Indian Acquisition of Russian Akula

[bones20]

Just wondering .........will the Akula submarine be for research purpose or will it be operational under lease ???????

Reverse Engineer and training.

 

[Chanakyaa]

production under license falls under selling. example; india will be building all 6 scorpenes in india, under french ASSISTANCE. Now does that mean that france haven't sold the submarines to india???????

licensed production is different from indegenous development

Wait.

Licensed Production = Selling = Agreed.
Licennsed Production of Subs = Agreed
Licensed Production of Nuclear Subs = Disagreed . So NO Selling.

France wont be Selling a Nuclear Sub.
You will hear the words "coperation" , assistance" . guidance" ... but NO Selling. .. This is my Nuclear Sub give me 5 Bill $$, Sub is urs.. and No Where in the World is a Licensed Production of Nuclear Subs.

2021 is the year Brazil expects to have its first nuclear powered submarine. The warship is to be built in the country with French cooperation and equipped with conventional weapons, confirmed Defense minister Nelson Jobim, who underlined the dissuasion potential of such a weapon recalling the Falkland Islands conflict of 1982.

The agreement covers the construction of four conventional submarines and a comprehensive technology transfer program to assist Brazil in the construction of the non-nuclear portion of its first nuclear-powered submarine.

We will build the nuclear submarine together. Brazil will be responsible for the conventional part of the project,” he said.

Reporting from Sao Paulo, Brazil — French President Nicolas Sarkozy is expected to sign an arms deal during his upcoming visit to Brazil that could help this country build Latin America's first nuclear-propelled submarine, the government's official news agency said Saturday.

 

[sancho]

Contrary to general belief, selling or buying of nuclear submarines is not forbidden. There are no international treaties which prohibit trade in nuclear powered submarines. However, as part of the MTCR sale of nuclear powered subs capable of firing ballistic/cruise missile of more than 300 km is forbidden. That is why we had to build our own SSBN while we could lease an Akula-II (with option of buying it out after 10 yrs of lease).

Is it? I thought it is forbidden through the NPT to transfer nuclear arms, or techs to other nations. So vessels with a nuclear propulsion must fall into it too or?

i think the sale of nuclear submarines is allowed . otherwise how can brazil buy a nuclear submarine from france ?????????

here is the link

Confirmed: Agreement with France Includes the Brazilian Nuclear Submarine

Like XiNiX said, France is not selling an nuclear sub, but the hull and all necessary techs. The nuclear propulsion itself will be indigenous developed in Brazil, but France will assist there too. Pretty much the same stratigic partnership like India and Russia have and that's also why I thought we could do the same with their Graney class SSGNs.

 

[Screaming Skull]

Is it? I thought it is forbidden through the NPT to transfer nuclear arms, or techs to other nations. So vessels with a nuclear propulsion must fall into it too or?

Yes selling of certain critical tech for nuclear reactors to non-NPT signatories is prohibited through NPT. But where is Russia selling the tech for the reactor of the Nerpa sub? They are only selling us the sub as it is. This is believed to be a drawback of the NPT in the sense that it does not cover nuclear powered submarines. So, any country is within its right to buy or sell nuclear submarines as long as these countries are not proliferating in nuclear ‘TECHNOLOGIES’. But, like I mentioned before the MTCR puts a cap on the kind of missiles an exported nuclear sub will be allowed to carry. India can never use the imported Nerpa sub to launch any missiles with over 300 km range. So even in the future if India wishes to have an SSGN or SSN capable of firing cruise missiles of over 300 km range, they will have to be built indigenously (just like the Arihant).

 

[sancho]

Yes selling of certain critical tech for nuclear reactors to non-NPT signatories is prohibited through NPT. But where is Russia selling the tech for the reactor of the Nerpa sub? They are only selling us the sub as it is. This is believed to be a drawback of the NPT in the sense that it does not cover nuclear powered submarines. So, any country is within its right to buy or sell nuclear submarines as long as these countries are not proliferating in nuclear ‘TECHNOLOGIES’. But, like I mentioned before the MTCR puts a cap on the kind of missiles an exported nuclear sub will be allowed to carry. India can never use the imported Nerpa sub to launch any missiles with over 300 km range. So even in the future if India wishes to have an SSGN or SSN capable of firing cruise missiles of over 300 km range, they will have to be built indigenously (just like the Arihant).

Agree! You don't need the tech, or a missile to build a dirty bomb, only a bit nuclear material! Imo this loophole makes the whole NPT/MTCR worthless, if China, or Russia could sell a nuclear vehicle legally to Iran for example, there should be no doubt that it will benefit their nuclear developments too.

 

[Choppers]

Akula nuclear submarine to be delivered to India by May
Vinay Shukla STAFF WRITER 16:59 HRS IST

Moscow, Feb 18 (PTI) Indian Navy will regain its underwater warfare nuclear capability in the next 60-days with the Russians assuring that the Akula-II class attack submarine the Nerpa would be delivered by mid-May.

The assurance that the nuclear submarine would be delivered "strictly on schedule" was given by top Russian shipbuilding officials to the Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, who is to visit New Delhi on a state visit next month.

Nerpa has been handed over to the Russian Navy for its sea trials.

"The 518th project, the Nerpa submarine is currently completing trials in the Pacific basin. We believe that we will be able to deliver it on time, according to agreed schedule," Chief of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Roman Trotsenko told Putin at today's meeting

 

[prithwidw]

Akula nuclear submarine to be delivered to India by May
Vinay Shukla STAFF WRITER 16:59 HRS IST

Moscow, Feb 18 (PTI) Indian Navy will regain its underwater warfare nuclear capability in the next 60-days with the Russians assuring that the Akula-II class attack submarine the Nerpa would be delivered by mid-May.

The assurance that the nuclear submarine would be delivered "strictly on schedule" was given by top Russian shipbuilding officials to the Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, who is to visit New Delhi on a state visit next month.

Nerpa has been handed over to the Russian Navy for its sea trials.

"The 518th project, the Nerpa submarine is currently completing trials in the Pacific basin. We believe that we will be able to deliver it on time, according to agreed schedule," Chief of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Roman Trotsenko told Putin at today's meeting

Is it coming armed with nuclear missiles or we have to fit it into that?

 

[sancho]

Is it coming armed with nuclear missiles or we have to fit it into that?

You are mistaken, it is an attack sub with a nuclear propulsion (SSN), not a sub with nuclear missiles (SSBN). The sale of missiles with a range over 300Km are prohibited under international law anyway!

The Akula class subs has only torpedos and no cruise missiles, IN will use it mainly to train crews for indigenous SSBNs and SSNs.

 

[DMLA]

If required, it can be used to fire cruise missiles though. It has 4 650 mm torpedo tubes which can be used for that purpose. Klub-S and Nirbhay (whenever it comes in service) are available options (12 can be carried in total if i am not mistaken). It is likely as India is not known to be using 650 mm torpedos on its current submarines (none have the capability).

 

[sancho]

If required, it can be used to fire cruise missiles though. It has 4 650 mm torpedo tubes which can be used for that purpose. Klub-S and Nirbhay (whenever it comes in service) are available options (12 can be carried in total if i am not mistaken). It is likely as India is not known to be using 650 mm torpedos on its current submarines (none have the capability).

Could be, because we also use Klub missiles from 2of the Kilo class subs, but I guess IN will focus on cruise missile capability with Brahmos in the next sub procurement and indigenous SSNs. Russia already has offered an Amur class sub with the capability to carry Brahmos, IN asks the German HDW and the French DCNS for this capability too. U214 with Brahmos would be a damn good sub!

 

[DMLA]

U214 with Brahmos would be a damn good sub

Would be dream come true! They did have talks at defence expo this year. Hopefully IN will go for the U-boats this time!

 

[Chanakyaa]

As germans have cancelled the deal with pakistanis, its our chance to get this super silent killer.

 

[jha]

INS Chakra nearing completion trials, delivery in June


The trial of Indian Navy’s Akula-II class nuclear attack submarine are nearing completion according to Russian shipbuilders, paving the way for its leasing to India on schedule next month.

“We are now completing the state trials of the nuclear submarine the Nerpa in the Far East. So far everything is moving as per schedule,” CEO of state-owned United Shipbuilding Corporation Roman Trotsenko told Prime Minister Vladimir Putin at their meeting in the Black Sea resort of Sochi.

The Nerpa being acquired by Indian Navy in USD 650 million 10 year lease deal has been christened INS Chakra and would become the first advanced nuclear submarine of the Indian Navy after its induction.

The Indian Navy had leased a Soviet nuclear submarine in late 80’s which was returned to Moscow.

Nerpa was initially scheduled to be delivered in 2009, but its induction was delayed as it was hit by an accident in November 2008 while on factory trial sailing in the Sea of Japan.

Twenty members of the technical staff were killed and 21 poisoned due to accidental release of toxic Freon gas from the fire suppression system in their sleeping quarters, a sailor was detained for alleged tempering of temperature gauge.

Since then Prime Minister Vladmir Putin, who personally flew to the highly indebted Komsomolsk-on-Amur shipyard last May and released the funds for completion of the project. Putin has been personally supervising the delivery of the sub.

An Indian Naval crew is to do joint sailing with the Russian crew before taking the delivery of the submarine.

INS Chakra nearing completion trials, delivery in June idrw.org

 

[flanker30]

i heard this coming in may and india will purchase it after 10 yrs

 

[jha]

^^^ there is an option to purchase these...nowhere it is said that INDIA will purchase it.