Indian defence & religion

[Subramanian]

Off topic, but I have to say this:

Scientists may have religious beliefs, but that does not make the beliefs scientific. Just because a nuclear physicist or someone at ISRO believes that crushing lemons or breaking coconuts makes a flight safer (or whatever it is supposed to do), does not make it a scientific truth. It becomes scientific only if it has been established (proven is a wrong word, but more commonly used) scientifically. Unless these beliefs are backed up by empirical evidence and logic, or scientific reasons/mechanisms are shown, these are just beliefs, no matter who holds the beliefs.

Scientists, like anyone else, may have personal beliefs depending on which region they grew up in. But that doesn't mean that those beliefs are scientific. So it is pointless to say that people at ISRO are doing it, so somehow it is worthwhile.

Sorry for the off-topic, but I can't resist when my profession is being talked about.

If we all did things only with cause-effect relationship,we ll be plain robots.

If you think the faith of the scientists have nothing to with their motivation to work,u r sadly mistaken.

Secularism = Respect all religions(religious freedom to individuals).
Hate-mongering = Bad-mouthing religions, calling names.

I hope, I cleared the difference for you. The next time you open your dirty mouth, make sure others are human too. Just because they refuse to be arrogant and hate-mongerer like you, doesn't mean they are animals.

I think it was quite pathetic of you to say all that.

Good one,

The only reason i am forced to talk like this with a learned and wise old man like Joe Shearer is the ugly Marxist brainwashing that people like him got in their teens.

 

[Tamizhan]

I can only tell you this, discrimination is on your mind and no matter what arguments given you will think that way.

You have been hell bent on minorities only in your recent posts, before you were questioning the Scientific value behind them, changing gears much?

It's just this :

It's funny seeing these people who hide their own petty religious insecurities under the garb of science, logic, rationality and bring in all the minorities (Tamizh who have a separate festival Ayutha Puja to worship the tools of livelihood and Gorkhalis who are the ones who celebrate Durga Puja with gala and festivity in the Army) to put forth their own views. Such a see through. It only takes a little bit of scratching for the veneer to give way to the true feelings

 

[anonymus]

You will be surprised to know the level of 'sentiments' the scientists believe in. Nothing wrong in that.

A lot of them may be acting civil for the sake of their religious colleagues.I am not a religious person but does not go around pissing on religious people beliefs unless they act like a fundamentalists.


And what a heck this thread is?????

Its title is Indian defence and religion and subtitle is LCA news and Indian defence and religion.Also it started abruptly from nowhere.See the first post.It is continuation of some other post.

 

[protest]

Personally Joe, I wouldn't agree with having any ritual of any religion associated with any of our national projects but your argument that it is somehow done to antagonize the minorities sounds silly. These people are ignorant to believe there is significance to such rituals but there is no particular ill will against the minorities intended in my opinion. I wish there's France kind of secularism in India, but you also should well know, it won't work in India. I am also sure if a Christian were to head the project and if he goes to Church to get the grace of GOD for the project, Hindus for the most part would be okay with it.

 

[SamantK]

It's just this :

It's funny seeing these people who hide their own petty religious insecurities under the garb of science, logic, rationality and bring in all the minorities (Tamizh who have a separate festival Ayutha Puja to worship the tools of livelihood and Gorkhalis who are the ones who celebrate Durga Puja with gala and festivity in the Army) to put forth their own views. Such a see through. It only takes a little bit of scratching for the veneer to give way to the true feelings

True, he thinks that he knows all... sadly i think he does not know anything. he kept shifting as you said just to derail the topic at hand where we were talking About the scientific values to which he led to Muslim minorities..

 

[Tamizhan]

Oh, right. The koothuvilakku is the heritage of Christians and Muslims and Buddhists and Sikhs and Jains. .

Lighting a deepa is an integral part of all Indic religions and even Parsis who worship fire.

Again, stop using the names of other communities to hide your own insecurity. They don't deserve it.

 

[xenon]

What has this superstition got to do with the benefits claimed to have been gained by the Persians?
The numerology behind 786 as Bismillah is as regressive as the worst of what Hindu priests inflicted on Hindus in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. It is better for someone who believes in that kind of numerological mumbo-jumbo to set right the jackass who derived it from 'Om'. A jackass whose learning is limited to citing something uploaded on YouTube as evidence. My stomach can take so much and no more.

You got patience. Salute !! But I guess you feel you have responsibility towards.....

 

[Subramanian]

I am embarrassed by this habit of keeping a model of PSLV in Balaji's feet before taking off. Just because they work at Isro, it doesn't make them immune to stupidity.
I'd like to quote EVR.Periyar here,

" If an Indian steps on a piece of paper he thinks he has stepped on Goddess Saraswati , slapping his cheeks as punishment. A white man uses the same paper to wipe his a$$. But he is the one to send man to moon"



Oh yeah! crushing a lemon before the train is the best way to preserve our culture. lets first accept that we have a lot of stupidity in our society. The best way to get rid of it is to first accept it exists. Lets preserve the best of our culture and forget the rest.

Periyar is a moron,

He just taught people to trash talk and do nothing.

Many world famous Scientists are Jewish and many Indian Nobel winners are also religious people.

trying to use cause and effect relationship to this level is useless.

White man also discovered the Nuclear Bomb,almost all technological advances came in the wake of war/destruction,

so whats the point here?

Sending a man to the moon is more important than inventing numerals,is it?

Periyar says dont take a bath,dont waste water,he ll chop off his coconut groves because they are used for Toddy,

he is a solid moron paid off by missionaries.

 

[SamantK]

Personally Joe, I wouldn't agree with having any ritual of any religion associated with any of our national projects but your argument that it is somehow done to antagonize the minorities sounds silly. These people are ignorant to believe there is significance to such rituals but there is no particular ill will against the minorities intended in my opinion. I wish there's France kind of secularism in India, but you also should well know, it won't work in India. I am also sure if a Christian were to head the project and if he goes to Church to get the grace of GOD for the project, Hindus for the most part would be okay with it.

are you freaking kidding me, they will not be okay because Hindus think any prayer is good for something they toil so hard, they will be ecstatic!

 

[Tamizhan]

Disclaimer :

I did NOT open this thread. It is the work of some Mods. I posted my first post in the LCA thread as a matter of fact to show these things are in integral part in Indian industries and logged off. When I came back this had taken the avatar as a separate thread.

Not that I am embarassed as such for such practises, it is just that I dont pay much heed to them and will not think about opening a thread about it and unfortunately increase the insecurity of some people.

 

[Manas]

There is everything wrong in that. Science is the diametrical opposite of superstition. None of the practices mentioned are religion us; they are grotesque mumbo-jumbo from villages, favoured by backward villagers.

Besides, religion has no place in a secular republic.

Okay,lets send a memo to ISRO,DRDO and a capy to the Goorment.

 

[zer_0]

come on guys....cut the crap
there are more thread to discuss on PDF
this discussion is going nowhere:

 

[Joe Shearer]

Oh oh senor, just speak for yourself and what you are. No need to speak for others like Buddhists, Sikhs, Jain or Tamils, Gorkhali etc. No "Pakkathu elaikku payasam" please . If you dont know the meaning ask me.

I'm a Tamizh and I posted how Buddhist monks too do Bhumi Puja.

Coming to the "allowing to breathe", please tell me how crushing four lemons under a tank truck suffocates you until the lemons take on a whole different connotation ?

I will leave the rest of the monstrous example of unnecessary verbosity, which seems to be your favorite tactic of misleading readers, that was not needed in the first place .

Right.

When you jokers speak, you represent Indic civilisation. When I speak, I should speak for myself. Aren't you getting a bit obvious? And what if you are a Tamizh and posted about Buddhist monks doing Bhumi Puja? Naturally you will post whatever buttresses your argument that these have been universalised by usage, and are no longer outside the repertory of the customs of the minorities?

Second, it is not the four lemons, but the entire apparatus of coercion, the assumption that all good members of the team will participate, or else.....someone who already belongs to a minority, and is harshly conscious of the numbers of his or her community in stable employment, compared to the majority community's high and middle caste members, is hardly likely to make a stand on principle. Try to put yourself in their place; try to keep aside your existing persona for a second, and breathe their air, think their thoughts.

The high- and middle-castes will not change, that is a given. That is why they were brutally dispossessed, and are now migrants to every other geography under the Sun. It is a pity that even those traumatic happenings have not brought them some sensitivity and awareness about the plight of others even less fortunately placed than them, even after taking their sudden fall from grace into account.

 

[Subramanian]

It's funny seeing these people who hide their own petty religious insecurities under the garb of science, logic, rationality and bring in all the minorities (Tamizh who have a separate festival Ayutha Puja to worship the tools of livelihood and Gorkhalis who are the ones who celebrate Durga Puja with gala and festivity in the Army) to put forth their own views. Such a see through. It only takes a little bit of scratching for the veneer to give way to the true feelings

This is the result of the sad 60s,i tell you.

And please do not pull the dravidian minority bullshit,

I come from Kanyakumari/Tirunelveli the most dravidian of the dravidians and we are staunch hindus and even the Norther province in SriLanka are staunch hindus,

we have our own books,traditions,culture and we are no minorities.

I am tired of this DMK bullshit getting us a stereotype.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Now you are pulling things out of rear. Can you show me that anyone was 'compelled' to take part or is it just your fertile imagination clutching at straws ?

Not my rear. And I am averse to the rears of others. For reasons of hygiene, of course.

Can you imagine that there are compulsions other than at gunpoint? Can you tell me of a single instance of a ritual of this nature taking place, when you asked a minority colleague frankly if he or she was comfortable with it?