Indian forces on toes at forward bases

[war&peace]

Thank you for youer post.I try to be rational in my thinking so could not understand the reasons for this aggressive designs of the Dhotis. The yhave previously always been better prepared than us and their polity is much more matured than ours. So why this sign of desperation? Perhaps KAshmir is really slipping out of their hands.
In my humble opinion the PA response was appropriate and more damage would have forced the Dhotis to respond. We did not want that and probably still dont. However, if push comes to shove our response would be proportionate.
The real game is on the internbational front and this is where we have stepped out of the shadows and are making our mark. The Nawaz abnd Zardari regimes have caused us so much setbacks in addition to the rampant corruption so we have a lot to make up for.
I will again say that the struggle for freedom needs to be projected to the world as indegenous rather than extrenuous which India has so far told the world. This is the only reason they are trying to get us to respond so they can turn this struggle into a Pak inspired one. This is the only reason I think we need to keep out of this for as long as is humanly possible. For the poor kashmiris the short sightedness and inactivity of the 65 war is coming to haunt them.
A

nice valuable post. I will reply inshaAllah in the evening as I'm going for the meeting

 

[The Eagle]

Perhaps KAshmir is really slipping out of their hands.

The fact that many from cross border failed to understand but decided to dance for a short while for 370A. Furthermore, Kashmir wasn't much into the picture or less projection at International Forums for last few years but Modi made it possible as how Kashmir can get attention. It is indeed PM IK's initiative that started to press for the same since beginning and even made Tump to speak as such which ultimately caused fury in Indian lines.

The desperate attempt by Modi can also favour the Kashmir cause but it depends upon as how our diplomatic forces take opportunity and gain as much as we can. Had it been about past tenures of NS or AAZ; we barely heard about Kashmir especially since Fazal-ur-Rehman was in-charge of Kashmir Committee.

Modi chose a crucial time when Pakistan is already helping in Afghanistan peace process while India felt like left alone by Uncle Sam hence, provocative tactics to seek attention. For India, Kashmir provocation may serve few things like causing threat to Afghanistan peace process so US may contact India to please. Also, Iran chapter is still hot and may be by doing so in the region, India is about to create an excuse in-case failing to help Iran by any mean against Western/US threats. Also, Pakistan is going through economic storms and on other hand, appears to make out of it in an year or so hence, India wouldn't want it to be some favourable results for Pakistan.

Provocation at LoC is much more about dragging Pakistan into a conflict and having the biggest ever foul mouth propaganda Media, India is at leverage to twist and make hue & cry for sympathy of International Forums. FATF team to be arriving soon and in fact Pakistan has made a lot of progress in this regard and so also, may IK had the confidence of Trump as well to not to pursue this bill and let the Pakistan be out of grey list. Once the economy started to thrive, businesses progressing, CPEC going upwards & there is peace in Afghanistan; India will be having heart attacks without any conflict hence, don't want to miss any chance to drag us into diversion and harm any progress for us.

Now Pakistan must utilize every diplomatic source to bring this issue of Kashmir to every International Forum, reach every entity and UNSC as well as ICJ or any other platform. Parties involved in CPEC or even Afghanistan peace process, will definitely get on board in this regard whereby Trump has already shown his interest for mediation which too fueled Modi idiocy in Indian Occupied Kashmir. I can assume for a while that may be due to expected mediation on Kashmir issue, India rushed to change demography by this move so can claim more area later. However, enforced change in demography by relocating masses, itself is a crime. As India utilized Geneva in ICJ; Pakistan can too seek remedy under available International Laws. Pakistan has already handed over the evidence of use of cluster munition by India Army in Azad Kashmir and there is surely a Geneva Condition in this regard clearly banning use of such munition on population.

India must be preparing for a limited time escalation and an attempt to even the score post Balakot failed strikes hence, military development. However, if push come to shove; this time it is going to be different with bit of more punch and the same level of punch will keep rising as long as India raising the bar of provocation and means of conflict.

 

[NaqsheYaar]

Someone talked abt a war between the 2 Eids

No that time has not come yet.. this time again situation would cool down.

Though it's bad news for kashmiri Muslims in particular and other Muslim population in general. Things would deteriorate further as we move on, until about 2023. Then it would all be decided once and for all.

The rumor is that due to indian torture, Yasin Malik has died in the indian jail and all this additional military presence in the valley to crush any protests

Wow oh wow!

Ya Allah kher.

 

[Skywalker]

All this two front war monger I got by India will be tested to extreme if chine decides t9 intervene as chine also claims Ladakh as their part.
I hope Indian won’t commit suicide in reality. They can’t even take on Pakistan on it’s own let alone the might of Chinese.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The fact that many from cross border failed to understand but decided to dance for a short while for 370A. Furthermore, Kashmir wasn't much into the picture or less projection at International Forums for last few years but Modi made it possible as how Kashmir can get attention. It is indeed PM IK's initiative that started to press for the same since beginning and even made Tump to speak as such which ultimately caused fury in Indian lines.

The desperate attempt by Modi can also favour the Kashmir cause but it depends upon as how our diplomatic forces take opportunity and gain as much as we can. Had it been about past tenures of NS or AAZ; we barely heard about Kashmir especially since Fazal-ur-Rehman was in-charge of Kashmir Committee.

Modi chose a crucial time when Pakistan is already helping in Afghanistan peace process while India felt like left alone by Uncle Sam hence, provocative tactics to seek attention. For India, Kashmir provocation may serve few things like causing threat to Afghanistan peace process so US may contact India to please. Also, Iran chapter is still hot and may be by doing so in the region, India is about to create an excuse in-case failing to help Iran by any mean against Western/US threats. Also, Pakistan is going through economic storms and on other hand, appears to make out of it in an year or so hence, India wouldn't want it to be some favourable results for Pakistan.

Provocation at LoC is much more about dragging Pakistan into a conflict and having the biggest ever foul mouth propaganda Media, India is at leverage to twist and make hue & cry for sympathy of International Forums. FATF team to be arriving soon and in fact Pakistan has made a lot of progress in this regard and so also, may IK had the confidence of Trump as well to not to pursue this bill and let the Pakistan be out of grey list. Once the economy started to thrive, businesses progressing, CPEC going upwards & there is peace in Afghanistan; India will be having heart attacks without any conflict hence, don't want to miss any chance to drag us into diversion and harm any progress for us.

Now Pakistan must utilize every diplomatic source to bring this issue of Kashmir to every International Forum, reach every entity and UNSC as well as ICJ or any other platform. Parties involved in CPEC or even Afghanistan peace process, will definitely get on board in this regard whereby Trump has already shown his interest for mediation which too fueled Modi idiocy in Indian Occupied Kashmir. I can assume for a while that may be due to expected mediation on Kashmir issue, India rushed to change demography by this move so can claim more area later. However, enforced change in demography by relocating masses, itself is a crime. As India utilized Geneva in ICJ; Pakistan can too seek remedy under available International Laws. Pakistan has already handed over the evidence of use of cluster munition by India Army in Azad Kashmir and there is surely a Geneva Condition in this regard clearly banning use of such munition on population.

India must be preparing for a limited time escalation and an attempt to even the score post Balakot failed strikes hence, military development. However, if push come to shove; this time it is going to be different with bit of more punch and the same level of punch will keep rising as long as India raising the bar of provocation and means of conflict.

Scorched earth policy from India to stop Pak from progressing!! As if Kashmir isn’t fully occupied and filled with military forces to the brim!!!!!

 

[Syed1.]

The fact that many from cross border failed to understand but decided to dance for a short while for 370A. Furthermore, Kashmir wasn't much into the picture or less projection at International Forums for last few years but Modi made it possible as how Kashmir can get attention. It is indeed PM IK's initiative that started to press for the same since beginning and even made Tump to speak as such which ultimately caused fury in Indian lines.

The desperate attempt by Modi can also favour the Kashmir cause but it depends upon as how our diplomatic forces take opportunity and gain as much as we can. Had it been about past tenures of NS or AAZ; we barely heard about Kashmir especially since Fazal-ur-Rehman was in-charge of Kashmir Committee.

Modi chose a crucial time when Pakistan is already helping in Afghanistan peace process while India felt like left alone by Uncle Sam hence, provocative tactics to seek attention. For India, Kashmir provocation may serve few things like causing threat to Afghanistan peace process so US may contact India to please. Also, Iran chapter is still hot and may be by doing so in the region, India is about to create an excuse in-case failing to help Iran by any mean against Western/US threats. Also, Pakistan is going through economic storms and on other hand, appears to make out of it in an year or so hence, India wouldn't want it to be some favourable results for Pakistan.

Provocation at LoC is much more about dragging Pakistan into a conflict and having the biggest ever foul mouth propaganda Media, India is at leverage to twist and make hue & cry for sympathy of International Forums. FATF team to be arriving soon and in fact Pakistan has made a lot of progress in this regard and so also, may IK had the confidence of Trump as well to not to pursue this bill and let the Pakistan be out of grey list. Once the economy started to thrive, businesses progressing, CPEC going upwards & there is peace in Afghanistan; India will be having heart attacks without any conflict hence, don't want to miss any chance to drag us into diversion and harm any progress for us.

Now Pakistan must utilize every diplomatic source to bring this issue of Kashmir to every International Forum, reach every entity and UNSC as well as ICJ or any other platform. Parties involved in CPEC or even Afghanistan peace process, will definitely get on board in this regard whereby Trump has already shown his interest for mediation which too fueled Modi idiocy in Indian Occupied Kashmir. I can assume for a while that may be due to expected mediation on Kashmir issue, India rushed to change demography by this move so can claim more area later. However, enforced change in demography by relocating masses, itself is a crime. As India utilized Geneva in ICJ; Pakistan can too seek remedy under available International Laws. Pakistan has already handed over the evidence of use of cluster munition by India Army in Azad Kashmir and there is surely a Geneva Condition in this regard clearly banning use of such munition on population.

India must be preparing for a limited time escalation and an attempt to even the score post Balakot failed strikes hence, military development. However, if push come to shove; this time it is going to be different with bit of more punch and the same level of punch will keep rising as long as India raising the bar of provocation and means of conflict.

Please give yourself a positive rating.

 

[ghazi52]

India ups military movement on Pak border

SRINAGAR: The sudden deployment of additional forces sparked panic in the valley, with speculation rife about the abrogation of Article 35A as the India enhanced military deployment at the Line of Control (LoC).

A day after India’s central government decision to dispatch an additional 28,000 paramilitary forces to the Valley, Army and Indian Air Force (IAF) were put on high alert in Jammu and Kashmir, which has led to speculations and tension in the state.

The IAF fighter aircraft have been patrolling over Kashmir since Thursday evening as part of the operational alert and sources said the steps have been taken in view of the increased troops’ induction.

Despite the Union Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) in New Delhi denying reports of deployment of additional 28,000 paramilitary troops in the state, they said, the government has pressed IAF aircraft, including C-17 heavy lift planes into service for rapid induction of paramilitary forces into the Valley. “Rashtriya Rifles and other regular units of army deployed on the LoC have been asked to be prepared for any eventuality,” sources added.

The sources quoting unnamed official reported that all major entry and exit points in the Srinagar city have been taken over by the Central Armed Paramilitary Forces (CAPFs) with a token presence of local police.

Reacting to the development of IAF and Army being put on high alert, former Indian held Kashmir chief minister Omar Abdullah tweeted: “What ‘ongoing situation’ in Kashmir would require the army AND the Air Force to be put on alert? This isn't about 35A or delimitation. This sort of alert, if actually issued, would be about something very different (sic).”

The sudden deployment of additional forces sparked panic in the Valley, with speculation rife about the abrogation of Article 35A. Residents In Srinagar started panic-buying essentials on Friday as they link the deployment of forces to the apprehension of deterioration in the law and order situation. Earlier on July 25, the MHA had deployed 100 additional companies of CAPFs in Kashmir. The deployment came just days after National Security Adviser (NSA) Ajit Doval along with some top intelligence officials visited Kashmir to assess the ground situation.

Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) Governor Satya Pal Malik said that he never saw so many fighter jets fly and the number of Sukhois on standby in Srinagar because of the situation on the border.

Meanwhile, the United Nations appealed to India and Pakistan to exercise “maximum restraint” amid escalating tensions between the two countries along the Line of Control (LoC). “The UN Military Observer Group in India and Pakistan observed and reported an increase in military activity at the Line of Control in recent days,” the UN Secretary-General’s Spokesman, Stephane Dujarric, said in a statement emailed to APP’s UN correspondent in response to a question.

“The United Nations appeals to both sides to exercise maximum restraint to ensure that the situation does not further deteriorate,” the statement added.

Meanwhile, two civilians including a woman was injured as India violated the ceasefire on the Line of Control (LoC) by resorting to unprovoked firing on various forward villages close to this side of the LoC in Nikayal sector in Kotli district of Azad Jammu & Kashmir Saturday night, local police control room said. “Indian troops resorted to unprovoked firing targeting the forward villages of Tarkundi and Darooti in Nikayal Sector in Kotli district at about 9.00 Saturday night, injuring a 75-year-old local resident Muhammad Sadiq son of Paaris Ali and 18-year-old Jawairiya Ishrat, resident of Darooti,” In-charge officer of Police Control Room Kotli said over telephone on Sunday. “No loss of life or property was reported,” the police officials said. Injured were rushed to nearest hospital for medicare, he added.

 

[crankthatskunk]

In time you shall learn that in moments of conflict, the cooler heads attain victory.

For seventy years we have been showing cooler heads. Lets count the success rate.

1- Could have and should have taken the whole of Kashmir, stopped just 40 miles from Srinagar thinking the UN would resolve the issue of Kashmir once Nehru approached UN and promised a plebiscite. Still waiting for the resolution.

2- In 1970s arrested Mujeeb trialed him should have hanged him for treason. But showed cool heads, released him. What you know now Modi admit that they were training and arming Mukti Bahni and Mujeeb off course was working for them and Indian Army was also working inside. Result lost East Pakistan to Indian aggression and murderous designs.

3- Launch Kargil, successfully captured important hilltops positions, but Nawaz crook started talking to the Americans , didn't go for airstrikes to help the troops. Asked for help, rather told to withdraw by Clinton. Obliged and got many Pakistani soldiers killed. Didn't grab the Indians by the necks when had the chance.

4- Didn't secure high grounds in Siachin thinking it is cold desolate waste, human cannot survive. Gave Indians chance to send their troops to the top. Still going through pain and suffering of the soldiers from both side at cold waste land.

Yeap we have seen the results of "cool heads" working. Victory!! Where it is!!

Fools.

 

[WarKa DaNG]

Close the airspace and stop all the dealings

 

[araz]

For seventy years we have been showing cooler heads. Lets count the success rate.

1- Could have and should have taken the whole of Kashmir, stopped just 40 miles from Srinagar thinking the UN would resolve the issue of Kashmir once Nehru approached UN and promised a plebiscite. Still waiting for the resolution.

2- In 1970s arrested Mujeeb trialed him should have hanged him for treason. But showed cool heads, released him. What you know now Modi admit that they were training and arming Mukti Bahni and Mujeeb off course was working for them and Indian Army was also working inside. Result lost East Pakistan to Indian aggression and murderous designs.

3- Launch Kargil, successfully captured important hilltops positions, but Nawaz crook started talking to the Americans , didn't go for airstrikes to help the troops. Asked for help, rather told to withdraw by Clinton. Obliged and got many Pakistani soldiers killed. Didn't grab the Indians by the necks when had the chance.

4- Didn't secure high grounds in Siachin thinking it is cold desolate waste, human cannot survive. Gave Indians chance to send their troops to the top. Still going through pain and suffering of the soldiers from both side at cold waste land.

Yeap we have seen the results of "cool heads" working. Victory!! Where it is!!

Fools.

1. It was not as simple as you quote. For instance Indian forces took over Haji Pir hilltops and were in a position to shell Islamabad. It is widely believed the ammo on Pak side was running out. With no local resources for ammo production your capital in jeopardy it was only too fair that you sue for peace.
2. Mujeeb was not your enemy. Things were never in Mujeebs hands but in Mukti bahini's hands which were being handled by the Indian masters. Our forces were blissfully unaware of the chaos that had been in the making for decades. If at all the reigns of power should have been handed over to Mujeeb as he had national majority. This would have taken away the very reason to create chaos. But Bhutto would not have it and apparently the army heirarchy would not have it at all either. It may come as a surprise to you that Mujeeb requested the armed forces to arrest him and get him out of East Pakistan as he feared for his life at the hands of Mukti bahini.
3. Again totally against the grain of what went on. I will gladly grant you that Nawaz was an idiot of the highest order but Musharraf was not that far behind. Kargil was always destined to fail. One of the main points was what are Pak forces going to do when the winter sets on the hill tops. They would have had to vacate them. Secondly the plans, in spite of repeated reminders did not take into consideration the two airfields which were in Kashmir in the immediate viscinity. Once the bombings started you had no way out. Your planes could not cover your own forces as it would have been an act of open war which you could not have sustained due to pathetic financial condition. Kargil was not a novelty but a rehash of decades old plans which had been denied as unfeasible by multiple people and Generals. Even if you had taken over and achieved your aims any peace overture would have required you to revert back to your borders. It was such a waste of good lives. The other dream of bombing and cutting off the indian supply line to Kashmir was also far from reality. The counter argument was that the Pak Army built a wall to protect its civilians and traffic against indian firing in Sindh border. The Indians were 3 miles away and could not stop us from building the wall. So how could you stop the supply line while 30 miles away. How would you have gotten heavy artillery to the hill tops?
4 Agreed. This is another waste of lives unnecessarily. I fail to see the significance of those wretched uninhabitable peaks and the loss of lives on both sides for them.
We really need to revisit history. It seems a lot of the lessons taught to us were very tainted.
A

 

[crankthatskunk]

1. It was not as simple as you quote. For instance Indian forces took over Haji Pir hilltops and were in a position to shell Islamabad. It is widely believed the ammo on Pak side was running out. With no local resour es for ammo production your capital in jeopardy it was only too fair that you sue for peace.

A- Capital Islamabad in 1948!! Great history lesson sir, I salute you.

2. Mujeeb was not your enemy. Things were never in Mujeebs hands but in Mukti bahini's hands which were being handled by the Indian masters. Our forces were blissfully unaware of the chaos that had been in the making for decades. If at all the reigns of power should have been handed over to Mujeeb as he had national majority. This would have taken away the very reason to create chaos. But Bhutto would not have it and apparently the army heirarchy would not have it at all. It may come as a surprise to you that Mujeeb requested the armed forces to arrest him and get him out of East Pakistan as he feared for his life at tge hands of Mukti bahini.

Yeah true very true. Mujeeb was never the enemy. He actually was a traitor and as such should have been hanged rather than released. He formed Mukti, was financed and trained by the Indians. He was their puppet who helped the separation of East Pakistan.

3. Again totally against the grain of what went on. I will gladly grant you that Nawaz was an idiot of the highest order but Musharraf was not that far behind. Kargil was always destined to fail. One of the main points was what are Pak forces going to do when the winter sets on the hill tops. They would have had to vacate them. Secondly the plans, in spite of repeated remjnders did not take into consideration the two airfields which were in Kashmir in the immediate viscinity. Once the bombings started you had no way out. Your planes could not cover your own f9rces as it would have been an act of open war which you could not have sustained due to pathetic financial condition. Kargil was not a novelty but a rehash of decades old plans which had been denied as unfeasible by multiple people and Generals. Even if you had taken over and achieved your aims any peace overture would have required you to revert back to your borders. It was such a waste of good lives.

They would have done the same, what they do at Siachin.
That's why I said the air cover should have been provided. We should have operated as Indians do at Siachin.
Why peace overture only implementable by Pakistan!! Why Indians have not revert back!!

4 Agreed. This is another waste of lives unnecessarily. I fail to see the significance of those wretched un inhabitable peaks and the loss of lives on both sides for them.
We really need to revisit history. It seems a lot of the lessons taught to us were very tainted.
A

All I can say is another Foolish response from dithering people. Stop burying your head in the sand. Stand up and be counted.

Sad and worried for the person who has given you a positive rating. Your response is so full of historical and factual errors that it doesn't even reward a second look. I sadly have to respond to you because you quoted me, otherwise such responses should be ignored at all costs.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

A- Capital Islamabad in 1948!! Great history lesson sir, I salute you.

He is talking of 65......

 

[crankthatskunk]

He is talking of 65......

While I was talking about 1948 war of Kashmir when part of it was liberated by the "Lashkars".
He shouldn't have jumped to 1965.

 

[NA71]

Those who think situation will defuse in few days...are very wrong.....the situation is more volatile than we had in February .... NYT/WP are indicating the same fear that ... a slight mistake could lead to dangerous escalation level. IAF's continuous CAP 30km from LOC since Friday night... heavy artillery movements and so many indicators suggest the mad man could do anything nasty.

 

[TheTallGuy]

@NA71 @Armchair @Mangus Ortus Novem @zulu @The Eagle @Vortex @araz @mingle
نَصْرٌ مِّن اللَّهِ وَفَتْحٌ قَرِيبٌ