'Indian hand can't be ruled out'

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

News update... restart required.

JuD has links with al-Qaeda, says Pak govt


M Zulqernain
Lahore, May 30 (PTI) For the first time, Pakistan government today admitted that the Jamaat-ud-Dawah, blamed for the 26/11 attacks, has "prima facie" links with al-Qaeda, as it justified the detention of JuD chief Hafiz Saeed and another top leader after the terror strikes on Mumbai.

Submitting his arguments on Saeed -- also the founder of Lashkar-e-Toiba -- and Col (retd) Nazir Ahmed's petition against their detention, Attorney General Latif Khosa told the Lahore High Court that the government had received "evidence" that showed the JuD "prima facie has links with al-Qaeda." Khosa said the government had "classified information" that would justify the detention of the JuD leaders.

On his request, the three-member bench, headed by Justice Ijaz Ahmed Chaudhry, had a closed-door meeting with him where he apprised them of the classified information in this regard.

The court adjourned the hearing till Monday.

A K Dogar, counsel for Saeed and Nazir, protested against the in-camera briefing, saying that it was the right of his clients to know about the grounds of their detention. He said if the government had any "legal justification", it must be provided to them as well.

Responding to Dogar's statement, Khosa said the judicial review board had extended the detention period of the JuD leaders and also provided legal grounds in this respect. PTI

Govt has ‘enough material’ against JD

"the government had received "evidence" that showed the JuD "prima facie has links with al-Qaeda." Khosa said the government had "classified information" that would justify the detention of the JuD leaders."


Well Ok then, if they are able to successfully argue that in court, I'll buy it.

And does this not also show that now that Pakistan has allegedly received evidence, it is pursuing action against the JuD in court?

 

[notsuperstitious]

Organization was banned and leadership that formed JuD has yet to be shown to have been involved in Mumbai. So yes, so far most of the controls Pakistan put in place to restrain the JuD have worked. The controls on the LeT failed, and Pakistan is therefore taking stronger action against them this time.

As far as 'inciting hatred against India', protected by freedom of speech. There are organizations in India, elected to parliament even, that I would argue 'incite hatred against Pakistan'.

Your argument is a non-sequitur - You suggest that Pakistan had a responsibility for stopping the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks from carrying it out - of course Pakistan had that responsibility, just like any police organization has a responsibility to prevent crime, but crime occurs despite the best efforts of law enforcement. Pakistan did not know Mumbai was going to take place.

Pakistan has helped almost eliminated cross-LoC infiltration and the insurgency in Kashmir, and it has done so for several years now. That indicates the level of control Pakistan exercised over these groups in order to prevent any acts that would vitiate the atmosphere (remember that the two nations were engaging in a very positive back channel dialog).


India used the excuse of a 'completing a proper investigation', which is fine, but why then expect Pakistan to act without providing any proper evidence to base its own investigation on? It is absurd to suggest that Pakistan take action on the basis of media reports, and it is absurd to suggest that because Pakistan did not take action on the basis of media reports, and waited till India completed investigations and shared information, that Pakistan was somehow 'hiding Ajmal's tracks'.

Whether Pakistan investigated or not on the basis of media reports is irrelevant - what is important is that once evidence related to the perpetrators was shared, Pakistan acted. You cannot construct a case in court based on, "well I arrested so and so because the Times of India quoted anonymous GoI sources as saying he was involved".

If India was concerned about the perpetrators getting away, it should have shared its preliminary findings immediately and through official channels with Pakistan. Pakistan was the one continuously calling for a joint investigation and immediate information sharing. You cannot accuse Pakistan of 'delaying' or 'hiding things' when our position was clear from the get go and India was the one refusing to cooperate.


No one can prevent a hundred percent of crimes - Mumbai fell into the category of crimes that slipped under the radar.


Now you are making a different argument than earlier - Pakistan may have created the LeT to fight Indian occupation of Kashmir, and Pakistan acted to significantly limit the groups activities and control them after the parliament attacks, but the argument raised was that Pakistan was responsible for the Mumbai attacks, which I disagree with.

Pakistan is responsible in terms of prosecuting any and all people involved in that attack within Pakistan, and ensuring that those people and their organization do not have an opportunity to do so again.

We'll agree to disagee on this. I was only giving you Indian POV on why we think Pakistan establishment is responsible. When an organisation is run in the same office by the same people same as a terrorist organisation that is accused of killing civilians in India, and then the same organisation is protected by the GOP, and then it turns out they (JUD/LET) have not actually had a change of heart (!), and our civilians die in mumbai streets, why should Indians take a sympathetic view? And Kashmir has nothing to do with this, I'm talking about the specific case only.

As far as 'inciting hatred against India', protected by freedom of speech. There are organizations in India, elected to parliament even, that I would argue 'incite hatred against Pakistan'.

Please note they were raising money for the 'cause', anyone remembers LET modus operandi? Its not the same as freedom of speech, you can chose to think just a different name makes all the difference, I don't. I gave that example to prove that everyone knew they were just not a charity.

Ayways, I hope Pakistani establishment really does something to stop the tap of terror, its only taking us back in time.

 

[SSGPA1]

I am surprised that there are people in this forum who doubt that India has any role to play in recent incidents in Pakistan!

Until Kasmir issue is resolved, India and Pakistan will continue to destroy each other.

 

[Jihad]

I am surprised that there are people in this forum who doubt that India has any role to play in recent incidents in Pakistan!

Until Kasmir issue is resolved, India and Pakistan will continue to destroy each other.

I'm not doubting, I just want to see solid proof or else we can continue to point fingers and still we wont achieve a thing untill we come up with something good so we can grab the Indians by their necks and make them eat all their words aimed against a "rogue Pakistan state".

 

[notsuperstitious]

^^^

How do you all KNOW but you have no proof? Have you not seen the videos of Saudi fighters caught there with their diaries?

 

[Jihad]

^^^

How do you all KNOW but you have no proof? Have you not seen the videos of Saudi fighters caught there with their diaries?

It's natural, plus it is to be expected, a strong and united Pakistan in political and economical ways is not a pushover for India.
Now a weak and unstable Pakistan is easy for the Indians to pressure and to threaten.
Believe it or not, ALOT of Pakistanis simply do know that there are Indian elements involved in Pakistan, and you'd be a fool or be ignorant if you denied it.
It's just that our government and our intelligence network hasn't been able to gather and to bring out a solid report about it.
A country of 1+ billion people which does no harm to Pakistan, sounds too good to be true.
There are plenty of organisations or elements in India who have had their share of causing mayhem in certain parts of Pakistan.
Proving that seems to be difficult, and we'd be fools if we simply turned our backs on this, but i'm pretty confident we'll unfold a few mysteries sooner or later, it's just a matter of time, and a matter of expertise and handling by our national institutes.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Believe it or not, ALOT of Pakistanis simply do know that there are Indian elements involved in Pakistan, and you'd be a fool or be ignorant if you denied it.

So I'm a fool or ignorant if I questioned the clairvoyance of Pakistanis?

Ok let me file that along with the 10 indian soldiers = 1 pakistani soldiers file.

 

[Jihad]

So I'm a fool or ignorant if I questioned the clairvoyance of Pakistanis?

Ok let me file that along with the 10 indian soldiers = 1 pakistani soldiers file.

You're ignorant yes if you think your country is innocent in every way possible when it comes to certain turmoil happening in Pakistan.