What's new

Indian AF Transport Program Hits Hurdle

CONNAN

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
3,381
Reaction score
0
Country
India
Location
United States
NEW DELHI — A reassessment of Air Force priorities has jeopardized India's first effort to produce military aircraft in the domestic private sector.

The US $3.5 billion program would have replaced aging Avro transport aircraft, a tender for which was issued in 2013, but new Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar has urged that weapon purchases be prioritized because major hikes in defense spending are not expected in the near future, said a Defence Ministry source.

The government decided in July 2014 that the tender should be reserved for domestic private sector companies as production partners and state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) was excluded from the program. Only Airbus Defence and Space, proposing the C-295 in a tie up with domestic private sector major Tata Advanced Systems, has filed a bid for the program.

The Avro replacement tender invites foreign vendors to identify an Indian private sector partner, supply 16 aircraft made abroad and manufacture 40 at a facility set up in India with the local partner.

Ukraine's Antonov Design Bureau, which had earlier evinced interest in the program, did not file a bid because the company cannot transfer technology as the majority of the systems are sourced from Russia's Voronezh Aircraft Production Association. Moscow has stopped export of these technologies to the Ukrainian company in the wake of political developments there, according to a Defence Ministry source.

"Airbus had tied up with [Tata] for the Avro tender with the hope that they would together draw major plans to join hands in the aero market, including joint production of a variety of helicopters" said an executive of the Tata group. "All future plans in the aerospace sector are now put on the shelf again," the executive added.

As the Air Force reassesses its needs, the Avro replacement is likely to be given a low priority and the project may be put on hold, the MoD source added.

No Air Force official would publicly comment on the priority list under preparation, but an Air Force source said one reason that buying aircraft to replace the Avros could be viewed as a low priority is because India is negotiating joint production and development of medium transport aircraft with Russia's United Aircraft Corp. (UAC). It has also purchased US transports.

"India has procured the US-made C-17s and C-130Js to satisfy its transport requirements. Although these aircraft come under the heavy-lift category, for now they have reduced the operational exigency of procuring new transport aircraft, which may also be why India has been dragging its feet on the Airbus C-295 and transport aircraft program," said another Air Force officer.

In addition to the US transport planes, the Indian Air Force uses Russian-made AN-32s and IL-76s. Russia's UAC and India's HAL have established the Multirole Transport Aircraft Ltd. as a joint venture for the proposed medium transport aircraft, but a final production agreement has not been signed.

The program envisages production of a 20-ton cargo plane capable of ferrying 80 troops together with infantry fighting vehicles

Indian AF Transport Program Hits Hurdle
 
.
@Abingdonboy

We just talked about this yesterday and here we have the next big downer. So much for fast tracking and decisiveness. :tsk:
 
.
What a surprise!! I mean is there any defence purchase by India that didnt hit any hurdle?
 
.
@Abingdonboy

We just talked about this yesterday and here we have the next big downer. So much for fast tracking and decisiveness. :tsk:
Wh as the hell . I don't understand can you break it up a bit ? Are we going for re tender again ? due to single vendor situation ?

:(
 
.
Wh as the hell . I don't understand can you break it up a bit ? Are we going for re tender again ? due to single vendor situation ?

:(

No, it's more likely that the deal gets scrapped completelly. Minister Parrikar stated earlier if there is a need to replace the Avros at all, when the MTA is coming in the mid term. Now he seems to force the IAF to prioritise their needed procurements, which puts the Avro replacement pretty low at the list and the deal can be put "on hold" to say it politely. So after LUH, SSK now the Avro replacement were pushed by the government into delays if not worse and the forces needs to deal with the situation in the meantime on their own. The navy has to wait longer for SSKs, the Air Force needs to keep using other transporters until MTA arrives, while the Army (especially in the high altitude operations) still will be dependent on decades old Cheetah helicopters.
 
.
@Abingdonboy

We just talked about this yesterday and here we have the next big downer. So much for fast tracking and decisiveness. :tsk:

I agree this is a MASSIVE shame especially considering this deal was about much more than just buying the Avro's replacement. This was meant to bring huge industrial benefits for the private sector.

No, it's more likely that the deal gets scrapped completelly. Minister Parrikar stated earlier if there is a need to replace the Avros at all, when the MTA is coming in the mid term. Now he seems to force the IAF to prioritise their needed procurements, which puts the Avro replacement pretty low at the list and the deal can be put "on hold" to say it politely. So after LUH, SSK now the Avro replacement were pushed by the government into delays if not worse and the forces needs to deal with the situation in the meantime on their own. The navy has to wait longer for SSKs, the Air Force needs to keep using other transporters until MTA arrives, while the Army (especially in the high altitude operations) still will be dependent on decades old Cheetah helicopters.
Hmm @sancho, whilst I am disappointed the rationale used is logical- prioritise expenditure. The IAF know what their priorities are and thus if they are placing the Rafale and helos (Apache and Chinook) above this deal then fair enough. The Avros are old but not exactly falling out of the sky (whilst the Migs are ).

Budgets aren't infinite. Priorities matter. At least the MoD is allowing the forces to decide their own priorities and not dictating to them.


Aside from that the MTA was never intended (originally ) as a replacement for the Avros but for the An-132s but let's see how things go. If the Avro replacement is going to be lumped together with the MTA then india needs to order FAR more than the currently planned 45 which I have always felt was too small a figure considering there are some 100+ An-132s in service and the IAF's requirements are only going to GROW in the long term ). MTA orders in this case really need to be more than 150.
 
.
I agree this is a MASSIVE shame especially considering this deal was about much more than just buying the Avro's replacement. This was meant to bring huge industrial benefits for the private sector.


Hmm @sancho, whilst I am disappointed the rationale used is logical- prioritise expenditure. The IAF know what their priorities are and thus if they are placing the Rafale and helos (Apache and Chinook) above this deal then fair enough. The Avros are old but not exactly falling out of the sky (whilst the Migs are ).

Budgets aren't infinite. Priorities matter. At least the MoD is allowing the forces to decide their own priorities and not dictating to them.


Aside from that the MTA was never intended (originally ) as a replacement for the Avros but for the An-132s but let's see how things go. If the Avro replacement is going to be lumped together with the MTA then india needs to order FAR more than the currently planned 45 which I have always felt was too small a figure considering there are some 100+ An-132s in service and the IAF's requirements are only going to GROW in the long term ). MTA orders in this case really need to be more than 150.

We should combine Avor replacement & MTA program,no sense in ordering just 40 Aircraft.Also by building these planes in such large numbers we will learn a lot & perhaps this can kick-start our own domestic Industry
 
.
Hmm @sancho, whilst I am disappointed the rationale used is logical- prioritise expenditure. The IAF know what their priorities are and thus if they are placing the Rafale and helos (Apache and Chinook) above this deal then fair enough. The Avros are old but not exactly falling out of the sky (whilst the Migs are ).

Well if they need to prioritise, the Apache would be the first deal that needs to be canceled and leasing additional Mi 26T2s would surely be cheaper than buying Chinooks too, especially since both doesn't add the industrial advantages that you pointed out for the Avro replacement and at the moment, I wouldn't bet on Parrikar buying the Rafale at the moment anyway.

If the Avro replacement is going to be lumped together with the MTA then india needs to order FAR more than the currently planned 45

Which however should be costlier to procure and to operate than an AN32 / C295 class aircraft, especially because of the jet engines and the fuel consumption compared to smaller turbo props. Not sure if Parrikar is ready to take these costs or if he just tries to divert the Avro replacement for a few years, it certainly makes India looks bad again for foreign vendors.
 
.
No, it's more likely that the deal gets scrapped completelly. Minister Parrikar stated earlier if there is a need to replace the Avros at all, when the MTA is coming in the mid term. Now he seems to force the IAF to prioritise their needed procurements, which puts the Avro replacement pretty low at the list and the deal can be put "on hold" to say it politely. So after LUH, SSK now the Avro replacement were pushed by the government into delays if not worse and the forces needs to deal with the situation in the meantime on their own. The navy has to wait longer for SSKs, the Air Force needs to keep using other transporters until MTA arrives, while the Army (especially in the high altitude operations) still will be dependent on decades old Cheetah helicopters.

Thanks man sancho . I think for urgent requirements like few avro replacement we need to keep our of making in India . And Russia indo MTA is not even signed I guess . better to go with buy

Thanks mam sancho . I think for urgent requirements like few avro replacement we need to keep our of making in India . And Russia indo MTA is not even signed I guess . better to go with buy
 
.
Embraer KC-390

we always had good relations with Brazil and Embrare so how about getting KC 390 and The Brazilian Air Force has already placed formal orders for the purchase of 28 KC-390s worth over USD3.3 billion.could be good option for IAF in future.

images


afp-brazils-embraer-unveils-new-kc-390-military-transport.jpg
 
.
THANK GOD FOR MANOHAR PARIKAR. :tup:

IAF has 56 Avro's and they have hardly used it and god knows why they were purchased in the first place.

These planes have flow only around 350 hours/annum i.e. less than 30 Hours a Month :cheesy: (1 hr per DAY !!!!!).

They have a residual life of around 80,000 hours :lol: ....... which means at the current rate of use, they can be flown for almost 230 YEAR :lol:

All they need is an upgrade. Shame on IAF for trying to FOOL the Indian public and the GoI.


IF IAF want more Heavy Lift cargo aircraft's let them state it clearly and justify its purchase demonstrate NEED. Somebody needs to be cout marshalled over this nonsense.


If IAF finds these Aircraft a Burden/Useless let them hand over the Aircrafts to the Indian Navy. These can then be retro-fitted and used for Surveillance and associated roles. It has a range of about 2000 KM. and can stay in the air for at least 4 hours, more if it has Air2Air refuelling.
 
.
Noob question what is the need for both AN 32 and AVROs cant we just use An32s and done with the ARVOs
 
.
we always had good relations with Brazil and Embrare so how about getting KC 390

We have good political relations, but failed to use it to deepen the defence ties too and wasted a lot of potential (like a co-development on that aircraft). The KC390 is a beauty with huge potential on the export market, another great show of Embraers capabilities, but in the same class as the MTA and a class above the Avros, so not a choice for us.

Noob question what is the need for both AN 32 and AVROs cant we just use An32s and done with the ARVOs

It's not a one on one replacement, since IAF's aims are not the same anymore as they were in the past. Any replacement transporter is more capable than the older once.

C17 > IL76
MTA > AN32
C295W > Avro

The C295W is actually in the same class as the AN32 and would do whatever the Avro did + reach into the AN 32 roles, but more cost-effective than the MTA would do with lighter loads around 10t. For any transport with higher weight or size the MTA then would be the main choice for the future.
 
. .
Long wait for Airbus to bag replacement contract for IAF's Avros

Government in a dilemma over awarding contract as Airbus is the sole bidder for the over Rs 10,000 crore contract

The wait is getting longer for Airbus, the European defence and aerospace aircraft major, to bag the over Rs 10,000 crore contract from Indian Air Force (IAF) for supply of 56 transport aircraft, which is a replacement for the ageing fleet of Avro transport aircraft.

Airbus along with Tata Advanced Systems Limited (TASL) was the sole bidder for this contract, which was floated by IAF in May 2013.
The government is in a dilemma over awarding the contract to Airbus as no other bidder had shown interest...

...The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), according to a senior IAF official, has met twice, but no call has been taken on the matter yet. "A third meeting of DAC is expected to take place soon," the official said....

...On the need for a small transport aircraft, a retired IAF official said, "For small tasks such as flood relief you don't need a big transport aircraft as it is a waste of resources as is happening today. The C295 fits well for minor operations. Any re-tendering will be a major set-back at this juncture and will finally have to involve the HAL."

Long wait for Airbus to bag replacement contract for IAFs Avro fleet | Business Standard News
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom