Indian army to upgrade infantry weapons (New Assault Rifle)

[Water Car Engineer]

NEW DELHI, Nov. 19 (UPI) -- The Indian army is implementing its Future Infantry Soldier Program 2020.

A key component of the program is to upgrade Indian army infantry weapons. The upgraded weapons to be acquired include foreign-made assault rifles, carbines, light machine guns and sniper rifles over the next two years, as they are lighter and have longer ranges than indigenously made weaponry.

To fill an initial order for 60,000 assault rifles, in the past two weeks the army has completed initial user trials of five guns contending for the contract, including U.S. firms Beretta and Colt, Israel's IWI, Switzerland's Sig-Sauer and Czech Republic's Ceska. Technical evaluations are to commence shortly, The Pioneer newspaper reported.

The winning assault rifle will come equipped with two 5.56mm and 7.62mm caliber interchangeable barrels along with conversion kits, with the 5.56mm option being used in a conventional war fighting role as the barrel will provide longer range, while 7.62mm configuration will be used in counter-terrorism and the counter-insurgency environment, as it will provide troops the capability to fire like AK-56 rifles.

Indian army to upgrade infantry weapons - UPI.com

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Beretta ARX160

7.62X39mm

5.56x45mm

Colt MGI multi-caliber

7.62X39mm

5.56x45mm

IWI Galil ACE Series

7.62X39mm

5.56x45mm

 

[Gessler]

I hope CTAR-21 is selected.

On the SMG front, the MSMC seems to be the best option.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Switzerland's Sig-Sauer

7.62X39mm

5.56x45mm

Czech Republic's Ceska

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

Even Singapore which is a city state makes its own infantry guns. What A SHAME!! Looser.

 

[Gessler]

Even Singapore which is a city state makes its own infantry guns. What A SHAME!! Looser.

If DRDO can build ICBM, why cant they build small arms?

Reason is that no one would sell you an ICBM, while even puny countries like Singapore will sell you
infantry small arms, along iwth kickbacks.

The reason is the corrupt govt and military top-brass who want their kickbacks first and indigenisation
later. A strong and politically determined govt. could put an end to this boulderdash but the people
of India have no time to think about voting such a Government into power.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

If DRDO can build ICBM, why cant they build small arms?

Reason is that no one would sell you an ICBM, while even puny countries like Singapore will sell you
infantry small arms, along iwth kickbacks.

The reason is the corrupt govt and military top-brass who want their kickbacks first and indigenisation
later. A strong and politically determined govt. could put an end to this boulderdash but the people
of India have no time to think about voting such a Government into power.

Yeah, thats the reason.

 

[acetophenol]

Even Singapore which is a city state makes its own infantry guns. What A SHAME!! Looser.

Being a City or Nation doesn't mean that you have to do all things by yourselves. India has the capability to make its own rifler to satisfy its own needs. India has made its own rifles for the armed forces i.e, SLR ,INSAS,A 7 etc so far.


Indian Agencies are in work with new rifles. Its time to absorb the best from around the world in the least possible time. I am happy that we are having money and diplomatic relations for that.

 

[MilSpec]

If DRDO can build ICBM, why cant they build small arms?

Reason is that no one would sell you an ICBM, while even puny countries like Singapore will sell you
infantry small arms, along iwth kickbacks.

The reason is the corrupt govt and military top-brass who want their kickbacks first and indigenisation
later. A strong and politically determined govt. could put an end to this boulderdash but the people
of India have no time to think about voting such a Government into power.

Even Singapore which is a city state makes its own infantry guns. What A SHAME!! Looser.

Insas rifle system has been a very effective low cost solution that utilized the best to offer from three rifle systems, viz. AK47, FN FAL, and the M16.

The action, long stroke gas system, rotating bolt, and stamped steel receiver gives it the ruggedness and reliability of an AK47, the Gas regulator from the FAL give it the ability to cycle rounds, even if the rifle’s gas piston is clogged. Although It has a stamped receiver, the tolerances are kept significantly tight along with the lesser reciprocating breach axis offset compared to AK, gives it reliable accuracy.

Although 5.56x 45 Nato attracts a lot of flak from critics, it is the most flat shooting round upto 300 yards, and is effective up to 600 yards. Although 7.62 x 39, the AK round has better terminal ballistics, the rounds justs drops too much. When 7.62 x 39 is zeroed at 100 yards, the compensation at 400 yards is nearly 60 inches making the target nearly disappear from the sight picture( which is the engagement range for IA positions in LOC), With a 5.56 you will have to compensate lesser, but compromise on terminal ballistics which a fair tradeoff, as you are hitting the target (if not completely neutralizing him).

Insas is controllable in full auto like the m16, whereas FAL becomes an ack ack in full auto and ak you spray and pray. Please bear in mind when the Insas came out, there was no 6.8 SPC or the 6.5 grendel options hence 5.56 was lesser of evil when it came to developing a battle rifle.
All these mix and match features gave you a reliable, low cost, accurate rifle borrowing on best features of contemporaries and minimizing drawbacks of the each mentioned systems.

Future of Insas rifle system:

Now India is in a position where stamped low cost rifle is not the need of the hour. New Insas or the F-Insas needs to have a solid machined receiver with high quality metals and precision machining.

New rifle system needs to be modular with 4 barrel systems and 5 quick change receivers, One barrel system can fire both 7.62x 39 and with change in receiver on the same barrel should accommodate the 7.62 x 51 nato (both the cartridges have same bullet but different casing lengths)

There should be dedicated receiver and barells for , 5.56 Nato, 6.8 SPC and a short barell system for OFB 5.56 x 30 round as a cqb carbine.

The system needs to be a bullpup system.

Rifle needs to have integrated peep sights, picatinny optics rails on and a quad rail system on the forward grips.

Rifle should also have tapped barrels and should come with a breaching flash hiders, a muzzle brake (for 7.62x 51) and a suppressor (for 5.56 x 30).

 

[Abingdonboy]

Yes this is INCREDIBLY shameful for India especially at a time when India is making satillites, tanks,fighter jets, SSBNs,stealth warships,ACCs, SAMs etc it is beyond a JOKE! But the OFB have to take accountability for this to a high degree, they just don't seem to have the foresight or mindset to want to deliver more than adequate (what the INSAS just about was). Compared to these foreign arms the INSAS really is found lacking and I haven't seen any Indian company devlop a rifle comparable with the best out there. Why should the IA have to accept sub-standard equipment just because indigenous companies are lacking in this field??


Hey, it is what it is-no point crying over spilled milk.


Hopefully by the time the IA is looking for its next gen rifle in 20-30 years an Indian rifle will be in the fray and will win.





My 2 favorites are the BERETTA and the 805 BREN. Both VERY nice weapons.

The system needs to be a bullpup system.

Why does it "need" to be bullpup? Seems IA doesn't agree- none of the rifles on offer are bullpups.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

Being a City or Nation doesn't mean that you have to do all things by yourselves.

You are saying as if we develop 90% of our weapon systems inhouse. Rifle and ammunition are the most basic things that are required to fight a war. India has so many insurgencies and so needs rifles and ammunition in large numbers. So, for India to depend on others for rifles and ammunition is strategically and economically unwise and stupid and kargil is a good example of that.

India has the capability to make its own rifler to satisfy its own needs. India has made its own rifles for the armed forces i.e, SLR ,INSAS,A 7 etc so far.

Yeah that is the reason it is shameful that inspite of having the known how, experience and R&D capabilities for such a basic system like rifle, we are wasting our resources on import. Rifle design is not engine technology that requires huge R&D investment. If IA feels that current indigenous rifles are heavy and have less range, then how hard it would be to rectify these short comings in house in 2-3 years? But the real question is whether IA is really interested in indigenisation of defense systems or not, which does not seem to be the case here as rejecting every system (rifle, atgm, tank etc) that comes out of DRDO is the doctrine of IA generals. This import friendly culture of IA will render our R&D capabilities impotent and we will always be dependent on others for latest tech.

Indian Agencies are in work with new rifles. Its time to absorb the best from around the world in the least possible time. I am happy that we are having money and diplomatic relations for that.

after having decades of experience in developing our own INSAS, It is time to put that learning experience into developing next gen INSAS. What best from around? Do you mean to say that IA will be importing some 5th gen rifle technology that we cannot develop in house? rifle technology reached its saturation level long back and most of the rifles designs are open secret, it is not like most of the aerospace technologies that are still changing every 5-6 years. DRDO has developed so many rifles in house based on all kind of mechanisms, but god knows what super duper rifle technology IA is looking for, example what super duper technology does Beretta and Colt, Israel's IWI, Switzerland's Sig-Sauer and Czech Republic's Ceska that is beyond DRDO capabilities?

 

[MilSpec]

Yes this is INCREDIBLY shameful for India especially at a time when India is making satillites, tanks,fighter jets, SSBNs,stealth warships,ACCs, SAMs etc it is beyond a JOKE! But the OFB have to take accountability for this to a high degree, they just don't seem to have the foresight or mindset to want to deliver more than adequate (what the INSAS just about was). Compared to these foreign arms the INSAS really is found lacking and I haven't seen any Indian company devlop a rifle comparable with the best out there. Why should the IA have to accept sub-standard equipment just because indigenous companies are lacking in this field??

Lets not blame Indigenous companies, Firearms is a big no no for private companies due to two primary reasons: Lack of domestic market(enjoyed by american firearms), prohibition of export (market heavily relied upon by euro/chinese firearms). Due to such conditions OFB enjoys monopoly in this market which is primarily high volume.

As far as design and manufacture is concerned, I can assure you I can develop a better rifle system than the one currently fielded by the OFB right in the league of masada and tavor , But If I take a prototype and a proposal to India, I can assure you I wont find any investors, government or private.

My 2 favorites are the BERETTA and the 805 BREN. Both VERY nice weapons.

Why does it "need" to be bullpup? Seems IA doesn't agree- none of the rifles on offer are bullpups.

Why bulpup? The answer is personal choice, I own both an AKM and Ar15, I have put more than 1500 rounds down civilian ACR and 4 months ago I got the opportunity to shoot the MSAR (Aug A3 semi auto) and finally the FN2000 (Full Auto in vegas). I found bullpups advantages outweigh its disadvantages. Target acquisitions are more efficient, with a full size barrel and loaded mag rifle is much more balanced compared to conventional ones. Ejection port issue for left handed shooters is very easily addressed by FN2000 and on Tavor too, as for Steyr and others, needed modifications can be made to accommodate such changes. My bias towards bull pups are of complete personal preference as a marksman.

from the list IWI is in contention and seems like their entry would be a tavor with interchangeable barell. And dont pay too much faith in the article, there is no such thing as ak56.

 

[MilSpec]

You are saying as if we develop 90% of our weapon systems inhouse. Rifle and ammunition are the most basic things that are required to fight a war. India has so many insurgencies and so needs rifles and ammunition in large numbers. So, for India to depend on others for rifles and ammunition is strategically and economically unwise and stupid and kargil is a good example of that.



Yeah that is the reason it is shameful that inspite of having the known how, experience and R&D capabilities for such a basic system like rifle, we are wasting our resources on import. Rifle design is not engine technology that requires huge R&D investment. If IA feels that current indigenous rifles are heavy and have less range, then how hard it would be to rectify these short comings in house in 2-3 years? But the real question is whether IA is really interested in indigenisation of defense systems or not, which does not seem to be the case here as rejecting every system (rifle, atgm, tank etc) that comes out of DRDO is the doctrine of IA generals. This import friendly culture of IA will render our R&D capabilities impotent and we will always be dependent on others for latest tech.




after having decades of experience in developing our own INSAS, It is time to put that learning experience into developing next gen INSAS. What best from around? Do you mean to say that IA will be importing some 5th gen rifle technology that we cannot develop in house? rifle technology reached its saturation level long back and most of the rifles designs are open secret, it is not like most of the aerospace technologies that are still changing every 5-6 years. DRDO has developed so many rifles in house based on all kind of mechanisms, but god knows what super duper rifle technology IA is looking for, example what super duper technology does Beretta and Colt, Israel's IWI, Switzerland's Sig-Sauer and Czech Republic's Ceska that is beyond DRDO capabilities?

Hen and egg situation at hand. Government wont change it's firearms policy in domestic and export regimes, wont license private players to get in the game, Hence no competition. In automobile analogy OFB will continue to field "bajaj chetak" type rifles, Now if you do want "Yamaha R1" type systems, start opening up the market, change the firearms policies drafted by the british, there are 5 distinct firearms segments where there can be successful product placement. When that day happens, forget assault rifles, I will be setting shop in India to make finest hand crafted shotguns for export market.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

Hen and egg situation at hand. Government wont change it's firearms policy in domestic and export regimes, wont license private players to get in the game, Hence no competition. In automobile analogy OFB will continue to field "bajaj chetak" type rifles, Now if you do want "Yamaha R1" type systems, start opening up the market, change the firearms policies drafted by the british, there are 5 distinct firearms segments where there can be successful product placement. When that day happens, forget assault rifles, I will be setting shop in India to make finest hand crafted shotguns for export market.

private sector can be involved to serve demands from IA, not beyond that. Domestic Fire arm policies are good as they prevent accidents like what happened in US this year or what happens in pakistan daily. DRDO has developed good rifles like TAR, kalantak, MSMC. Much more can be achieved, provided IA takes some interest and puts some effort along with DRDO.

What is wrong with TAR? no kickbacks??

 

[MilSpec]

^Sure.........