Indian Build Up

[Samudra]

No.

 

[Bull]

No 6 squadron of RAF still has Jaguars and they had also participated in the Gulfwar 1.

 

[RAPTOR]

No 6 squadron of RAF still has Jaguars and they had also participated in the Gulfwar 1.

Can you provide a LINK to prove your claims?

 

[Neo]

India's air force 'needs to grow'

By Sanjeev Srivastava
BBC News, Delhi

The IAF cannot match private airlines' salaries, the IAF head says

The Indian Air Force (IAF) says it has ambitious plans to modernise and upgrade its fleet.
IAF chief SP Tyagi told the BBC that, with the growth in India's economy, there was a need for greater security in energy and economic areas.
Last week the BBC found that at least 200 IAF fighter pilots want to resign due to poor conditions.
The IAF chief also defended the use of ageing MiG planes despite their high accident rates.
New jets
The air chief marshal said that given India's economic growth, the need to protect trade routes would grow, increasing the demands placed on the IAF.

The IAF says it spends millions of rupees on each pilot's training


"But this reach will be of a strategic and defensive nature," he said.
The Indian government would soon be acquiring 120 new jets, 80 new helicopters and six new flight refuelling aircrafts, he said.
By the year 2020 all the IAF fighter jets would be modified for air-to-air refuelling to increase their reach.
The IAF will also start taking deliveries of 66 advance trainer jets (AJT)-Hawks from next year.
The IAF chief said the chances of a large scale conflict were reducing all over the world but the armed forces could not afford to be complacent.
Commercial lure
Air Chief Marshal Tyagi also put up a strong defence for India's ageing MiG fighters saying the aircraft had served the IAF well despite the high number of them that have crashed.
The IAF can "never even think about making airborne an aircraft which is not safe," he argued.

The IAF chief says MiG fighter planes are safe


He also spoke candidly on the issue of fighter pilots wanting to quit the IAF for better salaries being offered by private Indian airlines.
He admitted that a few pilots wanted to quit the IAF and had applied to air headquarters in this regard. But their number was in single digits and not in hundreds, he said.
"Everybody knows the Indian aviation sector is booming and there's a shortage of trained pilots. And the private sector offers 10 times the salary we offer.
"So obviously some of my boys would like to leave and I completely understand that," he said.
The air chief marshal said he did not begrudge the high salaries being offered to his pilots by private airlines. But he could not release pilots unless they were not required by the IAF.
"If there's a war how would it sound if I have to tell the government and the people of this country that 'sorry we can't fight as my boys are flying a civilian aircraft'." He said the government was committed to improving the working conditions of fighter pilots. But he said money and perks could not be the only motivating factor for an air force pilot.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4919420.stm

 

[Neo]

Press Trust of India

Washington, April 20, 2006

Boeing may sell as many as eight modified versions of the P-8A Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft (MMA) to India over a period of four years, according to reports.
Under a request for proposals announced by India, bids would have been submitted and the first of the deliveries would occur within 48 months of the award of the contract, said a report in a defence journal.

"Boeing's proposal includes the development of a unique Indian Navy P-8 configuration, a significant participation for Indian industry, test and certification activities and eight aircraft delivered over a four year period", the company has said, according to the report.

Picking the MMA would enable India to increase its maritime reconnaissance, submarine hunting and coastal patrol capabilities substantially, it said, but added that Boeing is expected to face competition for the Indian contract.

The MMA is based on the Boeing 737-800 commercial airliner featuring twin CFM56-7 jet engines by General Electric.

"We have proposed a unique system that will enhance the capability of the Indian Navy in anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare" said Rick Buck, the Boeing programme manager for P-8A international programmes.

"The increased range, speed, radius of action and advanced combat power inherent in our 21st century solution will enable the Indian Navy to fully patrol and influence events in its entire operational region.

"Additionally, the commonality inherent in our solution will greatly enhance the interoperability and supportability objectives publicly supported by both the US and Indian navies," the report quoted him as saying.

 

[miroslav]

er.....wasnt the Jaguar taken out of service and discarded in the 1990's by Britan and France?

Jaguar is still in the Royal Air Force service with 41sq,6sq,AWC-FJ&W OEU Sq, AMIF sq.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/jaguar.html

IAF operates 3 Jaguar versions.

IS; Single seater, low-level attack aircraft.
IM; Single seater, maritime attack aircraft
IB; Dual seater, used for training purposes.

The repeat orders of jaguar are mainly to replace the 25 year old retired/scrapped Jaguars.

and isnt the Jaguar the same aircraft that rolled out of HAL that iaf pilots REFUSED to fly??

I dont want to divert the topic.

Either you provide the source or else I will do the needful to counterclaim your above statement.

Miro

​

 

[Munir]

IAF did refuse to fly HAL jaguars cause they had different parts then the standard. Consider me as a source. Somehow I have to deliver you the parts and even then you do not believe it. And Jaguars is pretty much out of the western arena. Do read Airforcesmonthly.

 

[Jay_]

Sorry for threadcrapping Miroslav, but this is in response to Munir's accusations.

An IAF spokesman rejected reports that the crash of the Jaguars near Sonamarg in Jammu and Kashmir on Friday was due to faulty spares. According to him, prima facie, the crash had nothing to do with spares and it was due to bad weather. He said the accident will be fully examined by a court of inquiry which has already been instituted.

http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/apr052004/n5.asp

Jaguar crashed due to engine fault
One more found defective
Girja Shankar Kaura
Tribune News Service

New Delhi, July 20
The experts here have found fault in engines of the just two Jaguar aircraft among the entire fleet, which had been brought to ground recently for check-up at the Ambala air base.

IAF officials here said the experts called in specially, from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and British Aerospace (BAE) along with the air force engineers, carried out intensive checks on the entire fleet stationed at Ambala base and found defect in just one aircraft besides the one which had crashed leading to the aircraft being brought to the ground for inspection.

Officials said that in fact the endurance of the aircraft came in for test after the checks on ground by HAL and BAE experts when four of the aircraft from the fleet flew all the way from Ambala to Alaska to participate in Cope Thunder 2004 exercises with the USAF. Taking off from the Ambala base on June 21 last, the four aircraft along with the other IAF aircraft, including two of the latest IL-78 midair refuelling aircraft, reached Alaska on July 10 and have been participating in the Cope Thunder exercises.

The IAF had ‘brought to ground’ the entire fleet of its Jaguar fighter aircraft in late May to check on a technical defect, which had caused some of these planes to crash on routine sorties.

The court of inquiry set up to investigate the crash of a Jaguar fighter aircraft on May 7, 12 km north of Ambala, had pointed out a snag in the engine, which had led to the crash. A split-pin in the engine was found missing, which apparently led to the crash.

As a result the Air Headquarters had ordered that Jaguar aircraft be ‘brought to ground’ for a complete check-up before they were cleared for flying again. The aircraft were cleared for flying one at a time, after a complete check by experts.

The IAF has about 80 Jaguar aircraft of which four have crashed till now in 2004.

The British Aerospace experts, original manufactures of Jaguars, had been called in this time after the snag was detected. The experts from HAL and the manufacturers checked every aircraft for its technical quality and declared it fit for flying again.

In fact the checks were carried out at all the stations where the IAF had four of its Jaguar squadrons stationed. Besides Ambala, the Jaguars are also based at Gorakhpur and Pune.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040721/nation.htm#5
Now, lets stay on the topic.

 

[miroslav]

IAF did refuse to fly HAL jaguars cause they had different parts then the standard.

Apart from IAF the HAL also does overhauling for Royal Omanian Air Force Jaguars. They never had any complain.

HAL is also an exporter of Jaguar airframe spares to BAE Systems itlsef.

http://hal-india.com/AircraftBangalore/products.asp

Miro

 

[RAPTOR]

Apart from IAF the HAL also does overhauling for Royal Omanian Air Force Jaguars. They never had any complain.

HAL is also an exporter of Jaguar airframe spares to BAE Systems itlsef.

http://hal-india.com/AircraftBangalore/products.asp

Miro

The IAF pilots refused to fly the Jaguars manufactured by HAL. This issue has been discussed thoroughly and all the links have been posted to verify the news.

 

[Jay_]

The IAF pilots refused to fly the Jaguars manufactured by HAL. This issue has been discussed thoroughly and all the links have been posted to verify the news.

Where did you pull that from??:idiot:
I have posted the most current news which says all the Jags were certified by HAL and BAE.
IAF also categorically denied the reports that the crashes were not coz of faulty spares.

 

[RAPTOR]

This article is in simple English. :stupid:​

Indian pilots refuse to fly new Jaguars

New Delhi—After recent grounding of ‘Dhruv’, the advanced light helicopters, it is the turn of Jaguar deep penetration strike fighters to come under a cloud.
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has refused to fly Jaguars recently delivered by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). IAF has expressed concern over some problems in the basic manufacture of the airframes of the two twin-seater handed over to IAF Station, Ambala.
IAF has blamed HAL for using non-standard hydraulic and fuel pipelines, which are different from the ones in the Jaguars being blown by IAF. This has caused operational and maintenance problems.
IAF had inducted 40 Jaguars from United Kingdom in early 1980s. It was followed by indigenous manufacture of another 108 Jaguar fighters by HAL under license from British Aerospace.
Just like the MiGs, the Jaguars have encountered a large number of accidents. For this reason, the youngsters who were scared of flying MiGs commonly known as “flying coffins,” are now reluctant to fly new Jaguars. Over 40 Jaguars have been “destroyed” in accidents, killing 15 pilots, since they were first inducted. For over a decade, the Indian Air Force has been loosing an average of nearly two aircraft every month. Since 37 years, Russian MiG fighters have crashed in large numbers causing widespread unrest in the IAF.
MiG 21, 23 and 27’s assembled or manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) divisions at Nasik, Sonabeda and elsewhere have crashed at the rate of 25 to 30 aircraft per year - This means loss of 500 MiG fighters and death of equal number of fighter pilots during the last two decades.
Between January 1993 and July 2003, the IAF lost more than 208 aircraft. According to a statistical analysis, 136 aircraft were lost between January 1998 to July 2003 as against 80 lost between 1993-97.
MiG-21s accounted for 61 out of 136 accidents, MiG-23s for 10, MiG-27s for 13 and MiG-29s for 3. Besides the loss of inventory upwards of Rs. 1,200 crores, the accidents claimed the lives of 67 pilots and other aircrew.
In addition, eight deep strike Jaguars, 10 Cheetah helicopters and 7 Kiran trainers crashed during the past few years. According to defence analysts, the future of IAF seems to be dismal. Due to denied promotions, abysmal flight safety record, inefficiency and sub-standard manufacture of HAL, indiscipline and other reasons, it seems unlikely that the Indian youth would prefer to choose the IAF as a career any longer.—APP


http://pakobserver.net/200603/15/news/world03.asp

 

[Jay_]

The news source is APP and is copied by Pak Observer and you call it a source? Bravo!!

 

[RAPTOR]

IAF did refuse to fly HAL jaguars cause they had different parts then the standard. Consider me as a source. Somehow I have to deliver you the parts and even then you do not believe it. And Jaguars is pretty much out of the western arena. Do read Airforcesmonthly.

We have discussed this on here previously, but for some odd reason , The issue seems to be embarrasing to "some". Hence rebuttals are posted along with links dating back to 2004 denying the obvious and making excuses after excuses for their incompetent failures. :idiot:

 

[Jay_]

Hold on, I'm not the one who claimed that it was all over the news that IAF refused to fly Jaguars. You said that and after pressing further you gave a news excerpt from APP and claim it as a source. Where did APP get the news from?? IAF insider?? :idiot:

If at all there is incomptence, its yours, in proving your point.:stupid: