Indian Helicopter Was Most Likely Also Shot Down by PAF

[Keysersoze]

SU-30 pilot involved in a mid-air collision with another fighter during a combat training sortie.

Mishap caused Rs 47-crore damages
| MAR 19, 2019

View attachment 547843

• Mishap

Vijay Mohan
Tribune News Service
Chandigarh, March 18

The “severe displeasure” awarded to an SU-30 pilot involved in a mid-air collision with another fighter during a combat training sortie, that caused damages of over Rs 47 crore, has been set aside by the Armed Forces Tribunal (AFT) on grounds of procedural irregularities.

Based upon findings of a court of inquiry (CoI), Chief of the Air Staff had approved the severe displeasure for 24 months to a Group Captain and a Wing Commander and severe displeasure for 12 months to a Flight Lieutenant in 2017 for alleged violation of rules of combat, flight safety considerations and direct piloting lapses.

https://m.tribuneindia.com/article/censure-to-su-30-pilot-for-jet-collision-set-aside/745312/amp

Someone has to tell me what the hell "Severe displeasure " means.... Is it a lot of tutting and head shaking?

 

[untitled]

what the hell "Severe displeasure " means

The crew probably got the equivalent of a negative rating

 

[Legio XI The Ironclads]

The IAF Mi-17 helicopter which went down along with two IAF Fighter Jets was most likely also a victim of PAF missile. My source tells me that if you look at the map, Budgam (village Garend Kalan) is where the helicopter fell. Budgam is 17 miles from the LOC in the western direction. On the other hand it is 75 miles from Jammu in the south. Furthermore, The rotor blades are turning at nearly the speed of sound at their tips. The radar on the attacking aircraft would have interpreted this high speed to that of a fighter. Many pilots have experienced this.
So it seems the Indian helicopter was at the wrong place at the wrong time and got struck by a missile fired from a PAF aircraft.

@Oscar @Bilal Khan 777 @Hodor @Knuckles @messiach

When you say "The rotor blades are turning at nearly the speed of sound at their tips. The radar on the attacking aircraft would have interpreted this high speed to that of a fighter. Many pilots have experienced this." your post lost all credibility IMO. So what your saying a hovering or slow moving helicopter will be designated at a fast moving jet by an air incercept radar is nonsense. By this logic all helicopters show as fast moving jets? Air defence radars have ability to distinguish between realtively slow moving helicopters and faster moving jets.

All evidence points to this being a Blue on Blue kill, furthermore I saw an Indian article (which I can't find right now) which suggests the helicopter was carrying an IAF rescue party to look for and secure the wreckage of their own downed aircraft, but in the confusion atfer PAF raid a breakdown in communication / incompetence on part of Indian armed forces they ended up shooting down their own helicopter. This would also tally with eye witness reports that the helicopter suffered mid air exploision. In summary no evidence to suggest PAF shoot down, all reasonable evidence to suggest a Blue on Blue kill.

 

[iby32]

Even if it downed by PAF or iaf friendly fire revenge of navy aircraft shot down by Indian is taken l. I am sure Aim120c5 hit the helli

 

[ziaulislam]

When you say "The rotor blades are turning at nearly the speed of sound at their tips. The radar on the attacking aircraft would have interpreted this high speed to that of a fighter. Many pilots have experienced this." your post lost all credibility IMO. So what your saying a hovering or slow moving helicopter will be designated at a fast moving jet by an air incercept radar is nonsense. By this logic all helicopters show as fast moving jets? Air defence radars have ability to distinguish between realtively slow moving helicopters and faster moving jets.

All evidence points to this being a Blue on Blue kill, furthermore I saw an Indian article (which I can't find right now) which suggests the helicopter was carrying an IAF rescue party to look for and secure the wreckage of their own downed aircraft, but in the confusion atfer PAF raid a breakdown in communication / incompetence on part of Indian armed forces they ended up shooting down their own helicopter. This would also tally with eye witness reports that the helicopter suffered mid air exploision. In summary no evidence to suggest PAF shoot down, all reasonable evidence to suggest a Blue on Blue kill.

or the bvr lost its orginal target and locked on mi17

 

[Riz]

Missiles get guidance for some part of the way from the aircraft radar, at some distance the missile own radar takes over and goes after the target, now if in this time period the target is able to evade the lock, the missile radar keeps working to find a target or something else pops up in between the missile goes after it. Recent russian ac downed in syria was this way. Missile went after israeli jets, they hid themselves behind a russian surv ac and thr missile took the russian ac as target and downed it.

or the bvr lost its orginal target and locked on mi17

One SU-30 shot down 2nd one escaped hiding behind the heli.. Just isrealis did with Russian jet over Syria

 

[Windjammer]

When you say "The rotor blades are turning at nearly the speed of sound at their tips. The radar on the attacking aircraft would have interpreted this high speed to that of a fighter. Many pilots have experienced this." your post lost all credibility IMO. So what your saying a hovering or slow moving helicopter will be designated at a fast moving jet by an air incercept radar is nonsense. By this logic all helicopters show as fast moving jets? Air defence radars have ability to distinguish between realtively slow moving helicopters and faster moving jets.

All evidence points to this being a Blue on Blue kill, furthermore I saw an Indian article (which I can't find right now) which suggests the helicopter was carrying an IAF rescue party to look for and secure the wreckage of their own downed aircraft, but in the confusion atfer PAF raid a breakdown in communication / incompetence on part of Indian armed forces they ended up shooting down their own helicopter. This would also tally with eye witness reports that the helicopter suffered mid air exploision. In summary no evidence to suggest PAF shoot down, all reasonable evidence to suggest a Blue on Blue kill.

Your opinion is irrelevant to me since you have concluded and painted the overall picture with same brush so let me enlighten you with how and when the AI radars can interpret rotating heli blades as a fast moving jet.
There are filters in radars that can discern between rotor speed and aircraft speed. However, in mountainous terrain, these filters act erroneously. The ground returns, although negligible in pulse Doppler radars, cause errors in filters, thus the rotor speed creeps through.
Blade tips moving near the speed of sound produce the only signal that can be detected when a helicopter is moving slow near terrain and weather. Helicopters appear like a rapidly pulsing noise emitter except in a clear environment free from clutter.

 

[Raider 21]

The IAF Mi-17 helicopter which went down along with two IAF Fighter Jets was most likely also a victim of PAF missile. My source tells me that if you look at the map, Budgam (village Garend Kalan) is where the helicopter fell. Budgam is 17 miles from the LOC in the western direction. On the other hand it is 75 miles from Jammu in the south. Furthermore, The rotor blades are turning at nearly the speed of sound at their tips. The radar on the attacking aircraft would have interpreted this high speed to that of a fighter. Many pilots have experienced this.
So it seems the Indian helicopter was at the wrong place at the wrong time and got struck by a missile fired from a PAF aircraft.

@Oscar @Bilal Khan 777 @Hodor @Knuckles @messiach

I heard stuff differently. That it was most likely a friendly fire incident.

 

[Windjammer]

I heard stuff differently. That it was most likely a friendly fire incident.

That is also a possibility however PAF did let loose a few BVR as well.

 

[Mrc]

That is also a possibility however PAF did let loose a few BVR as well.

Its not friendly fire...

Its not just heli another fighter also lost in same area

 

[Thorough Pro]

I don't think rotors can get to that high speed

When you say "The rotor blades are turning at nearly the speed of sound at their tips. The radar on the attacking aircraft would have interpreted this high speed to that of a fighter. Many pilots have experienced this." your post lost all credibility IMO. So what your saying a hovering or slow moving helicopter will be designated at a fast moving jet by an air incercept radar is nonsense. By this logic all helicopters show as fast moving jets? Air defence radars have ability to distinguish between realtively slow moving helicopters and faster moving jets.

All evidence points to this being a Blue on Blue kill, furthermore I saw an Indian article (which I can't find right now) which suggests the helicopter was carrying an IAF rescue party to look for and secure the wreckage of their own downed aircraft, but in the confusion atfer PAF raid a breakdown in communication / incompetence on part of Indian armed forces they ended up shooting down their own helicopter. This would also tally with eye witness reports that the helicopter suffered mid air exploision. In summary no evidence to suggest PAF shoot down, all reasonable evidence to suggest a Blue on Blue kill.

 

[tarrar]

It was shot down by Indian army lol.