Indian Air Force restructures $17 billion fighter jet program

[A.P. Richelieu]

This is embarrassing

Last week a defense minister said mmrca mark 2 is cancelled ie no money and that only tejas and 36 rafale would come next 10 years.

Then the airchief of indian air force said we will acquire both tejas and mmrca

So what goes here

Since IAFs needs haven’t changed, the plan of replacing 81 Tejas MkIA and 114 MMRCAs with 81 Tejas MkIA had a wee bit of a problem.

• It was Bollocks.

 

[Nilgiri]

Since IAFs needs haven’t changed, the plan of replacing 81 Tejas MkIA and 114 MMRCAs with 81 Tejas MkIA had a wee bit of a problem.

• It was Bollocks.

It was bad way to put it by CDS yup. IAF has clarified the MMRCA (most likely rafale lets be real here...) acquisition process will continue alongside the tejas one.

The Tejas selection was replacing the other "exotic" ones trying to join the fray like F-21. It's actually an older news too.

As you may have learned from your own experience thus far in the forum, its also best to ignore the uneducated trolls on this forum that fester in these threads...right on cue.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

It was bad way to put it by CDS yup. IAF has clarified the MMRCA (most likely rafale lets be real here...) acquisition process will continue alongside the tejas one.

The Tejas selection was replacing the other "exotic" ones trying to join the fray like F-21. It's actually an older news too.

The F-21 is participating in the MMRCA so no.
The explanation is probably much simpler than that. The minister said something that the press would like to hear, and he got away with it because the journalist were busy congratulating themselves.
It would be totally stupid to run a new competition to select the same machine that was selected in the previous competition. Modi has already told the IAF that the Rafale is nice, but India can not afford it. If the F-16 was the preferred aircraft, why wait several years to induct the plane instead of getting started.
If Modi wants Gripen E/F, then he knows he has to wait a little bit more (but not much) for Gripen to become available.
With the new SAAB GaN based Radar it would be worth waiting for.

 

[SQ8]

It was bad way to put it by CDS yup. IAF has clarified the MMRCA (most likely rafale lets be real here...) acquisition process will continue alongside the tejas one.

The Tejas selection was replacing the other "exotic" ones trying to join the fray like F-21. It's actually an older news too.

As you may have learned from your own experience thus far in the forum, its also best to ignore the uneducated trolls on this forum that fester in these threads...right on cue.

That all being said, there is a clear indication of poor program management within Indian defense procurement that contributes to ineffective combat solutions.

There needs to be dedicated program/project management introspective and an excellence center if these gluts are going to be resolved.

Otherwise regardless of equal training or skillsets, the Indian military will find itself facing enemies with systems that either dont work for the required need or that are not interoperable; leaving each man to fight their own war.

As Abhinandan demonstrated, those efforts really don’t work in today’s environment

 

[Nilgiri]

The F-21 is participating in the MMRCA so no.

That was messed up too (OG's vs later entrants worming their way in...so we have MMRCA original vs MMRCA+ and MMRCA++ and whatever else). Trust me these defence honchos are friggin dumb and clumsy from get go.

Refer to Oscars excellent post below yours.

Modi has already told the IAF that the Rafale is nice, but India can not afford it.

He did?

 

[mehmeTcc]

Why don't you guys just go for Su-57 already? Is there anything resembling an analysis by IAF claiming these 4+ gen fighters were good at something compared to Su-57?

 

[xuxu1457]

20years pass，The system is too inefficient.

 

[Han Patriot]

20years pass，The system is too inefficient.

It will be another 10 years before they do anything. Buying LCA is good for their industry but it's really too obsolete. They are facing what we were facing in the 90s to early 2000s

 

[dbc]

India is unable to mass produce Tejas, so Saab, Dassault,LM or Boeing will be incentivized to build local capabilities with an order of jets + Tejas. We will have wait and see if those plans survive COVID.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

That was messed up too (OG's vs later entrants worming their way in...so we have MMRCA original vs MMRCA+ and MMRCA++ and whatever else). Trust me these defence honchos are friggin dumb and clumsy from get go.

Refer to Oscars excellent post below yours.



He did?

Maybe it was a minister, but in the end this is something where Modi has a final say.
That is where the single engine fighter competition started.
After that, the Indian opposition parties criticized alledged corruption in the original Rafale purchase. That is when MMRCA 2.0 allow for dual engine fighters.
Economics has not changed, so I still think it is a race between the F-16 and the Gripen.
If India was heavily favouring the F-16, they would have made a decision by now. There is no reason to wait, and Gripen would have been disqualified on non-availability.

It makes sense to buy a fighter that uses practically the same engine as the LCA Mk 2 and AMCA. It can also use the same weapons as Rafale, and India can qualify indigenous weapons easily. That is not possible with competition, where India has to pay the manufacturer.
This is due to the modern App based S/W architecture of Gripen.

 

[Nilgiri]

Maybe it was a minister, but in the end this is something where Modi has a final say.
That is where the single engine fighter competition started.
After that, the Indian opposition parties criticized alledged corruption in the original Rafale purchase. That is when MMRCA 2.0 allow for dual engine fighters.
Economics has not changed, so I still think it is a race between the F-16 and the Gripen.
If India was heavily favouring the F-16, they would have made a decision by now. There is no reason to wait, and Gripen would have been disqualified on non-availability.

We will see my friend. My popcorn reserves are full to the brim for matters more generally around the world.

 

[Tumba]

Maybe it was a minister, but in the end this is something where Modi has a final say.
That is where the single engine fighter competition started.
After that, the Indian opposition parties criticized alledged corruption in the original Rafale purchase. That is when MMRCA 2.0 allow for dual engine fighters.
Economics has not changed, so I still think it is a race between the F-16 and the Gripen.
If India was heavily favouring the F-16, they would have made a decision by now. There is no reason to wait, and Gripen would have been disqualified on non-availability.

It makes sense to buy a fighter that uses practically the same engine as the LCA Mk 2 and AMCA. It can also use the same weapons as Rafale, and India can qualify indigenous weapons easily. That is not possible with competition, where India has to pay the manufacturer.
This is due to the modern App based S/W architecture of Gripen.

final say is with IAF only, though Modi will try his best to get some discount.

And I reckon don't get confused by multiple news reports on Single Engine Fighter procurement.

Indian Govt has already initiated and set up all the required govt teams and process is going from more than an year.

As per plan by before 2023 all the necessary contracts will be signed with Indian private first having 49% share and foreign 51%.

First production model will be landing from abroad by end of 2023 and rest of manufacturing process started in India, India will start cranking of fighters by 2024 end or 2025.

All these conflicting news reports u are Getting from Indian media is just shows you the quality of Indian journalists,

most of these journos are arts graduates with the lowest IQ u can find and the media houses controlled by biggest pimp.

So first these art graduates find hard to understand what the military spokesman is saying These journos find it even hard to understand the basic differences between fighter planes.

 

[Secularindian]

India is unable to mass produce Tejas, so Saab, Dassault,LM or Boeing will be incentivized to build local capabilities with an order of jets + Tejas. We will have wait and see if those plans survive COVID.

India Mass Produced MKI's in 16 per year rate
Its Hilarious HAL is producing Aircraft Since 50 years

HAL no 38 in global defense firms Turnover Amount almost 3 Billion $ in 2019

https://www.business-standard.com/a...s-higher-growth-this-year-120040100071_1.html

Maybe it was a minister, but in the end this is something where Modi has a final say.
That is where the single engine fighter competition started.
After that, the Indian opposition parties criticized alledged corruption in the original Rafale purchase. That is when MMRCA 2.0 allow for dual engine fighters.
Economics has not changed, so I still think it is a race between the F-16 and the Gripen.
If India was heavily favouring the F-16, they would have made a decision by now. There is no reason to wait, and Gripen would have been disqualified on non-availability.

It makes sense to buy a fighter that uses practically the same engine as the LCA Mk 2 and AMCA. It can also use the same weapons as Rafale, and India can qualify indigenous weapons easily. That is not possible with competition, where India has to pay the manufacturer.
This is due to the modern App based S/W architecture of Gripen.

Well Problem Large Size Of Indian Armed Forces And Over Stretching Pension bill

Also CAPEX allocation Btw Navy ,Army ,Air force are under utilized

Out of Tri-cervices Only Indian Navy Is able Fully utilized in its Capex and lay out plan

As of Now Navy already commenced

Arihant class SSBN's
Scorpene Subs
Heavy Class Destroyers
Stealth ASW Corvette & Frigate's
Indigenous Aircraft carrier
Stealth Figrates
Stealth Corvettere's(Asuw)
Lease Of Another Nuclear Submarine from Russians
57 Navy Aircraft deal
S-5 class SSBN's
Indian Navy SSN programme(17 billion $)
Another Nuclear CBG group by 2030


If you Add these project alone you will around 70-80 billion $ in Next 10 years

So All who are thinking the Financial Aspect to this MMRCA deal Don't Know That IAF gets around 7 Billion $ for Capex Spending Every year Which they utilize only 30-40 %

 

[dbc]

India Mass Produced MKI's in 16 per year rate
Its Hilarious HAL is producing Aircraft Since 50 years

Hilarious indeed, how many of those mass produced aircrafts were made with carbon composites?
None! Mass production of Tejas is different from screw driver assembly from knock down kits or production of metal birds.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Hilarious indeed, how many of those mass produced aircrafts were made with carbon composites?

The most voluminous is the Dhruv with over 200 produced till date.
Research before you make statements.
Composites Div of HAL:

Aerospace Composites Division has carried out:
1. Manufacture of:

• Monolithic & sandwich construction structural parts for ALH, LCH, LCA and Cowlings for Ecureuil helicopter, France.
• Honeycomb Sandwich bonded structures, metal-to-metal bonded components.
• Composite components in Carbon, Kevlar & glass Prepreg.
• Dynamic components like Main Rotor Blade, Tail Rotor Blade, Hub plates, ARIS Spring. For ALH & LCH
• Door Assembly for ALH & LCH
• Co curing of composites parts
• Machining of composites parts

2. Design and Manufacture of :

• Composites Molding Tools
• Master Models for Tooling

3. Servicing of:

• Transmission components
• Structural components

https://hal-india.co.in/Product_Details.aspx?Mkey=54&lKey=&CKey=57
Here is the table with all the details.(This is outdated as it is from 1994 but the most comprehensive I could find)