Indian Economy-News & Updates

[RiazHaq]

And I clearly understand the difference between Educational Attainment Rate, and Enrollment Rate, which is why I posted the Gross Enrollment Rate graphs in post#1882, to distinguish it from educational attainment rate. Its you who need to understand the meaning and definition of "educational attainment"

There is a reason why all these reports, categorically don't use the Barro-Lee figures for countries where the national household survey figures are available, which is more accurate.

Looks like you just want to take the Barro and Lee paper as the absolute truth, and all other reports/papers are worthless for you. If thats your mindset, then any further discussion is futile.

Let me make three points and hope that we can agree:

1. The reports and data you are citing are older than the Barro & Lee data.

2. The reports you are citing do not offer any data on "completion" or graduation rate at each level as Barro-Lee does.

3. Unlike the people and reports you cite, Barrow and Lee are serious researchers at Harvard who understand data and know how to interpret it, and are therefore more credible.

Besides, there are other sources such as the UNDP HDI report that corroborates the fact that Pakistanis have more years of schooling than Indians, and ranks Pakistan higher than India on education.

According to the (UNDP) report, life expectancy at birth in India is 64.4 years, while in Pakistan it is 67.2 years. In Bangladesh, life expectancy is 66.9 years.

Similarly, mean years of schooling in India is 4.4 years while in Pakistan and Bangladesh it is 4.9 and 4.8 years respectively.

Pakistan ahead of India on human development indices: UN report - Hindustan Times

 

[Night_Raven]

500 MW Unit at NTPC- Farakka attains Full Load

500 MW Unit of NTPC- Farakka stage III was declared Commercial on attaining full load on 28th Sept.,2011 by Shri Pranab Mukherjee, Hon’ble Union Minister of Finance and Hon’ble Union Minister of Power and Shri Sushilkumar Shinde at Murshidabad in West Bengal..With this unit the total installed capacity of Farakka has become 2100 MW.

Shri K.C. Venugopal, Hon’ble Union Minister of State for Power; Shri Manish Gupta, Hon’ble Minister In-charge, Dept. of Power & NCES Govt. of West Bengal; Shri Arup Roy Choudhury ,CMD NTPC, Directors of NTPC and other eminent leaders and citizens of West Bengal were present.

500 MW Unit at NTPC- Farakka attains Full Load

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

when a wannabe economist can't tell the difference between numbers for the year 2011 and numbers for the year 2010-11 then yoyou can imagine how much his knowledge . no point debating with him .

The world will believe what IMF and World Bank say not Mr. Haq .Those institutions have been around since before mr haq was probably even born or atleast since before mr haq even knew what Economics means ( if he does know now ) .

I am glad that IMF and world bank puts its numbers on its website to negate such BS propoganda from people on the net .

another thing i would like ask the mods is , that this thread is specifically about indian economy and Mr. Haq has come here and derailed it royally by discussing Pakistani economy but the MODS have not taken any action. Can't help but call it anti-Indian bias playing out on this forum . If Indians would derail the Pakistani economy thread trolling like this you would see bans being handed out like 'Prasad' after a pooja( worship) .

 

[Roybot]

Let me make three points and hope that we can agree:

1. The reports and data you are citing are older than the Barro & Lee data.

2. The reports you are citing do not offer any data on "completion" or graduation rate at each level as Barro-Lee does.

3. Unlike the people and reports you cite, Barrow and Lee are serious researchers at Harvard who understand data and know how to interpret it, and are therefore more credible.

Am not going to reply to off topic comments, lets first conclude this "educational attainment" debate first.

1. Once again, I have mentioned it earlier to you that, the last actual data from India that Barro-Lee used in their paper, is from 1991. Rest are extrapolated based on the old figures.

Apendix Table: Page 46, A New Data Set of Educational Attainment in the World, 1950

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2. Please read the definition of "educational attainment" I quoted from the Worldbank report, in post #1882 and again in post #1890.

So yes the World Bank report I quoted from, does show the "graduation" and "completion" figures, because thats what "educational attainment means".

========================================================================
3. World Bank reports are reliable enough for the world over, should be for you too.

^^From Barrow & Lee, can you explain to me how come 5.8% Indians aged 15 and above are enrolling in tertiary education, when only 1.3% are completing their secondary education?

 

[RiazHaq]

1. Once again, I have mentioned it earlier to you that, the last actual data from India that Barro-Lee used in their paper, is from 1991. Rest are extrapolated based on the old figures.

Attainment does not mean completion, a distinction clearly made by Barrow & Lee. Hence separate percentages for each.

2. Please read the definition of "educational attainment" I quoted from the Worldbank report....

So yes the World Bank report I quoted from, does show the "graduation" and "completion" figures, because thats what "educational attainment means".

========================================================================
3. World Bank reports are reliable enough for the world over, should be for you too.

^^From Barrow & Lee, can you explain to me how come 5.8% Indians aged 15 and above are enrolling in tertiary education, when only 1.3% are completing their secondary education?

Primary and Secondary levels include people of 15-19 age group, and tertiary level includes all people above the age of 19.

You need to actually read the Barro Lee report and download the data to understand it.

Here's the link: A New Data Set of Educational Attainment in the World, 1950-2010

 

[RiazHaq]

Currently, there is a big debate in India on Planning Commission's new poverty line of only 32 rupees (urban) and just 26 rupees (rural) per day.

In spite of recent poverty declines with its rapid economic expansion, India still has higher poverty rates than Pakistan, according to a 2011 World Bank report titled "Perspectives on poverty in India : stylized facts from survey data" released in 2011.

Overall, the latest World Bank data shows that India's poverty rate of 27.5%, based on India's current poverty line of $1.03 per person per day, is more than 10 percentage points higher than Pakistan's 17.2%. Assam (urban), Punjab and Himachal Pradesh are the only three Indian states with lower poverty rates than Pakistan's.

Haq's Musings: World Bank on Poverty Across India in 2011

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Currently, there is a big debate in India on Planning Commission's new poverty line of only 32 rupees (urban) and just 26 rupees (rural) per day.

In spite of recent poverty declines with its rapid economic expansion, India still has higher poverty rates than Pakistan, according to a 2011 World Bank report titled "Perspectives on poverty in India : stylized facts from survey data" released in 2011.

Overall, the latest World Bank data shows that India's poverty rate of 27.5%, based on India's current poverty line of $1.03 per person per day, is more than 10 percentage points higher than Pakistan's 17.2%. Assam (urban), Punjab and Himachal Pradesh are the only three Indian states with lower poverty rates than Pakistan's.

Haq's Musings: World Bank on Poverty Across India in 2011

These numbers are from the 2005 data that was collected in the mid-term world bank MDG monitoring report .

The MDG report also suggests that by 2015 Indian poverty rate by World bank measure would be down to 22.4 % .

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTDEC/EXTGLOBALMONITOR/EXTGLOMONREP2011/0,,contentMDK:22885524~pagePK:64168445~piPK:64168309~theSitePK:7856232,00.html

check out the table in box 1.1



Btw , you are offtopic . I know there is no point telling you but still .

 

[RiazHaq]

These numbers are from the 2005 data that was collected in the mid-term world bank MDG monitoring report .

The MDG report also suggests that by 2015 Indian poverty rate by World bank measure would be down to 22.4 % .

Global Monitoring Report 2011 - Goal 1: Eradicate Extreme Poverty and Hunger

check out the table in box 1.1

Really? Is it not worse now?

Here's a recent BBC report:

Officially, 37% of India's 1.21bn people live below the poverty line.

But there are various estimates of the exact number of poor in India and one suggests the true figure could be as high as 77%.

But the Planning Commission recently told India's Supreme Court that an individual income of 25 rupees (52 cents) a day would help provide for adequate "private expenditure on food, education and health" in the villages. In the cities, it said, individual earnings of 32 rupees a day (65 cents) were adequate.

Critics say this amount is extremely low and aimed at "artificially" reducing the number of poor. They argue that this will deprive millions of state benefits they would otherwise be entitled to.
Estimate ridiculed

"The right to food campaign challenges you and all the members of the Planning Commission to live on 25 rupees or 32 rupees a day till such time that you are able to explain to the public in simple words the basis of the statement that this amount is 'normatively adequate'," an open letter to the commission signed by Ms Roy, Mr Mander and various other activists said.

BBC News - India activists in 'half a dollar a day' dare to panel

Btw , you are offtopic . I know there is no point telling you but still .

Since when are the poverty stats not relevant to economy?

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Really? Is it not worse now?

Here's a recent BBC report:

Officially, 37% of India's 1.21bn people live below the poverty line.

But there are various estimates of the exact number of poor in India and one suggests the true figure could be as high as 77%.

But the Planning Commission recently told India's Supreme Court that an individual income of 25 rupees (52 cents) a day would help provide for adequate "private expenditure on food, education and health" in the villages. In the cities, it said, individual earnings of 32 rupees a day (65 cents) were adequate.

Critics say this amount is extremely low and aimed at "artificially" reducing the number of poor. They argue that this will deprive millions of state benefits they would otherwise be entitled to.
Estimate ridiculed

"The right to food campaign challenges you and all the members of the Planning Commission to live on 25 rupees or 32 rupees a day till such time that you are able to explain to the public in simple words the basis of the statement that this amount is 'normatively adequate'," an open letter to the commission signed by Ms Roy, Mr Mander and various other activists said.

BBC News - India activists in 'half a dollar a day' dare to panel





Since when are the poverty stats not relevant to economy?

what some Indian activists say is not equal to what world bank says . The credibility of world bank is much higher .

Sorry you can't argue on that . Even by India's own poverty estimates that are lower than world bank indian's poverty is just 37 % .

That 77 % figure has no backing from any credible organisations like Indian givt , world bank or IMF or ADB ( Asian development bank)

You have been busted .
http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/EXTDEC/EXTGLOBALMONITOR/EXTGLOMONREP2011/0,,contentMDK:22885524~pagePK:64168445~piPK:64168309~theSitePK:7856232,00.html

Box 1.1 . Read again . Right from the horse's mouth . the world bank .

 

[Roybot]

Attainment does not mean completion, a distinction clearly made by Barrow & Lee. Hence separate percentages for each.

Primary and Secondary levels include people of 15-19 age group, and tertiary level includes all people above the age of 19.

You need to actually read the Barro Lee report and download the data to understand it.

Here's the link: A New Data Set of Educational Attainment in the World, 1950-2010

I have skimmed through the report, but maybe I am not able to get my head around this. So help me out here yeah?

Lets focus on the Secondary completion figures for now,

For India(2010)- 0.9%, For Pakistan(2010) - 22.5%.

Now what is this percentage of? 0.9% of what? 22.5% of what?

 

[RiazHaq]

I have skimmed through the report, but maybe I am not able to get my head around this. So help me out here yeah?

Lets focus on the Secondary completion figures for now,

For India(2010)- 0.9%, For Pakistan(2010) - 22.5%.

Now what is this percentage of? 0.95% of what? 22.5% of what?

It just shows that India has a huge drop-out problem in the secondary school age group....and my guess is that part of it is India's pervasive poverty and hunger that forces kids to leave school and find work to feed themselves and their families.

Please read the report. It has detailed data by various age groups over time.

It's a serious work by serious researchers in academia that requires serious reading to understand it...skimming won't do.

 

[Roybot]

It just sows India has a huge drop-out problem in the secondary school group....and my guess is that part of it is India's pervasive poverty and hunger that forces kids to leave school and find work to feed themselves.

Please read the report. It has detailed data by various age groups over time.

It's a serious work by serious researchers in academia that requires serious reading to understand it...skimming won't do.

You are not answering my question. What is that percentage of? 0.9% of all the Indians aged 15 and above? 22.5% of all the Pakistanis aged 15 and over?

 

[RiazHaq]

what some Indian activists say is not equal to what world bank says . The credibility of world bank is much higher .

Sorry you can't argue on that . Even by India's own poverty estimates that are lower than world bank indian's poverty is just 37 % .

That 77 % figure has no backing from any credible organisations like Indian givt , world bank or IMF or ADB ( Asian development bank)

You have been busted .
Global Monitoring Report 2011 - Goal 1: Eradicate Extreme Poverty and Hunger

Box 1.1 . Read again . Right from the horse's mouth . the world bank .

Yes, the World Bank has higher credibility, but it reports based on data collected by Indian govt using its criteria for poverty. And India's poverty line is absolutely ridiculous, and even with that poverty line, it reports 37.5% population living below it.

Don't make light of it; it's a deadly serious issue that affects hundreds of millions of Indians, making it the world's biggest population of poor, hungry and illiterate people in the world living in a country with 55 newly minted billionaires and 240,000 dead farmers from suicides in the last 12 years.

Haq's Musings: 63 Years After Independence, India Remains Home to World's Largest Population of Poor, Hungry and Illiterates

 

[RiazHaq]

You are not answering my question. What is that percentage of? 0.9% of all the Indians aged 15 and above? 22.5% of all the Pakistanis aged 15 and over?

Yes, the data is what it is.

It's clear that there is no amount of explaining that I can do that will satisfy you. You have to read the report honestly and with an open mind to understand it.

 

[Vinod2070]

^^ Can you explain why Pakistan is lower than India in HDI index still? And always has been?

Why not obsess with your own country and your Islamic brothers in Afghanistan?