo channel should be banned permanently who are working on their dirty agenda and have no little respect for our brave soldiers who sacrificed their lives for our motherland.
These indians should come to their senses and realize that they are living in 21st century and in these modern times you cannot oppress someone for a long period of time .They have simply mistaken if they think they can get away easily without solving this kashmir issue.Whether it,s about slowly loosing kashmiri territory like tiger hill 5353 or the complete withdrawal of indian army from jammu & kashmir at the end of the day kashmir is not and will never become part of india and we pakistanis reserve the right to take it by force.
Regards
Tahir
@hussain0216 @DESERT FIGHTER @Zarrar Alvi @Windjammer @Nuri Natt @JOEY TRIBIANI
I am gonna show you indian lies about their so called Kargil victory,operation vijay(1999) and their claims about capturing Tiger hill 5353 the highest and most strategically important peak with evidences gathered from very neutral sources and none of them came from any pakistani.
Evidence no 1:-
The below paragraph is extracted from the wikipedia page about the tiger hill
"By 6:50 am, on 4 July, the Indians re-captured Tiger Hill (Point 4660). Later on, Indian media reported that Point 5353, a strategically important peak in the Dras sector, was still under Pakistan's control. After this, the Indian Army said that the peak had never held by India, and was not on its side of the LoC. Indian army however continued efforts for retaking it, till 2003 when a ceasefire agreement was signed between Pakistan and India. Pakistan consolidated its position on Point 5353 by constructing concrete bunkers and a road from Benazir Post, the base of the peak to Pakistan's rear headquarters at Gultari"
Source:
Tiger Hill, Kargil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Evidence no 2:-
Standing tall and dominating the famous Tiger Hill on the Line of Control (LoC) is a grim reminder of the Kargil war. Point 5353, the highest peak in the region which has a clear view of the National Highway 1 D, remains occupied by Pakistan even a decade after the battle.
While the point is clearly on the Indian side of the LoC, it remains in Pakistani control which has fortified it with reinforced bunkers and has even built a special road nearby to carry up supplies for soldiers.
The Indian Army, which made several unsuccessful attempts to occupy the post after the Kargil war, has since given up the post as "untenable" given the geography of the region that makes it fairly easy for Pakistani troops to climb.
What makes Point 5353 so valuable for the two armies is that it has a clear view of the national highway that connects the Kashmir valley with Kargil. The main reason the Army retaliated hard to the Pakistani intrusion in 1999 was that disruption of traffic on the road would cut off supplies to Ladakh and the Siachen glacier.
While officers say that Point 5353 is surrounded by three Indian posts, including Point 5240 and any action from there would be neutralised, the fact remains that artillery observers from the post can easily direct fire on a 25 km stretch of the national highway.
Besides, the most dominating feature in the region has a clear view of the Tiger Hill and surrounding areas. Sources say Pakistan has constructed concrete bunkers at the location and have a special supply base on their side of the LoC that has substantial reinforcements.
Several attempts to dislodge Pakistani troops from the posts with the help of artillery fire remained unsuccessful till action became impossible after the 2003 ceasefire. The Army has since given up the option of retaking the post in the larger interest of peace in the area.
Even a decade after the war and several revelations by Pakistani officers that the main aim of the intrusion was to cut off the strategic Drass-Kargil highway so that supplies to Siachen would dry up, the road remains under the threat of enemy fire. Besides Drass and Point 5353, several other stretches of the road at places like Kaksar are under Pakistani observation.
While a lot of papers were moved after the Army said that an alternative all-weather road to Leh and Siachen is urgently required, work on the ground remains extremely slow. Efforts are on to make the Manali-Leh highway into an all-weather road but even the most positive estimates say the strategic tunnel at Rohtang pass will take at least seven more years to complete.
Supplies for Leh and the Siachen glacier follow two basic routes — through the Rohtang pass on the Manali-Leh highway or through the Zojila pass on the Srinagar-Leh highway 1 D. While the 13,000 feet Rohtang pass remains cut off longer in winters, the 11,500 feet Zojila pass generally opens earlier and is used to carry supplies for Army units.
What is worrisome is that even after a decade of the Kargil war, highway 1 D remains under the threat of being cut off by enemy fire.
Source:
Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied - Indian Express
Evidence no 3 :-
By Praveen Swami
NEW DELHI, JUNE 29 . Indian soldiers had attempted to capture Point 5353, a strategically-important peak in the Dras sector, in the first days of the Kargil war. New evidence that such an assault took place blows apart contradictory claims by the former Defence Minister, George Fernandes, and top military officials that the feature does not lie on the Indian side of the Line of Control.
An investigation by The Hindu has gained access to orders issued to Major Navneet Mehra of the 16 Grenadiers Regiment, ordering him to lead an assault on Point 5353, so named for its altitude in metres. It is the highest feature in the Dras sector, and allows the Pakistani troops to observe National Highway 1A, as well as an alternative Dras-Kargil route that is now under construction.
Major Mehra's men were asked to evict the Pakistani intruders on Point 5353 by 6 a.m. on May 18, 1999. The officer's plan was to set up three fire bases along the base of the peak to support the infantry assault by two groups.
Although backed by some artillery, both groups faced a difficult climb, under direct fire from both the Pakistani positions on Point 5353 and Point 5165.
However, Major Mehra's despatches note, his commanding officer, Col. Pushpinder Oberoi, gave specific orders "to go for it at any cost." Col. Oberoi's troops failed to execute his instructions. Ill-equipped for the extreme cold, and not properly acclimatised to the altitude, the troops withdrew after suffering 13 casualties. The attack was finally called off at 3 a.m. on May 19, 1999.
After news broke that the Pakistani troops occupied Point 5353, the Indian Army denied that the peak had ever been held by India, or, indeed, was on its side of the LoC. A press release issued on August 11, 2000, asserted that the "point was never under our control either before or after Operation Vijay in Kargil." Mr. Fernandes seemed to disagree. Asked about the status of Point 5353 at a subsequent press conference, he insisted that "every inch of the land is under our control."
Mr. Fernandes' subsequent statements added to the confusion. Speaking to an audience in Mumbai, he said "Point 5353 is the point over which the LoC goes. Fact is, our troops had never occupied that."
However, on January 1, 2001, the Press Information Bureau issued a photograph of Mr. Fernandes standing on what it claimed was Point 5353. Later, the PIB was forced to sack a junior staffer for "an administrative error."
War-time media reports, based on Army briefings, suggest that further efforts to take the peak were made from July 21, 1999, well after the fighting had officially ended. While these efforts were unsuccessful, the available evidence suggests that then-56 Brigade Commander Amar Aul responded by occupying two heights on the Pakistani side of the LoC, 4875 and 4251.
sSubsequently, the local commanders hammered out a deal, where both agreed to leave points 5353, 5240, 4251 and 4875 unoccupied.
Towards October-end, for reasons still not clear, the 16 Grenadiers were ordered to take Point 5240 and the 1-3 Gurkha Rifles Point 5353. While the 16 Grenadiers' attack proceeded as planned, despite bad weather, the 1-3 Gurkha Rifles, for reasons still not clear, never made their way up to Point 5353. When the Pakistani troops detected the Indian presence on 5240, they promptly reoccupied Point 5353.
Interestingly, however, the 16 Grenadiers' records on the Point 5353 assault refer to Point 5353 as "a minor objective." So too, do entries in Col. Oberoi's confidential service records. This assessment was vindicated during the artillery clashes in 2001-2002, when the Pakistani observation posts on Point 5353 were unable to bring accurate fire to bear on either the highway or nearby Indian positions. The Indian troops were able to tie down the Pakistani position with accurate fire, rendering it near-impossible for its superior altitude to be used to good effect.
Correction
The height of Tiger Hill is 4,660 metres (i.e., Point 4660), not 4,165 metres as reported in these columns on Tuesday.
Source:
The Hindu : National : Commander ordered capture of Point 5353 in Kargil war
Evidence no 4:-
Now see what their own indian media is saying about tiger hill 5353.
Conclusion:
During and even after the kargil war for years indian army tried it,s best to recapture the tiger hill 5353 but their every single effort was unsuccessful and humiliating .They tried their best to hide this from general indian public but years later finally this shocking news made them sad and frustrated.
Yes i agree indian army managed to occupy most of positions liberated by pakistan army because of the international pressure exerted on pakistan ,we had to withdraw our army from those liberated positions.But pakistan fully crossed into their territory and managed to grab the most strategic part of land but indians neither dared to cross into our LOC and they failed to regain their captured indian soil.Does that sounds like an indian victory?How can these indians call that as operation vijay when they were failed to get back their land ?
At the end of the day for indians kargil war was all about getting invaded by pakistan and loosing the most strategic peak.Pakistan gained a land but india lost the land.
And these hypocrite indians say we Pakistanis we have been told lies about all wars against india and in reality they are day dreaming at best.But now we can see why indian elite class like politicians etc hate pakistan too much and everyday they are planning to destabilize pakistan unlike the average indains they know the facts about indo pak wars.
Finally i laugh my *** off when these indians say that they won all wars against china and pakistan
1948 war-Indians tried to annex the whole kashmir but ended up loosing 35% of kashmir to pakistan.Does that an indian victory?
1962 war-Again they ended up loosing territory to china.Does that an indian victory?
1965 war-Yes it fought over kashmir but these indians were dreaming about capturing lahore but pakistan fought well and defended itself from the enemy 7 times bigger.Both sides captured some land but soon after the war according to the agreement both sides returned the captured land.That whole war was the stalemate (withdraw). How can these indians call that an indian victory?
1971 war-Yes pakistan got badly defeated because these indians took advantage of our civil war in east pakistan .East pakistan being surrounded by india was having some serious supply problems and pakistani armed forces there were seriously outnumbered as compared to indian armed forces.After carefully accessing the situation these indians took the action and only succeeded in this war because of pakistan,s supply and internal problems of that time.If there were no such problems these indians would have faced the same tough time they faced in three other wars.
1999 war-These indians got invaded and lost the most important strategic battle field called tiger hill 5353.Does that an indian victory?
And shame to people like najam sethi who distort facts and try to manipulate minds of other people about the kargil war.Indeed this Geo channel should be banned permanently who are working on their dirty agenda and have no little respect for our brave soldiers who sacrificed their lives for our motherland.
These indians should come to their senses and realize that they are living in 21st century and in these modern times you cannot oppress someone for a long period of time .They have simply mistaken if they think they can get away easily without solving this kashmir issue.Whether it,s about slowly loosing kashmiri territory like tiger hill 5353 or the complete withdrawal of indian army from jammu & kashmir at the end of the day kashmir is not and will never become part of india and we pakistanis reserve the right to take it by force.
Regards
Tahir
@hussain0216 @DESERT FIGHTER @Zarrar Alvi @Windjammer @Nuri Natt @JOEY TRIBIANI
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