Indian court: We dont want Taliban (sic) in country

[anathema]

It's called the freedom to profess one's faith. The Indian court has proclaimed that keeping a beard would make you a terrorist like Taliban!

This is sick. Thank god for Pakistan!

Incorrect, this is called taking advantage of the freedom that country has bestowed upon you. This is applicable to all religions. If you want practice religion, no one is stopping it but it shouldnt be at the cost of twisting a rule which is already implemented. If that happens then it sets of a chain reaction of such actions. The idea of India for a indian is greater than the idea of religion (something personal).Indian court made the right decision with a incorrect choice of words. But considering the fact that Taliban has been getting great play time across all news channels, i can see where he got his words from, regrettable it is though.

 

[Awesome]

Incorrect, this is called taking advantage of the freedom that country has bestowed upon you. This is applicable to all religions. If you want practice religion, no one is stopping it but it shouldnt be at the cost of twisting a rule which is already implemented. If that happens then it sets of a chain reaction of such actions. The idea of India for a indian is greater than the idea of religion (something personal).Indian court made the right decision with a incorrect choice of words. But considering the fact that Taliban has been getting great play time across all news channels, i can see where he got his words from, regrettable it is though.

No actually there is no such thing as taking "advantage" of freedom. Freedoms are granted till the point where it starts to impede upon other people's freedoms.

One guy's beard does not do anything to another guys facial hair.

If that happens then it sets of a chain reaction of such actions

Aha, so you're afraid of setting off a chain reaction of people accepting Islam?

I've always maintained, when these non-Muslim people complain about bringing democracy and freedom to Muslim countries; when it actually does they won't be able to accept it. That is what India is.

 

[afriend]

Incorrect, this is called taking advantage of the freedom that country has bestowed upon you. This is applicable to all religions. If you want practice religion, no one is stopping it but it shouldnt be at the cost of twisting a rule which is already implemented. If that happens then it sets of a chain reaction of such actions. The idea of India for a indian is greater than the idea of religion (something personal).Indian court made the right decision with a incorrect choice of words. But considering the fact that Taliban has been getting great play time across all news channels, i can see where he got his words from, regrettable it is though.

Well.. i would say that Sikh ceases to be a Sikh if he shaves his beard and hair. That is the collective interpretation of the community and is the core to their belief india and across. And if you take 100 sikhs you will get 90 with beard and kripan(even though modern generation are moving away from it). However in case of muslims in india(Atleast) if you take 100 muslims and only 20 or 30 sport beard and stuff and only 10 percent or so wear burquas.. And in india there is no collective interpretation, practise or compulsion of growing a beard and wearing a burqua. The case is same with, hindus and chrstians.... You cannot wair a safron cloth to an school which have strict uniform code, even sikhs can't do that expect for their turban. However in saudi and other islamic countries people interrpet islam in more strict way, and there it is a neccessity that you wear burqa. Hence even non muslims to are forced to do that. That is their interrpetation of islam and law.


However in kerala in many a colleges you can see people sporting beard, comming in burqua.. christian brothers(those studying to be a priest) in white preiest dress.. etc.. So if a school doesnt allow you to sport a beard.. then you are always FREE IN INDIA to go to a school or place which allows you to do that. As mind you.. INDIA IS NOT BANNING THE BEARD.. like the TALIBAN is banning the shaving of beard for all in pakistan(SWAT for eg.)..!!!! But merely asking the boy to follow the rules..!!!!!


So it would be fair not to call indian judgement a hypocracy without understanding the social fabric and structure based upon which the judgement was made.

 

[notsuperstitious]

No actually there is no such thing as taking "advantage" of freedom. Freedoms are granted till the point where it starts to impede upon other people's freedoms.

One guy's beard does not do anything to another guys facial hair.


Aha, so you're afraid of setting off a chain reaction of people accepting Islam?

I've always maintained, when these non-Muslim people complain about bringing democracy and freedom to Muslim countries; when it actually does they won't be able to accept it. That is what India is.

in pakistan if one decides its his religious duty to wear the arabic dress (sunnat) to school instead of shirt, pants and a tie, is it allowed?

 

[karnivore]

Kudos to the judge, although, the mention of Taliban was in bad taste.

True, that "One guy's beard does not do anything to another guys facial hair", but if the institution has any specific rule against a "guy's beard", then the "guy's beard" infringes upon that rule.

Remember, "Your freedom ends where my freedom starts". That guy's freedom to grow beard infringes upon that institution's freedom to make and execute its own rules. And by taking admission to such institution, the guy has undertaken, expressly or otherwise, to abide by its rules.

The question therefore is not if the institute can force the guy to shave his beard, in accordance with its own rule - which it can if it has a rule as such. The question is, if such a rule, regarding beard, can be made. In other words, if the rules are in conformity to the basic fundamental rights enshrined in the constitution.

In order to prove that the rule (prohibiting the sporting of beard, by a practicing Muslim) is in contradiction to the fundamental right to religious practice, it needed to be established that growing of beard is inseparable from the practice of Islam.

Plaintiff, failed to do so, and hence the verdict. It has nothing to do with Shikhs or Hindus or anything else. The verdict is very much within the framework of the constitution.

 

[Screaming Skull]

No actually there is no such thing as taking "advantage" of freedom. Freedoms are granted till the point where it starts to impede upon other people's freedoms.

One guy's beard does not do anything to another guys facial hair.


Aha, so you're afraid of setting off a chain reaction of people accepting Islam?

I've always maintained, when these non-Muslim people complain about bringing democracy and freedom to Muslim countries; when it actually does they won't be able to accept it. That is what India is.

Well sir for all the practical experience that you may have I am afraid that you still fail to understand the concept of a secular state. In India all the citizens are Indians first and citizens of all religions accept this fact.

The premise on which the judge dismissed the case was that the institution did not allow beard as part of the dress code. Nowhere does it mention that it allows Sikhs with turbans.

I think every Indian member on this forum will agree with me that we have had at least one Muslim and Sikh classmate in our class right from first grade till college and grad school and this too by the most conservative estimates. The number has been much larger in my case. We have all lived in great harmony with one another for such a long time. India has more Muslims than even Pakistan. You can imagine if these guys had felt alienated in India then India would have collapsed long back.

I challenge you to show me a post of any Indian member on this forum who has degraded Islam or Muslims in anyway. If you cant find any it will because all Indians respect all religions irrespective of what bias we might have against them. But on the contrary we find the words Hundutva, Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Zionists lavishly tossed about and ridiculed in several posts.

 

[anathema]

No actually there is no such thing as taking "advantage" of freedom. Freedoms are granted till the point where it starts to impede upon other people's freedoms.

One guy's beard does not do anything to another guys facial hair.

Well said. In the same way people should not push the envelope of the freedom granted upon them to a point where it starts to impede with the rules set by School or a organisation. If that happens then its a breach of rules and in more serious cases termed as 'Breaking the law'.A religious angle in this case doesnt make any difference.

Aha, so you're afraid of setting off a chain reaction of people accepting Islam?

I've always maintained, when these non-Muslim people complain about bringing democracy and freedom to Muslim countries; when it actually does they won't be able to accept it. That is what India is.

Yes i am afraid. I am afraid not because more people will start accepting Islam (they are free to do so if they think so). I am afraid that if the Judge had granted rights, tomorrow a Hindu might file a case stating that 'He has every right to wear saffron or He has every right to wear Rudraksha" , tomorrow a christian might say "He has to wear a white robe to school" and so on so forth. If a Hindu or Christian might have filed these cases then Judge might not have any alternative but to say 'Yes' to all these people (sighting the above decision). This sort of chain reaction is unacceptable in a secular country like India where everything is in a balance. If this balance tips then you see religious fundamentalism poking its ugly head in national matter.

Again as i said the idea of India for a Indian (most of them) is greater than any religion be it Islam, Hinduism , Christianism , etc. religion comes later, country comes first.

 

[Goodperson]

What a weird discussion

1. Ruling was private institution.
2. It confirms that not everyone can keep beard except for Sikhs for them its part of religion.

Its true in western countries too.

Rest Hindus, Muslims, Jains Budhists etc cannot keep beard.

Period.

 

[wtf]

This is applicable to all religions. If you want practice religion, no one is stopping it but it shouldnt be at the cost of twisting a rule which is already implemented.

Actually Islamic/Sikh rules came before the school was established, so you can't really say this rule came first, so it is valid. I am almost certain Indian Civil code and constitution came before the convent school.

If there is full freedom for religion, I should be allowed to form a religion tomorrow that requires everyone to paint their hair purple and then go to school with purple hair. This is not the case in India. India allows freedom of religion but the written legal rules only go as far as civil code does. Whenever religion and other rules clash, the courts usually hold that other rules hold. If I formed a religion that advocated killing my neighbour, the court would jail me for advocting murder. So as far as Indian courts go, this is a perfect judgment - a religious belief clashes with school rule and court holds the school rule.

I would be concerned if the specific school allowed Sikhs to keep beard and Muslims not to. That would be discrimination (in my opinion). What is not clear in the article is whether the convent school even allowed Sikhs to keep a beard.

 

[SurvivoR]

Wearing of turbans by Sikhs is also a religious symbol why This School and Indian court did not ban Sikhs from wearing the religious symbol in this school?

Why this school allows breach of rules in case of Sikhs?

I wonder what if a Hindu girl who is married at early age goes to the school wearing that bindi on her forhead which is according to Hindu religion neccessary of a married Hindu girl?

And what if someone some non-Muslim like Hindus and Sikhs or Christian studying athe this school and keeps beared as a fashion ?

I think such rules are only a mockery.

It is sad they want to deprive people of education rather quality education.

Paranoid idiots.

Btw Man Mohan Singh also has a beared i wonder by standard of this Indian judge if Indian PM is Taliban ?

 

[rubyjackass]

No actually there is no such thing as taking "advantage" of freedom. Freedoms are granted till the point where it starts to impede upon other people's freedoms.

One guy's beard does not do anything to another guys facial hair.


Aha, so you're afraid of setting off a chain reaction of people accepting Islam?

I've always maintained, when these non-Muslim people complain about bringing democracy and freedom to Muslim countries; when it actually does they won't be able to accept it. That is what India is.

How about the freedom of school management to impose their own dress code?


Its not like the kid was asked to discontinue education. He was just asked to choose some other school.

I will tell you how I can take advantage of religious freedom. I say I will wear only a half pant above my knees and no shirt to school. And claim that my religion dictates so abt the dress I should wear. Others have no business about whether sucha religion is der or not. For that matter I will claim I am the prophet of my religion.
I will say I am willing to wear a tie around my neck. In a secular country, such a religion should be allowed to be free without regard to the number of people following it.. So provided I demonstrate enuf attachment to my religion, should I be allowed to wear this whatever I want?



If the above case sounded absurd, I will put a simpler question which you can understand.
A school has a uniform with a shirt and pant of some design. Now a guy comes and says he is a muslim and that he wants to wear kurtha till his knees to school. This is not necessary for Islma as scuh, but he claims he wants to follow the Prophet(PBUH) in thi s way and that the school should allow his religious practice. So will you allow him or not??



Simply put should muslim guys be allowed to wear kurtha in a school with a designated uniform? Answer atleast this. And then list your complainsts about Indian secularism..

 

[Kasrkin]

Kurtha has nothing to do with religion for God's sake ! The kurta we know today wasn't around when Islam started, how can it have anything to do with religion? If the school uniform covers those parts of the body that MUST be covered by the RULES of Islam then no one will have a problem. Type of dress has nothing to do with it, it is the level of physical exposure that Islam seeks to check.

Please check up on the basics before indulging in debates like these with Muslims.

 

[rubyjackass]

I wonder what if a Hindu girl who is married at early age goes to the school wearing that bindi on her forhead which is according to Hindu religion neccessary of a married Hindu girl?

FYI according to Hindu tradition, if a woman does not wear a bindi, she is a widow. or conversely only widows are supposed to stay without bindi. Happy?

One of my schools did not allow bindis, mehendi or nail polish as a matter of policy because these are things that may disturb boys But people live there without complaints.

And what if someone some non-Muslim like Hindus and Sikhs or Christian studying athe this school and keeps beared as a fashion ?

I think such rules are only a mockery.

No one will be allowed to maintain beards as I can see from the case. If they allowed it then the judgement would have been different.
Ok In this part you actually sound like a cry baby. At least word it subtly so that people feel your concern is genuine. You are just trying to prove that Indian secularism sucks.

Also for your comfort, I wamt to tell you this about India. In government schools with no dress code, students are allowed to grow beards and do whatever the hell the hell want to do with their body. Even in IITs students can grow beards.

 

[rubyjackass]

Kurtha has nothing to do with religion for God's sake ! The kurta we know today wasn't around when Islam started, how can it have anything to do with religion? If the school uniform covers those parts of the body that MUST be covered by the RULES of Islam then no one will have a problem. Type of dress has nothing to do with it, it is the level of physical exposure that Islam seeks to check.

Please check up on the basics before indulging in debates like these with Muslims.

Do not focus on 'kurtha'. I could not think of a nmae with which I can call such a dress.Take the question in spirit.

 

[Kasrkin]

You have to think of a legit example first if you want to make a point...

Islam does not set rules that dont make sense and hinder normal life; otherwise it is not a rule. That's the point you dont seem to understand.