Indian Army rejects calls to raise new units based on caste or religion

[Yaduveer]

This is oxymoronic statement from Our army, on one hand they want to retain old caste based army units but denying that status to other castes in name of all India infantry.Why don't they to reform all caste based regiments into all India infantry?

Following are ill effect of current system
1. Ahirs/Yadavs hold grudges against Jaats because later have a regiment in name of Jaat regiment. similar is case with Gurjars.
2. If there regiment like Punjab,Rajputana,Assam Rifles(Paramilitary),Jammu&kashmir light infantry then what is wrong with Gujrat regiment, Look at following quote in same news.

"Jawans, with similar language and eating habits, have kinship, brotherhood...they form a cohesive fighting force. Even in mixed class regiments like Grenadiers, individual companies - the basic fighting units — are `pure'," said a Colonel.

Either scrap all caste/religion names from Regiments or name the regiments according to achievements and demands of a community but this double standards of Army should have no place in democracy like India.plz STOP this Apartheid

 

[MehrotraPrince]

Really? The reason for phrases like "Islamic terrorism" or "Hindu terrorism" is because of people who crack cheap jokes?

Maybe the reason for the existence of such phrases is because there are people who kill innocent people, blow up buses and trains, shoot people in cities, all in the name of religion.

You are trivializing religious terrorism when you equate cracking jokes to such acts.

Note: I completely disagree with his remarks.

Its not about trivializing religious terrorism, its about persons mentality, its about how you think. Its not just about slip of tongue or joke, because mostly you say what you practice or other reason is bad mouth (less use of brain before writing or speaking). If you believe in Islamic Terrorism then better start believing that Hindu terrorism also exist.

No religion preaches Hate or Terrorism. You wrongly interpret any religion and feed it to innocent mind and you will get a new seed of Terrorism.

 

[Koovie]

No the most sucessful regiments have been the Sikh, the Rajputs, the Kumaonis, Rajputana, Gorkhas,Maratha etc.

And if I am not wrong, even inside the Paras, at the battalion level it is ethnicity based.




That will be a disaster if it ever happened. Keep the bullshit of political secularism away from the army. The army is the only true secular institution in India as of now.

You can argue about the success of different regiments for hours and AFAIK the battalions in the Para regiment arent structured after race.


Why is it a disaster??? and when did I talk about political secularism, I just said that all recruitment should be done without considering race, religion or caste.
Its just a reminder of the raj nothing else. IA should look at the IAF and IN which both scrapped this BS race/ religion stuff

 

[arp2041]

I have seen peoples from general class paying bribes to Panchayets to make SC/ST certificate. So the cream isn't going to the class where it is supposed to go.

And if the father gets college education and job because of his caste, which does cause economic upliftment of the family, then what justifies his son to get the same?

Totally Agree with you, our constitutional framers were one of the most SANEST people, they knew that Reservations are the necessity for Indian society since the lower castes had thousands of years of discrimination & poverty behind them, this inequality can only be bridged by giving them some amount of equal status in society through reservation. But over the years a good social initiative has been shadowed by the politics of it & now every political party wants to score political brownie points over it.

As it is, NO system is 100% perfect anyways, there are some inherent flaws into it which you underscored with your point. But you will also agree that if it was not for reservations, many crores of Indians were still living in poverty & discrimination. So if the system is flawed you don't have any right to blame entire community for it.

I m sorry for my earlier comment, i m glad u brought this topic, it's better to talk & lessen the differences than to die keeping the differences inside you.

 

[Abingdonboy]

And if I am not wrong, even inside the Paras, at the battalion level it is ethnicity based.

.

No this is categorically UNTRUE. In the Paras there is no such thing as ethnicity based units (btns, companies,platoons etc). The Paras are drawn from every corner of the IA- they all have to pass the same gruelling selection process no matter what their background. Paras are 100% "all-India" units-No such thing as a ethnicity based PARA unit.


As such the Paras (the most elite units of the IA) should be held up as an example to all those fools saying that if people with similar ethnic backgrounds fought together they'd be more effective. The untis should select the best INDIANS based on merit. Quotas and or ethnic affiliation units have no place in the modern day Indian military.


I still find the IA is rooted in the past whilst the IA and IAF (who have never had such discussions about ethnic unit) and are inherently all Indian units have had any problems on this front and seem to be much more foreword thinking than the IA.

 

[janon]

No this is categorically UNTRUE. In the Paras there is no such thing as ethnicity based units (btns, companies,platoons etc). The Paras are drawn from every corner of the IA- they all have to pass the same gruelling selection process no matter what their background. Paras are 100% "all-India" units-No such thing as a ethnicity based PARA unit.


As such the Paras (the most elite units of the IA) should be held up as an example to all those fools saying that if people with similar ethnic backgrounds fought together they'd be more effective. The untis should select the best INDIANS based on merit. Quotas and or ethnic affiliation units have no place in the modern day Indian military.


I still find the IA is rooted in the past whilst the IA and IAF (who have never had such discussions about ethnic unit) and are inherently all Indian units have had any problems on this front and seem to be much more foreword thinking than the IA.

The para commando battalions are organized according to specialty. One for jungle warfare, two (I think) for deserts, two for mountains and so on. All of them are trained for all terrains, but the operational battalions are organized in such a manner so as to make equipment and deployment efficient.

And you are right that the success of the para commandos is ample proof that you don't need to belong to the same clan or caste or religion to have group unity and cohesion.

When the IPKF fought in the jungles of sri lanka, both regular battalions as well as paras were deployed in the jungles. The regular units, when they came under fire, or were ambushed, sometimes retreated, leaving their injured comrades behind. The paras, mostly working in small unit teams, did NO SUCH THING. Every injured para commando was brought back by the team, at great peril to their own lives. On the battlefield, in the jungles, when the bullets were flying all around, the paras did not ask themselves if their injured comrade was a Marathi or a Madrasi or a Sikh. They had only one thing in mind - return their injured comrade to safety. The regular units, despite being all from the same caste or clan or whatever, did not always live up to that standard.

Caste or ethnicity is not what causes bonding among humans. Language, region etc do cause some feeling of camaraderie. But even that is not really necessary, because when you train together and toil together and eat under the same roof and sleep together in the same bunkers, and patrol the LoC and the godforsaken mountains together, camaraderie and kinship will come automatically. Whether the other fellow is from your caste or not.

 

[Echo_419]

chut*** mai ST hu aur mera bap hak ki kamiye se muje khana kilata hai
kabi bhi qote ka sahara nahi leya hai maine apni zendagi mei

& I hate this reservation system too

 

[Yaduveer]

chut*** mai ST hu aur mera bap hak ki kamiye se muje khana kilata hai
kabi bhi qote ka sahara nahi leya hai maine apni zendagi mei

& I hate this reservation system too

How the hell question of Reservation came into this matter ?

 

[perplexed]

chut*** mai ST hu aur mera bap hak ki kamiye se muje khana kilata hai
kabi bhi qote ka sahara nahi leya hai maine apni zendagi mei

& I hate this reservation system too

there is no shame in taking advantage of quota

 

[Abingdonboy]

The para commando battalions are organized according to specialty. One for jungle warfare, two (I think) for deserts, two for mountains and so on. All of them are trained for all terrains, but the operational battalions are organized in such a manner so as to make equipment and deployment efficient.

And you are right that the success of the para commandos is ample proof that you don't need to belong to the same clan or caste or religion to have group unity and cohesion.

When the IPKF fought in the jungles of sri lanka, both regular battalions as well as paras were deployed in the jungles. The regular units, when they came under fire, or were ambushed, sometimes retreated, leaving their injured comrades behind. The paras, mostly working in small unit teams, did NO SUCH THING. Every injured para commando was brought back by the team, at great peril to their own lives. On the battlefield, in the jungles, when the bullets were flying all around, the paras did not ask themselves if their injured comrade was a Marathi or a Madrasi or a Sikh. They had only one thing in mind - return their injured comrade to safety. The regular units, despite being all from the same caste or clan or whatever, did not always live up to that standard.

Caste or ethnicity is not what causes bonding among humans. Language, region etc do cause some feeling of camaraderie. But even that is not really necessary, because when you train together and toil together and eat under the same roof and sleep together in the same bunkers, and patrol the LoC and the godforsaken mountains together, camaraderie and kinship will come automatically. Whether the other fellow is from your caste or not.

Nice post but one correction- PARA (SF) are no longer organised along lines of specialties- all btns are cross trained and able to carry out any type of mission that any other btn is.

 

[janon]

Nice post but one correction- PARA (SF) are no longer organised along lines of specialties- all btns are cross trained and able to carry out any type of mission that any other btn is.

I know that they are cross trained, I mentioned that in my post. But a battalion deployed in Siachen wouldn't have the equipment necessary for jungle warfare, and a battalion deployed in the hot deserts of rajasthan wouldn't have the required camo or equipment for mountain warfare. If the need arises, of course they can be sent to whichever corner they are required.

I was wrong when I said "according to specialty". According to operational requirement may be more apt, since they don't have exclusive specialization anymore.

 

[Echo_419]

there is no shame in taking advantage of quota

No i wanna show you upper caste boyz Mr Skull & bones that we SC/ST are not all same & thrive on quota

 

[Abingdonboy]

I know that they are cross trained, I mentioned that in my post. But a battalion deployed in Siachen wouldn't have the equipment necessary for jungle warfare, and a battalion deployed in the hot deserts of rajasthan wouldn't have the required camo or equipment for mountain warfare. If the need arises, of course they can be sent to whichever corner they are required.

This goes without saying mate.

 

[arp2041]

No i wanna show you upper caste boyz Mr Skull & bones that we SC/ST are not all same & thrive on quota

Relax Buddy, some Indians do get pissed off by the politics of the reservations but @Skull and Bones brought a good suggestion that it should be a poverty based reservation than a community based, this is a suggestion which our leaders should think of seriously.

We should always be open to hear from the other side, this is what the forums are for & this is why India is called a DEMOCRACY.

 

[perplexed]

No i wanna show you upper caste boyz Mr Skull & bones that we SC/ST are not all same & thrive on quota

sc/sts are socially backward.. PERIOD! not maybe in towns but definitely in villages.

Just for friday night kicks, frame an ad in a matrimony site quoting top class salary and degrees from IITB/IIMA and what not but from SC/ST and whoever does it, plz get back here with the no of replies you got from higher class wannabe brides !