Indian Air Force News & Discussions

[Kinetic]

Anyone else notice the differnce (sorry keep harping on about the same thing but it is getting more and more perplexing)

model:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xE...AAMTQ/BTZ5gijETgs/s1600/DSC00595_2-743791.JPG
delivered plane:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/TU1uceMreEI/AAAAAAAAMTo/u_5Wi678mlA/s1600/P1030203-777092.jpg

Ok we can see the a2a probe missing as in the model, which we have discussed with no real solid conclusion accepted, but we can also see what looks like a FLIR missing from the delivered plane but seen on the model (the turret mounted camera hanging on the bottom of the plane's nose) I noticed this on the vid of it arriving at Hindon but thought njothing of it, the model though seems to confirm my suspicion- vital Spec Op equipment is missing, it begs the question what else is missing we can't see??

WHAT IS GOING ON??

Yeah, i also noticed that. There is only one possibility, they will mount both the electro-optical pod and refueling probe when ever needed.

 

[Imran Khan]

you know guys its 100000000000000000000000000000000000th thread on c-130j .

 

[vikramaditya AC]

it think Fuel probe and optical pod can be fitted whenever they want...

BTW when will the other 5 be delivered.?

 

[Kinetic]

it think Fuel probe and optical pod can be fitted whenever they want...

BTW when will the other 5 be delivered.?

By the end of this year all the C-130J will be delivered.

 

[DMLA]

The EO pod and refuelling probe were removed from the flight to save of fuel (reduced drag).

 

[SekrutYakhni]

I am up for U.S.- India relationship!

I have a question though...The U.S. has the habit of protecting her assets/military equipment from known eyes. Will the U.S. station her crew on some air field?

I'll appreciate a positive reply.

 

[KS]

I am up for U.S.- India relationship!

I have a question though...The U.S. has the habit of protecting her assets/military equipment from known eyes. Will the U.S. station her crew on some air field?

I'll appreciate a positive reply.

I don't think India has signed EUMA with the US. Not sure though !

 

[vikramaditya AC]

I am up for U.S.- India relationship!

I have a question though...The U.S. has the habit of protecting her assets/military equipment from known eyes. Will the U.S. station her crew on some air field?

I'll appreciate a positive reply.

we have not signed any agrements wid them,
so we r independant..

and no foreign persons are allowed in air base.as US does wid other countries

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I am up for U.S.- India relationship!

I have a question though...The U.S. has the habit of protecting her assets/military equipment from known eyes. Will the U.S. station her crew on some air field?

I'll appreciate a positive reply.

Not likely.
First of all the acquisition of this aircraft is under a commercial sale-purchase contract. It is not under any MAP (Military Assistance Program). Secondly it is a non-weponised platform. Thirdly India has NOT signed CISMOA, therefore there is no US Administered equipment fitted on the aircraft. If you read up on the implications (pros/cons) of signing/not signing CISMOA as discussed in various threads on this forum, it will be amply clear.

LM will provide technical back up for integrating the aircraft and sub-systems (pallets, forklift trucks etc.) as provided for in the commercial contract, upto a contracted time-period. The USAF is not in this picture except to come and attend some functions (like induction etc), make the 'right noises', all under the benign gaze of the US Ambassador or some other diplomats. Which will be duly reported by the press.

BTW, this is not the first US aircraft inducted into IAF service. The C-119 Fairchild Packets were acquired in the early sixties, under similar terms. Those aircraft were soon modified by HAL in India and fitted with dorsal 'Jet-Pack' engine to boost their service ceiling for service in the Himalayas. The Americans were suitably impressed and took some tips to similarly modify their Packets with them.

 

[Imran Khan]

there is no US personals there because of

India inducts first C-130J, but without critical equipment



| IANS – Sat, Feb 5 9:36 PM IST



Hindon (Ghaziabad), Feb 5 (IANS) The Indian Air Force (IAF) Saturday inducted an American-made C-130J-30 Super Hercules airlifter to boost its special operations capability, but the aircraft is without critical equipment as India has not signed a crucial pact with the US for communications inter-operability.

The aircraft, first of the six that India ordered from the US for $950 million in 2008, was formally handed over to Group Captain Tejbir Singh, the first commanding officer of IAF's newly-created 77 Squadron, by Defence Minister A.K. Antony here.

The Lockheed Martin-manufactured C-130J is the first military aircraft inducted by India from the US through the foreign military sales routes in decades. The other five aircraft are scheduled for delivery one after the other by the end of this year.

The plane was flown by an IAF crew to India from Lockheed Martin's manufacturing facility at Marietta in Georgia, US. The new squadron will be nicknamed as Veiled Vipers with a motto 'strike to kill'.

Replying to a question about the equipment on the aircraft with India not signing the Communications Interoperability and Security Memoradum of Agreement (CISMOA) with the US, Antony said the government would not buy any equipment for its armed forces 'with strings attached' to it. 'Our air force can operate them,' he said.

IAF chief Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik said the pact was for communicating with American platforms and not signing it would not make much difference. 'We have our own communication system and yes, we will be integrating them on the aircraft. They are already being made and they will be put on the aircraft,' he added.

At the induction ceremony attended by US Ambassador to India Timothy J Roemer and US Air Force (USAF) chief General Norton A. Schwartz, Antony said it was a red letter day for the IAF and the C-130J would 'add more muscle' to the air force to meet its growing mandate.

'It is a highly useful platform that operates multiple capabilities. It is expected to take the joint war-fighting capabilities of the Indian armed forces to further heights. I am sure IAF will utilise this machine to its full potential,' he said.

Noting that the aircraft was 'the best in its class', Antony said India was today on a steady and sustained path of economic growth that brought with it regional and global obligations.

'We have already fulfilled our international commitments in a manner befitting our stature. We have tirelessly strived for peace and stability in our immediate and extended neighbourhood. India has always been a strong votary of building an atmosphere of trust and cooperation between the countries of the region,' he said.

'However, we also believe a credible and strong armed forces are also essential in maintaining peace and stability. The government stands fully committed to provide the latest and best equipment to our armed forces. Today's induction is one such instance. We will not spare anything to ensure the IAF continues to maintain its qualitative edge at all times,' he added.

Naik, in his address, said the most potent and versatile aricraft's induction into the IAF inventory was a milestone in the air force's modernisation plans set in motion already to take it on the path of transformation to meet its future challenges.

He said future operations would be carried out at a high tempo enabled by a plethora of networked sensors and dominated by aerospace capabilities.

'The C-130J fills a very important slot in this matrix. It adds an exciting new dynamism to the IAF by bringing in enhanced capability in range, payload, versatility and special operations to cover the entire spectrum of air mobility missions. We have doctrinally prepared to deploy such platforms in operations for quite sometime,' Naik added.

About the Indian special forces being able to operate on the aircraft, he said since the aircraft had just arrived, they would need to train on the platform first.

The aircraft, with precision low-level flying, airdrops, and landing in blackout conditions capabilities, has a maximum cruise speed of 355 knots or 660 kmph. The maximum takeoff weight is 75,390 kg and it can carry a maximum payload of 21,770 kg. The four-engine turboprop plane can be used for troop deployment, special operations, air-to-air refuelling, disaster relief, and humanitarian aid operations.

India inducts first C-130J, but without critical equipment

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I don't think India has signed EUMA with the US. Not sure though !

India has not signed CISMOA.
EUMA (End User Monitoring Agreement) is something different; it is used to ensure that the military equipment sold/transferred is used by the contracted purchaser and not transferred to some other third party. That is a norm in sale/purchase of military equipment. The outline/specific clauses may vary, but that is the clear intention.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Originally Posted by Capt.Popeye
Re: the underlined part of the statement,
It applies only to the 21st century, i.e. present time.
Post Independence, it was the C-119 "Packet"- Flying Boxcar (first large transport).
Pre Independence, the C-47 Dakota (the first transport?), the Vultee Vengeance etc (first dive bomber).
There were a few others as well. The B-24 Liberator (the first heavy bomber), a handful of C-46 Commando (the first ELINT), the T-6 Harvard/Texan (the first advanced trainer).
All fixed wing aircraft.

Originally Posted by Kinetic
Thanks for the info. Did we bought them directly from USA? And I think all of these aircrafts bought in early decades. Before C-130J which fixed wing aircraft we last bought from US.? Thanks in advance.

The last fixed wing aircraft directly bought from USA was the C-119 and C-46 Commando in 1962-63. The others were used/inherited by the RIAF. The B-24 Liberators were based in India during WW 2 by the USAAF. After the war, they were abandoned in India and many were actually damaged/destroyed to make them unusable. When the IAF was formed, it felt the need to have a bomber fleet. Since no aircraft was on offer to India, these hulks were salvaged, cannibalised and made operational. Which nobody thought was possible. They served as bombers, later as MR aircraft.
There was another American aircraft with the the IAF in service; the Lockheed L-1049 Super Constellation. This was a long range passenger aircraft with Air India. When Air India bought the Boeing 707 jets (the first Asian airline to go jet), these aircraft in turn got handed over to the IAF and got modded to serve as LRMR and Freighter aircraft. Finally they were handed over in turn to the IN and flown till final retirement. They were the predecessors of the Tu-142 LRMR aircraft of the IN.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Not likely.
First of all the acquisition of this aircraft is under a commercial sale-purchase contract. It is not under any MAP (Military Assistance Program). Secondly it is a non-weponised platform. Thirdly India has NOT signed CISMOA, therefore there is no US Administered equipment fitted on the aircraft. If you read up on the implications (pros/cons) of signing/not signing CISMOA as discussed in various threads on this forum, it will be amply clear.

LM will provide technical back up for integrating the aircraft and sub-systems (pallets, forklift trucks etc.) as provided for in the commercial contract, upto a contracted time-period. The USAF is not in this picture except to come and attend some functions (like induction etc), make the 'right noises', all under the benign gaze of the US Ambassador or some other diplomats. Which will be duly reported by the press.

BTW, this is not the first US aircraft inducted into IAF service. The C-119 Fairchild Packets were acquired in the early sixties, under similar terms. Those aircraft were soon modified by HAL in India and fitted with dorsal 'Jet-Pack' engine to boost their service ceiling for service in the Himalayas. The Americans were suitably impressed and took some tips to similarly modify their Packets with them.

So, what if India, as a matter of fact any country, wants to fit some weapons on the aircraft etc Will you need some sort of permission from the U.S. or?

 

[Water Car Engineer]

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Interesting write-up from some magazine.
The last "blurb" about previous American aircraft with the IAF is a little off the mark. The bomber was the Consolidated B-24 Liberator, the helicopters were the Bell 47G (the first IAF chopper) and Sikorsky S-55. The last aircraft mentioned should be the Lockheed L-1049 "Super Connie".